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Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: shibafu on August 26, 2016, 12:41:34 PM

Title: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: shibafu on August 26, 2016, 12:41:34 PM
From the Swiss Bianco newsletter (http://swissbianco.ca/Newsletter/SwissBianco_NL_2016_3.htm):

"The latest news from Switzerland is that the current tough economic conditions forced Victorinox management to stop pursuing development and production of the best possible SAK and to limit themselves to basic models and colors. As a result, none of the Swiss Bianco special models and colors will be produced any longer. There is a short window of opportunity for collectors to purchase the pieces we still have in stock, as once they are gone, that's it!

In the recent runs from Victorinox we observed higher than usual rate of quality issues, such as anodizing damage, so it seems that the economic issues also had impact on the level of quality control. We are thankful to Mr. Elsener and Victorinox for the past co-operation with us and hoping that this iconic company will be able to weather the storm."


Thoughts?
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 26, 2016, 12:53:13 PM
 :(
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: jaya_man on August 26, 2016, 12:58:09 PM



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Ron Who on August 26, 2016, 01:03:17 PM
I've never seen a Swiss Bianco in the Netherlands, so it doesn't matter much to me. Good news for other modders, though.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Grass on August 26, 2016, 01:03:32 PM
Reads like a passive aggressive swipe at Victorinox... and I cannot gauge whether it is bitterness, legitimate or somewhere in between. What it means?
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Sea Monster on August 26, 2016, 01:05:18 PM
Quote
In the recent runs from Victorinox we observed higher than usual rate of quality issues, such as anodizing damage, so it seems that the economic issues also had impact on the level of quality control.

Comes off a little...ungracious?

A little "I slept with your brother" called over the shoulder as you leave the resturaunt after being dumped...



Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: dks on August 26, 2016, 01:14:48 PM
"to limit themselves to basic models and colors"    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

We have had more, widely available, coloured Alox models in the past year than in the past 50.....

Wasn't it last year that Victorinox was saying that it will not produce any more coloured alox?..



Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 26, 2016, 01:15:46 PM
I've never seen a Swiss Bianco in the Netherlands, so it doesn't matter much to me. Good news for other modders, though.

I have some, ordered them from Swiss Bianco Canada on eBay. Very reasonable shipping costs, Canada-Netherlands door to door in only 4 business days and Swiss Bianco Canada was even kind enough to value them at 21 dollars on the customs form so I didn't have to pay import taxes  8)
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: shibafu on August 26, 2016, 01:18:30 PM
It does have a hint of sour grapes about it.  When he says "current tough economic conditions forced Victorinox management to stop pursuing development and production of the best possible SAK," I did wonder if it really just means Victorinox management have made a commercial decision to stop giving him the special deal he's had, that they've never done for anyone else.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: kkokkolis on August 26, 2016, 02:21:19 PM
Reads like a passive aggressive swipe at Victorinox... and I cannot gauge whether it is bitterness, legitimate or somewhere in between. What it means?


That's what I thought. They should be grateful to stand in the heavy shadow of Victorinox. Victorinox will still be here when SB will long have been gone. I don't respect whoever doesn't respect the Elsener legacy.


Aἰδώς Ἀργεῖοι. Shame Argives!
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: SAK Guy on August 26, 2016, 02:55:46 PM
I have already seen questions asked (on another forum) about Vics quality.... :facepalm:  If there was a chance for SB to get future models...that quality comment will probably be the final nail in their coffin.    :twak:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Poncho65 on August 26, 2016, 04:17:06 PM
I think he should have just let it be and keep it short and sweet and not took a jab at the hand that has been feeding him for so many years ???

But I have never bought anything from him anyways so I guess it doesn't really matter to me anyways :shrug:

Sorry for all the people that buy stuff from him but I think Vic saw the opportunity to make money for themselves and gave him the boot :whistle:

That was not good for him but good business (they were basically competing for each others business) :think:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Poncho65 on August 26, 2016, 04:18:41 PM
I have already seen questions asked (on another forum) about Vics quality.... :facepalm:  If there was a chance for SB to get future models...that quality comment will probably be the final nail in their coffin.    :twak:

I agree about the quality comment and don't think personally that there has been any slip in their QC :shrug:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Aloha on August 26, 2016, 04:22:49 PM
Quote
In the recent runs from Victorinox we observed higher than usual rate of quality issues, such as anodizing damage, so it seems that the economic issues also had impact on the level of quality control.

Comes off a little...ungracious?

A little "I slept with your brother" called over the shoulder as you leave the resturaunt after being dumped...

^^^ this

Best possible SAK to me was never related to color IMO  :think:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: cbl51 on August 26, 2016, 07:00:00 PM
It does have a hint of sour grapes about it.  When he says "current tough economic conditions forced Victorinox management to stop pursuing development and production of the best possible SAK," I did wonder if it really just means Victorinox management have made a commercial decision to stop giving him the special deal he's had, that they've never done for anyone else.

I think you hit the nail right on the head!!!

I for one have never quite understood the draw of a "special" color SAK at three times the price of a "regular" factory SAK. But then I don't understand paying many thousands of dollars for a car then scrapping the wheels and other things for 'custom' wheels and things.

I think Roger is showing a bit of butt hurt and sour grapes that for whatever reason Victoronox has made a choice to stop dealing with him. Whatever. Swissbianco is a tiny tiny drop in the bucket of the business that Victorinox does on an international scale. This is THE largest knife company in the entire world, making many millions of units for sale every year. Maybe the tight international economy has made it not with their while to deal with the tiny independent dealers like Roger, so Roger gets cancelled. Oh well, that's business.

If times are hard, I do see Victorinox maybe cutting down the model line of some of the least popular models. But I don't see Mr. Elsner cutting the quality of his families business that has been a hallmark of quality for well over a century. Maybe Roger will have to get a job?
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: ducttapetech on August 26, 2016, 07:12:07 PM
I have already seen questions asked (on another forum) about Vics quality.... :facepalm:  If there was a chance for SB to get future models...that quality comment will probably be the final nail in their coffin.    :twak:

I agree about the quality comment and don't think personally that there has been any slip in their QC :shrug:
Yes and no. While Vics is top notch, they quality has dropped some what. It is still better than most. I do agree with what Sak Guy said and there comments put the last nail in there coffin. Good. No Alox should cost that much. I used to talk to Roger all the time.......you know what, I will keep that to myself. If you dig up the past, all you get is dirty. I wished he went with his FSB Neck Angels and ran with that. Those where some sweet blades. Anyways, I do feel sorry for the peeps who bought them. But I hope Vic does it from here on out and should be able to do it cheaper with no middle man driving up the cost.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Chako on August 26, 2016, 07:17:11 PM
Me, I am indifferent. Although I do have a few of his pieces in my collection, I always found him to be a bear to deal with personally. Then that other member here took things in his  hands and I heard customer satisfaction went up...but by that time, I was soured with the whole operation and never bought again..
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: kaput on August 26, 2016, 08:24:13 PM
Huh. Interesting. I think I'd have to probably think that there is some truth to every angle expressed in this thread and Swiss Bs letter too (with a definite dose of sour grapes).
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: twiliter on August 26, 2016, 08:29:15 PM
Unfortunate...

I was hoping to see some interesting Pioneer X variations from +B.

Also hearing that Vic is struggling, not good...

Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Captain Howdy on August 26, 2016, 09:56:08 PM
The peices are all coming together now. I was over on another knife forum a few days ago and someone had asked Rodger about a possible future run of electrician plus'. He commented back with:

"thanks for the suggestion, victorinox does not work on the quest of the best swiss knife anymore and therefore such a model will not be made anytime soon. we work on a better alternative and in time we will see what variations we will offer."

I thought his response was alittle odd.  :think:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: shibafu on August 26, 2016, 09:57:45 PM
Also hearing that Vic is struggling, not good...

Not good if there's any truth in it.  Which is a big "if".
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: cbl51 on August 26, 2016, 10:10:48 PM
Also hearing that Vic is struggling, not good...

Not good if there's any truth in it.  Which is a big "if".

I'd rate it as a really big 'if'.

Sour grapes can greatly exaggerate facts.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: SAK Guy on August 26, 2016, 10:13:08 PM
The peices are all coming together now. I was over on another knife forum a few days ago and someone had asked Rodger about a possible future run of electrician plus'. He commented back with:

"thanks for the suggestion, victorinox does not work on the quest of the best swiss knife anymore and therefore such a model will not be made anytime soon. we work on a better alternative and in time we will see what variations we will offer."

I thought his response was alittle odd.  :think:

OMG!!!!  I hope he's not moving to Swiza!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :facepalm:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: twiliter on August 26, 2016, 10:14:03 PM
Also hearing that Vic is struggling, not good...

Not good if there's any truth in it.  Which is a big "if".

I hope it's not true, hard to believe that about a company that came out with such nice products so recently.

Time will tell, fingers crossed. I know I'm doing my part at least, my investment is significant!  :ahhh
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Captain Howdy on August 26, 2016, 10:21:32 PM
The peices are all coming together now. I was over on another knife forum a few days ago and someone had asked Rodger about a possible future run of electrician plus'. He commented back with:

"thanks for the suggestion, victorinox does not work on the quest of the best swiss knife anymore and therefore such a model will not be made anytime soon. we work on a better alternative and in time we will see what variations we will offer."

I thought his response was alittle odd.  :think:

OMG!!!!  I hope he's not moving to Swiza!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :facepalm:
:rofl:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Steinar on August 26, 2016, 10:22:54 PM
Actually, I would be a little surprised if business was great for Vic these days. "Everybody" seems to have a hard time. Now, if they have problems, very few companies have that kind of brand loyalty and position, so they should have quite some room to maneuver.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: kkokkolis on August 26, 2016, 10:49:32 PM
They have diversity of products. As it was clear in Victorinox store in Geneva, SAKs play a minor role. They covered a space in the underground floor, and not all of it. The rest was clothes, luggage, watches.
On the other hand, there are many makers of clothes, luggage and watches of the middle/upper market segment and Victorinox isn't the most well known in the masses of consumers. Especially women who are the powehouse of shopping. And they might have problems absorving Wenger acquisition, which they made in a very uncommon way (I have in mind the Zeiss/Carl Zeiss Jenna merger, when many people where simply fired). Also, in austerity times luxuries are the first to suffer. You will prefer food, electricity and heating over Swarovski crystals, silk ties and airport perfumes, for a certain budget. A SAK per person isn't a luxury, but it is cheap enough to not provide high revenues. And most people don't carry a SAK, while for those who carry, the damn thing lasts forever. We, who have a small, medium or big collection, are very few.
So, it is possible that they might have some stress, but they survived so far, they survived 9/11, they have no Swiss contest anymore, so they will probably overcome it, even if that means restricting their R&D. SAKs are classic, what's that "quest for the perfect SAK" sillyness? We already have the perfect SAK, and it comes in many flavors.
I think that they can do it. If they weren't a historical family bussiness with an unmatchable know how, they would just have to sell the firm to the Chinese and invest elsewhere. But I don't see them doing that. They'll do it their way.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Steinar on August 26, 2016, 11:08:11 PM
The Victorinox foundation, the biggest owner of Vic IIRC, has providing employment in Ibach as part of their charter.

Edit: Just wanted to add that their kitchen cutlery line seems to be going strong. It's "everywhere" here, and generally regarded as good price/performance.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Huntsman on August 26, 2016, 11:54:58 PM
I think you guys have said it all..
The wording of this announcement is appalling and smacks of arrogance, sour grapes, twisted facts, is very subjective, and something like that should never be posted on a dealer website regarding their main supplier.

..."Victorinox management to stop pursuing development and production of the best possible SAK"...
So what is the best possible SAK SB ??? I guess you are saying this must be a custom SB model? - I think thousands of SAK users around the world would disagree with you - As someone pointed out above we already have the best SAK - in fact lots of them.
What rubbish SB - Tell the truth - They have just stopped suppling limited editions to you - in line with an announcement they made last year. Also as pointed out above - Who wants to pay three or four times the price for a different colour on the handle anyway.

..."In the recent runs from Victorinox we observed higher than usual rate of quality issues, such as anodizing damage, so it seems that the economic issues also had impact on the level of quality control".....
Don't bite the hand that feeds you, and publicly criticise your supplier - If there are issues resolve them quietly and directly

...."We are thankful to Mr. Elsener and Victorinox for the past co-operation with us and hoping that this iconic company will be able to weather the storm".....
What arrogance. Again as pointed out above - Vic have a fabulous and diverse line of products, will long outlast SB, and will have a successful and rosy future.
Yes economic, political and social times are changing but the Swiss Army Knife will live on  :tu:

PS. Sorry for the  :rant: - I have never had any dealings with SB - I like his products and videos - His Damascus story is fascinating - But I think that statement was out of order.  >:(
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: ThePeacent on August 27, 2016, 12:03:36 AM
I see that most here and on Bladeforums share the same opinion:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1424104-Victorinox-Quality

To put it simple, it seems that SB is butthurt and is trying to give a last "drama queen" moment before they finally sink, or start the process of loss that will ultimately lead to their disappearance. I say that keeping all respect for them, but business is business regardless of personal considerations.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: twiliter on August 27, 2016, 01:08:50 AM
There are other forums?  :whistle:

If Vic keeps releasing outstanding MT models every 12-15 years they will be ok in that segment I think. The Spirit ('04) and Pioneer X ('16) come to mind. We might have to wait a while for a Farmer X, or a smaller pliers based MT with a clip, but it should be worth the wait.  :tu:

Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: jerseydevil on August 27, 2016, 01:48:02 AM
Awwww, poor Roger. Breaks my heart....




::)
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Frailer on August 27, 2016, 01:52:00 AM
I'm willing to attribute a portion of the "sour grapes" tone to the language barrier.

Nevertheless, I can't help but note that +B's frequent complaints regarding modders cited quality issues. Now that Victorinox has altered their arrangement with +B they are having quality issues as well.

Strange that the latter QC complaint is only now coming to light.  Bad form, +B.

In the spirit of fairness, I will say when I purchased a knife from +B--a Bushcrafter--the price I paid wasn't excessive, and the transaction was problem-free.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: shadowrider on August 27, 2016, 04:39:40 AM
Regarding Swissbianco, does anyone know who some Jan S. is?
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: captain spaulding on August 27, 2016, 05:20:44 AM
Awwww, poor Roger. Breaks my heart....




::)

Lol. my thought exactly. Made my day to hear this.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: cali-SAK-attack on August 27, 2016, 07:07:25 AM
 :nothingtoadd:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Sparky415 on August 27, 2016, 09:17:52 AM

The Guy has dealt poorly and in a childish manner with one of our members in the past,
here he is doing it again trying to start rumours

Just sour grapes!  (We need an emoticon just for him)
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: enki_ck on August 27, 2016, 11:26:47 AM

The Guy has dealt poorly and in a childish manner with one of our members in the past,
here he is doing it again trying to start rumours

Just sour grapes!  (We need an emoticon just for him)


Not one, many members over the years, and he was one of the first if not the first guy to be banned from MTO, and that while he was still a moderator here. That should probably speak for something. And the reason why the transactions with "him" aka the Canada shop are problem free is cause he's not doing them. :P
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: enki_ck on August 27, 2016, 11:28:28 AM
Regarding Swissbianco, does anyone know who some Jan S. is?

He's a guy from Austria, also a member here, no connection with Swissbianco whatsoever. Any specific reason you're asking? PM me if it's not for the public forum.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Thales of Miletus on August 27, 2016, 03:56:54 PM
I wasn't happy about the letter he sent, but I'm going to act charitably and follow the suggestion of the earlier post that emphasizes the problems of the language barrier.  It's hard to be entirely sure of his intentions and tone when he uses some very strained expressions in his English.  So I will simply be charitable, and encourage the same to everyone else. 
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: powernoodle on August 27, 2016, 08:14:24 PM
I prefer to base an opinion on first hand experience.  I've bought several toys from him and everything has run smoothly.  I would hate to see his supply dry up.  But if you guys say he was a knucklehead on MTO, I believe it.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: kkokkolis on August 28, 2016, 12:17:47 AM
Icheatpeople also speaks of something Enki. I don't know about what, but I guess it isn't good.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: JamesJ on August 28, 2016, 12:49:32 AM
The only thing I've heard about recently RE:quality is problems with the Pioneer X (bent pin issue), and Delemont pliers not being shaped correctly so that they can't close all the way.

I like Wenger and Delemont but I see more broken tools on them than on Vics. Not a lot, but more.

I mainly like SwissB as a source for 91mm scales.  I'm not a colored Alox collector, so if I can't get "late autumn harvest rust" and have to just stick to "orange" that's fine with me. I did see on the Swiss B facebook a side-by side comparison of victorinox stamped and SwissBiano CNC'ed scales showing the rough bumpy edge of the Vic and the precise edge of the SwissB...and Looking at my standard Victorinox Alox knives, I do see that rough edge, but it's not a functional issue at all. I understand being picky about fit and finish though, especially with collectors.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Joe58 on August 28, 2016, 02:11:31 AM
I've purchased of few of his alox electrician runs in the earth tone colors since electrician is my favorite model, and it was kinda nice to have a couple in something besides silver or red. They were at a higher price than a one, but it was basically the only way I could get a brown electrician for instance. And now, if I'm being honest, I still carry a silver or red one most of the time anyway. Lol.

But other than those couple, most my alox has been to and came back from the modders and the guys we have here do a great job. I did not notice any quality issues in the SB ones I purchased either though.

Having been a member here for quite awhile, I recall Roger getting pretty worked up over modders, citing the quality control issue, costs, yadayada. To me, that was a non-issue, since a modder not doing decent work, or not running his shop properly, will soon be shut down due to poor reviews. He seemed to view knife variations other than factory offering as his private domain. That didn't work out too well for him in the long run it seems.

I guess if Vic would have offered deals like this with some of our other well known modders, his exclusive deal wouldn't have been so irritating.

Truthfully, what I find more irritating currently is what Vic is doing with all these slight shading alox variations, limited release colors to different parts of the world, all that stuff. All at higher prices as well. Just like Roger was doing. Aimed right at the collectors.

But, as others have said, nobody is forcing you to buy them. And Vic wouldn't be cranking them out if they were not selling I would imagine.

It'll be interesting to see, say in a year, if there are still these rumors concerning Victorinox floating around. I don't see them going anywhere.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: cbl51 on August 28, 2016, 02:25:06 AM
Okay, I have a question.

I may be too old to grasp it, or set in my ways to understand, but just what does this Swiss Bianco do besides sell custom color SAK's at an greatly inflated price?

I've visited his web site and tried to fathom it, but I really can't. It's just like buying a new car and paying lots of money for a custom color paint job on something that is going to be used up in 10 or 15 years. Maybe I'm way too pragmatic for my own good, but I've never understood the Swiss Bianco thing. Bu then I shoot standard firearms, and the truck I bought new in 2001 still has the same wheels and paint job it came with with, and runs great.  A little dinged up and 147,000 on the clock, but it's always done the job. Kind of like my Old Wenger SI in plain old silver alox.

What made folks spent three and four times the money on a alox pointer or farmer just for a different color alox? Swiss Bianco seems like a version of Peter Atwood with greatly inflated prices on trendy toys for adults.

I've been using SAK's since 1969, and in 47 years of use, on four different continents and one war in Vietnam, I've never had a SAK fail me. So what is this Swiss Bianco selling that makes a SAK better, or as he puts it, the perfect SAK?

I'd love to be enlightened!
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: JamesJ on August 28, 2016, 03:40:28 AM
Okay, I have a question.

I may be too old to grasp it, or set in my ways to understand, but just what does this Swiss Bianco do besides sell custom color SAK's at an greatly inflated price?

I've visited his web site and tried to fathom it, but I really can't. It's just like buying a new car and paying lots of money for a custom color paint job on something that is going to be used up in 10 or 15 years. Maybe I'm way too pragmatic for my own good, but I've never understood the Swiss Bianco thing. Bu then I shoot standard firearms, and the truck I bought new in 2001 still has the same wheels and paint job it came with with, and runs great.  A little dinged up and 147,000 on the clock, but it's always done the job. Kind of like my Old Wenger SI in plain old silver alox.

What made folks spent three and four times the money on a alox pointer or farmer just for a different color alox? Swiss Bianco seems like a version of Peter Atwood with greatly inflated prices on trendy toys for adults.

I've been using SAK's since 1969, and in 47 years of use, on four different continents and one war in Vietnam, I've never had a SAK fail me. So what is this Swiss Bianco selling that makes a SAK better, or as he puts it, the perfect SAK?

I'd love to be enlightened!

I think right now it's mostly different colors like you said, he seems to be gearing up to release his own 95mm knife/tool, at least according to the facebook page. He's also got other things on there like whistles and fixed blade knives. But in the past I remember Yeomans with nail file on the hook, when this model was out of production from Victorinox, also his copper scales for 91mm knives are popular, I see them on here a lot on various knives.

All the drama predates me joining this forum so I have no idea about any of that.  I've only bought 91mm cellidor scales so I don't know how any of the Alox stuff is.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: SAK Guy on August 28, 2016, 05:21:36 AM
Okay, I have a question.

I may be too old to grasp it, or set in my ways to understand, but just what does this Swiss Bianco do besides sell custom color SAK's at an greatly inflated price?

I've visited his web site and tried to fathom it, but I really can't. It's just like buying a new car and paying lots of money for a custom color paint job on something that is going to be used up in 10 or 15 years. Maybe I'm way too pragmatic for my own good, but I've never understood the Swiss Bianco thing. Bu then I shoot standard firearms, and the truck I bought new in 2001 still has the same wheels and paint job it came with with, and runs great.  A little dinged up and 147,000 on the clock, but it's always done the job. Kind of like my Old Wenger SI in plain old silver alox.

What made folks spent three and four times the money on a alox pointer or farmer just for a different color alox? Swiss Bianco seems like a version of Peter Atwood with greatly inflated prices on trendy toys for adults.

I've been using SAK's since 1969, and in 47 years of use, on four different continents and one war in Vietnam, I've never had a SAK fail me. So what is this Swiss Bianco selling that makes a SAK better, or as he puts it, the perfect SAK?

I'd love to be enlightened!

Awww man...don't bring up that logical, clear thinking, common sense thing.  :facepalm:   :D

As both a photog/SAK user for 44+ years, the color invokes feelings/emotion and some particular wavelengths just, well they just make me happy which is something I haven't had much of in the last 5 years. Silver is cool but will never make me feel like this:

(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/5X%20ALOX%20%20GPA_zpsmfupda80.jpg)

or this...
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Reposts/Farmer%20group%20incomplete%20CB%20Adj2_zpsxujeiysf.jpg)

Aside from that, there's the SAKs I leave behind....pretty colors for my Daughter/Granddaughters, cool colors for my SIL and my Grandsons, some to sell, some to keep and some to remember.
 
And......there is the obvious psychosis that come from losing one's lifetime collection of knives, keepsakes and memories all in one terrible day. That'll leave a mark on ya.    :hatsoff:


Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: kaput on August 28, 2016, 07:50:23 AM
O, and he adds key rings... :D
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: cali-SAK-attack on August 28, 2016, 08:06:26 AM
Alright , Everybody LINE UP!..................... :police:

Thats right ,  everyone on the line!......................  :police:

OK , Everyone who works with Victorinox , take one step forward! ..............................  :police:

NOT SOOOOOO FAST Swiss+B !  :pok:


Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: JamesJ on August 28, 2016, 10:03:48 AM
I totally relate to colors effecting mood and gravitate towards blues. But I don't have the need to collect the same knife in every color. I prefer to collect all the different models in one color, so it's a matching set with all the variations. Just how my brain likes to organise things.

But I do like to be able to choose a cool color that resonates with me. It's usually blue of some type.

I'm like a bower bird with blue.

Blue pioneer x posted on another thread was beckoning me earlier.

Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: kkokkolis on August 28, 2016, 10:32:45 AM
Everyone has it's own way of thinking, feeling, willing. The vast majority of the world follows capitalistic rules, and in such a world supply follows demand and demand follows supply in an interdepented way. We want special forms or functions, someone will supply them for profit. They want to make a new market segment, for profit obviously, and the offer new things. If they sell, they continue, if not they try to make a new segment. People who are interested spend their money, people who don't they spend them elsewhere. That's how healthy consumerism works as we all know. So it's not bad for +B or any other factory or custom maker to offer things, either new or simple variations, because they correspond to market needs, or they construct them. Either way, nobody sells putting a pistol on our temple (although they sometimes put hoarding and greed in what's inside our skull, but you can't just blame them only, if we don't like something, we won't buy it).
So, I hope +B and all others to live and more to come, in order to see more fascinating things and get more reward, either by owning something or by looking at pics and talking about, here in this forum or elsewhere.
It's just, as many observed, that the market is better when it follows certain moral rules. Like "You advertise the merits of your product and you don't evince the disadvantages of your competitor products (or, worse, invent them)". "You trade with reliability and dignity". "You try to always be better" etc.
I don't know Robert, I'm not interested in buying his products -although I love seeing them in the hand of others here-, I don't have a personal complaint, but I felt shame just reading his words.
I don't want to (http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/images/smilies/dead_horse.gif), but I hope he would recall his statement.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Joe58 on August 28, 2016, 02:19:54 PM
The different colored alox ones are just a personal taste preference. Same reason they offer cars in different colors and paint schemes and different interior option packages. The plain jane base model vehicle will get you where your going just the same as a model with all the bells and whistles will, but some like having the extras.

But a different color of scales won't make the knife cut any better than just a plain silver one. It's just nice to have an option should you care to pay for it. No biggee. And if you have a stock of different colors, it is easier to properly accessorize when getting dressed to make sure your knife color matches your socks that day. Lol.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: SAK Guy on August 28, 2016, 03:30:44 PM
The different colored alox ones are just a personal taste preference. Same reason they offer cars in different colors and paint schemes and different interior option packages. The plain jane base model vehicle will get you where your going just the same as a model with all the bells and whistles will, but some like having the extras.

But a different color of scales won't make the knife cut any better that just a plain silver one. It's just nice to have an option should you care to pay for it. No biggee. And if you have a stock of different colors, it is easier to properly accessorize when getting dressed to make sure your knife color matches your socks that day. Lol.

 :rofl:   :2tu:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Frailer on August 28, 2016, 04:51:10 PM
I totally relate to colors effecting mood and gravitate towards blues. But I don't have the need to collect the same knife in every color. I prefer to collect all the different models in one color, so it's a matching set with all the variations. Just how my brain likes to organise things.

But I do like to be able to choose a cool color that resonates with me. It's usually blue of some type.

I'm like a bower bird with blue.

Blue pioneer x posted on another thread was beckoning me earlier.

This aligns with my approach, as well. Only I'm an orange guy.

Furthermore, I limit myself to knives with tool combinations I find useful in my day-to-day life, which--for me--means no pruning blades or marlin spikes. Makes for a small, yet perfectly formed, collection.

I'm glad I don't feel compelled to collect color variations. I'm a little bit obsessive, so that would drive me nuts. I'm glad others do, though, as I enjoy seeing pictures of such collections.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: T14 on August 28, 2016, 05:49:18 PM
I am always sad to see a source of variety disappear :-\

Ever since I was a kid, I have always connected swiss army knives with red scales.
I do love the slimness that alox allows for, I just prefer red colored pocket knives due to my own nostalgia, and the anti-tactical vibe that they have.

less red alox availability => less awesomeness in the world.

As for the dramatis personae aspect I am very much a live and let live person.  :cheers:
-Tom
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: TonySal on August 28, 2016, 07:53:58 PM
Reads like a passive aggressive swipe at Victorinox... and I cannot gauge whether it is bitterness, legitimate or somewhere in between. What it means?


That's what I thought. They should be grateful to stand in the heavy shadow of Victorinox. Victorinox will still be here when SB will long have been gone. I don't respect whoever doesn't respect the Elsener legacy.


Aἰδώς Ἀργεῖοι. Shame Argives!

..,and I heard some not so flattering things about Swiss Bianco on another forum, so I'll just wish Vic good luck and stick by them.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: TonySal on August 28, 2016, 08:00:50 PM
 
I've purchased of few of his alox electrician runs in the earth tone colors since electrician is my favorite model, and it was kinda nice to have a couple in something besides silver or red. They were at a higher price than a one, but it was basically the only way I could get a brown electrician for instance. And now, if I'm being honest, I still carry a silver or red one most of the time anyway. Lol.

But other than those couple, most my alox has been to and came back from the modders and the guys we have here do a great job. I did not notice any quality issues in the SB ones I purchased either though.

Having been a member here for quite awhile, I recall Roger getting pretty worked up over modders, citing the quality control issue, costs, yadayada. To me, that was a non-issue, since a modder not doing decent work, or not running his shop properly, will soon be shut down due to poor reviews. He seemed to view knife variations other than factory offering as his private domain. That didn't work out too well for him in the long run it seems.

I guess if Vic would have offered deals like this with some of our other well known modders, his exclusive deal wouldn't have been so irritating.

Truthfully, what I find more irritating currently is what Vic is doing with all these slight shading alox variations, limited release colors to different parts of the world, all that stuff. All at higher prices as well. Just like Roger was doing. Aimed right at the collectors.

But, as others have said, nobody is forcing you to buy them. And Vic wouldn't be cranking them out if they were not selling I would imagine.

It'll be interesting to see, say in a year, if there are still these rumors concerning Victorinox floating around. I don't see them going anywhere.

 :like:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: SteveC on August 28, 2016, 08:14:44 PM
Swiss Blanco = George



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgC7z_vR78U
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: SAK Guy on August 28, 2016, 08:23:43 PM
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: SteveC on August 30, 2016, 07:01:04 PM
 :D
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Poncho65 on August 30, 2016, 07:43:31 PM
 :like:

 :rofl:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Poncho65 on August 30, 2016, 07:43:52 PM
New page banana man dance

:nanadance:      :nanadance:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: pfrsantos on August 30, 2016, 07:56:41 PM
Swiss Blanco = George



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgC7z_vR78U

(https://media.makeameme.org/created/victorinox-has-quality.jpg)

 :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: SteveC on August 30, 2016, 09:18:04 PM
 :rofl:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: firiki on August 30, 2016, 09:30:40 PM
From the Swiss Bianco newsletter (http://swissbianco.ca/Newsletter/SwissBianco_NL_2016_3.htm):

"The latest news from Switzerland is that the current tough economic conditions forced Victorinox management to stop pursuing development and production of the best possible SAK and to limit themselves to basic models and colors. As a result, none of the Swiss Bianco special models and colors will be produced any longer. There is a short window of opportunity for collectors to purchase the pieces we still have in stock, as once they are gone, that's it!

In the recent runs from Victorinox we observed higher than usual rate of quality issues, such as anodizing damage, so it seems that the economic issues also had impact on the level of quality control. We are thankful to Mr. Elsener and Victorinox for the past co-operation with us and hoping that this iconic company will be able to weather the storm."


Thoughts?

(http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68119.0;attach=283378;image)
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: jerseydevil on August 30, 2016, 10:15:00 PM
From the Swiss Bianco newsletter (http://swissbianco.ca/Newsletter/SwissBianco_NL_2016_3.htm):

"The latest news from Switzerland is that the current tough economic conditions forced Victorinox management to stop pursuing development and production of the best possible SAK and to limit themselves to basic models and colors. As a result, none of the Swiss Bianco special models and colors will be produced any longer. There is a short window of opportunity for collectors to purchase the pieces we still have in stock, as once they are gone, that's it!

In the recent runs from Victorinox we observed higher than usual rate of quality issues, such as anodizing damage, so it seems that the economic issues also had impact on the level of quality control. We are thankful to Mr. Elsener and Victorinox for the past co-operation with us and hoping that this iconic company will be able to weather the storm."


Thoughts?

(http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68119.0;attach=283378;image)

Exactly.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: batosai117 on August 30, 2016, 11:56:57 PM
I always admired the colors but after two messed up orders in a row I never ordered again. It seems he really burned the bridge of any potential future with Victorinox after his open gripe. He should have left off on a positive note in case things turn around. Plus, if I were a potential buyer I definitely wouldn't be now after that closing statement.


Sent from my electronic multi-tool.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: shadowrider on August 31, 2016, 07:41:55 AM
That first sentence of Swissbianco's second paragraph, regarding supposed quality control issues, is really out of place in the context of the newsletter.
What does it have to do with anything? Notice how it's crammed between the announcement, and the thanking of MrElsener.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Thunderpants on August 31, 2016, 09:36:42 AM
I always thought it was very weird how one guy was able to order a miraculous range of SAKs in a bewildering array of colours directly from Victorinox which he would then sell on at an enormous profit.
Those extra microns of colour on the scales were very seductive, but in the end I really couldn't justify spending hundreds of dollars on SAKS that would sit around unused. I have in the past had some fancy Alox and planned to use it, but I'd always think - hm, why not use a cheaper SAK instead of ruining this beauty?

Well I guess old SwissBianco's going to have a harder time making a living, now that he can no longer sell Davy's Grey Carvers and the like. Love him or loathe him, he will always be remembered as the man who gave us the most awesome SAKs of all time, glowing in the radiated glare of Apocalypse Green.
Man, I wish I'd ordered some of those!

So, good luck Mr SwissBianco, and thanks for giving us some whacky SAKs to lust after, even if we couldn't necessarily afford them!

Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 31, 2016, 09:46:11 AM
I always thought it was very weird how one guy was able to order a miraculous range of SAKs in a bewildering array of colours directly from Victorinox which he would then sell on at an enormous profit.
Those extra microns of colour on the scales were very seductive, but in the end I really couldn't justify spending hundreds of dollars on SAKS that would sit around unused. I have in the past had some fancy Alox and planned to use it, but I'd always think - hm, why not use a cheaper SAK instead of ruining this beauty?

Well I guess old SwissBianco's going to have a harder time making a living, now that he can no longer sell Davy's Grey Carvers and the like. Love him or loathe him, he will always be remembered as the man who gave us the most awesome SAKs of all time, glowing in the radiated glare of Apocalypse Green.
Man, I wish I'd ordered some of those!

So, good luck Mr SwissBianco, and thanks for giving us some whacky SAKs to lust after, even if we couldn't necessarily afford them!

 :hatsoff:

I was eyeballing some of his special editions, but always had other priorities. Although they cost a pretty penny, now that he's gone I do feel some regret about not buying them  :doh:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: kkokkolis on August 31, 2016, 09:49:32 AM
Is that Carver SW knife sold by Victorinox in any color?


(http://www.swissbianco.ca/images/Inventory/SAK/ODG_Carver.jpg)
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Thunderpants on August 31, 2016, 09:56:51 AM
Is that Carver SW knife sold by Victorinox in any color?


As far as I am aware, Mr SwissBianco is the only man in the universe who can provide you with such things.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: kkokkolis on August 31, 2016, 10:19:22 AM
Regardless of color, that's an interesting SAK, a dedicated cutter. With a pair of scissors that could cut anything in many different ways.
The next SAK that has these tools combined is the XAVT, which isn't much of a user.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Thunderpants on August 31, 2016, 10:45:12 AM
The next SAK that has these tools combined is the XAVT, which isn't much of a user.

Haha! If I was a millionaire, and King Kong, that would be my EDC. As it is, Mr Bianco's Carver is pretty special SAK - and I think he still has a few for sale...
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 31, 2016, 11:09:58 AM
The next SAK that has these tools combined is the XAVT, which isn't much of a user.

Haha! If I was a millionaire, and King Kong, that would be my EDC. As it is, Mr Bianco's Carver is pretty special SAK - and I think he still has a few for sale...

I even dare to go a bit further than that: if I was a millionare OR King Kong I'll take the XAVT as EDC.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: JamesJ on August 31, 2016, 11:30:01 AM
I always thought it was very weird how one guy was able to order a miraculous range of SAKs in a bewildering array of colours directly from Victorinox

This is what I'm really curious about. Im sure there's plenty of licensed Vic dealers that would love that kind of arrangement. How was one man able to secure this deal? Why did they do it for him and not others? I realize there is sort of a semi custom program for promo knives but it's generally just custom graphics on the blade or scales. He had to be friends with somebody at Vic, or some kind of connection. Surely there are larger dealers that could have bought these in even greater numbers from Vic...

I dont have any opinion on it, it's just odd to me that one person was given this special deal. Good or bad whatever it suggests some kind of a backstory.

Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: JamesJ on August 31, 2016, 11:32:12 AM
Also the next huge knife they come out with needs to be called the Millionaire Kong
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: pfrsantos on August 31, 2016, 12:05:20 PM
Is that Carver SW knife sold by Victorinox in any color?


As far as I am aware, Mr SwissBianco is the only man in the universe who can provide you with such things.

Really?...

Show content
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/guess-what-not-e8iwwp.jpg)

Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: shadowrider on August 31, 2016, 12:33:43 PM
I always thought it was very weird how one guy was able to order a miraculous range of SAKs in a bewildering array of colours directly from Victorinox

This is what I'm really curious about. Im sure there's plenty of licensed Vic dealers that would love that kind of arrangement. How was one man able to secure this deal? Why did they do it for him and not others? I realize there is sort of a semi custom program for promo knives but it's generally just custom graphics on the blade or scales. He had to be friends with somebody at Vic, or some kind of connection. Surely there are larger dealers that could have bought these in even greater numbers from Vic...

I dont have any opinion on it, it's just odd to me that one person was given this special deal. Good or bad whatever it suggests some kind of a backstory.

Someone needs to interview him and ask him that.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: lichan on August 31, 2016, 06:40:54 PM
Or maybe JazzBass could ask Mr. Eisner. Just like Clark Kent can find out things from Superman. JK!
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: marduk on August 31, 2016, 08:53:26 PM
It seems some of us are infected w/one of the 7 Deadly Sins: Envy.
I have dealt w/him almost since his arrival in the US & I have purchased his offering w/o any problems. In fact, about a year ago I bought his Apoc. Farmer Firesteel. When I ran my fingers over the scale, I felt a scratch: one of the rivets was sticking above the surface. I contacted him & he suggested I send it back & he would send me another that was somewhat better. It was then that he told me there was a problem about QC at Ibach.
Are his products overpriced? No more that any other dealer of SAKs. And look what some of his knives are selling for on ebay today.
Is he unique in getting special deals from Vic? No more that other dealers; see, for example, SK, SMS, Edelweiss, et al. Some of these even get bicolor & numbered Alox.
Does he get special treatment from Vic? Maybe, too many of us have forgotten his role in Vic's production of Damast blades.
I suggest we stop throwing stones at him. He has provided us w/products that many of us are anxious to have.
Has he made mistakes, has he said things that perhaps he should not have? Yes, but who of us has not?
Too many of us have forgotten why he came to the USA, the legal problems he had in his native land, & the personal problems he's had in recent years.
How many of those who have jumped on him can do what he has done: migrated to a new country, learned a new language, & established (I hope) a successful business at a time of economic stagnation in the US.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: sawman on August 31, 2016, 10:15:44 PM
It seems some of us are infected w/one of the 7 Deadly Sins: Envy.
I have dealt w/him almost since his arrival in the US & I have purchased his offering w/o any problems. In fact, about a year ago I bought his Apoc. Farmer Firesteel. When I ran my fingers over the scale, I felt a scratch: one of the rivets was sticking above the surface. I contacted him & he suggested I send it back & he would send me another that was somewhat better. It was then that he told me there was a problem about QC at Ibach.
Are his products overpriced? No more that any other dealer of SAKs. And look what some of his knives are selling for on ebay today.
Is he unique in getting special deals from Vic? No more that other dealers; see, for example, SK, SMS, Edelweiss, et al. Some of these even get bicolor & numbered Alox.
Does he get special treatment from Vic? Maybe, too many of us have forgotten his role in Vic's production of Damast blades.
I suggest we stop throwing stones at him. He has provided us w/products that many of us are anxious to have.
Has he made mistakes, has he said things that perhaps he should not have? Yes, but who of us has not?
Too many of us have forgotten why he came to the USA, the legal problems he had in his native land, & the personal problems he's had in recent years.
How many of those who have jumped on him can do what he has done: migrated to a new country, learned a new language, & established (I hope) a successful business at a time of economic stagnation in the US.
Good points, but I personally dislike the market that he produced by over-valuing these aluminum handle knives by adding color. Then, by not producing enough to meet demand, they automatically skyrocket in value and cause such a stir. This is not how I feel business should be done. These are only my two cents - and I do find your post somewhat informative.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: JamesJ on August 31, 2016, 11:47:19 PM
I'm more curious than anything, nothing bad to say. For instance, didn't know about his role in the Damast blades. Since I wasn't around back then I have no idea. I had no issues ordering parts. Shipping price was kind of high, but it wasnt a suprise. I knew the price and still clicked my way through the order. I'm curious to see the new multi tool he's developing.  No personal grudge from me, never met him. But still I'm curious, I like hearing stories of how people started their business, the challenges and success, mistakes and victories. So I ask questions about his relationship with Victorinox because it seems unique.

If he branches out to build folders all on his own, I'll give them a look. Probably won't be able to afford it though.





Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Chako on September 01, 2016, 12:11:33 AM
I am happy to hear you had no issues with the man. I however had a totally different experience on 2 separate occasions. Mind you, now that you have mentioned it, those could possibly be due to a language barrier.

With that said, he wasn't the only one. Victorinox had those limited runs of Alox numbering up to 50 quantity for a short time.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: kaput on September 01, 2016, 01:00:47 AM
Is that Carver SW knife sold by Victorinox in any color?


As far as I am aware, Mr SwissBianco is the only man in the universe who can provide you with such things.

"Could have"...
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Syph007 on September 01, 2016, 01:57:52 AM
Regarding the business... it always annoyed me so much he got this special treatment.  How he did it is the big mystery and the only edge he had over anyone.  Did he save the life of an Elsener?  Who knows, but he really exploited that fact.  Imagine where I could have been back when I started if I was able to buy parts directly from Vic without having to take apart 1000 SAKS.

So ya Im glad they cut him off.  He knows so little about SAKs its sad.  He was just a middle man between manufacturer and customer.  i.e. a Victorinox Dealer.  Anyone with the 'connection' could have done the same, and been nicer about it too.  Listening to him talk he makes it seem like he IS victorinox.  He isnt and as far as I know does not work for them in any capacity.

At least he can fall back on his blacksmith skills and maybe get into the medieval fair scene.  :whistle:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: JamesJ on September 01, 2016, 04:08:24 AM
I am happy to hear you had no issues with the man. I however had a totally different experience on 2 separate occasions. Mind you, now that you have mentioned it, those could possibly be due to a language barrier.

With that said, he wasn't the only one. Victorinox had those limited runs of Alox numbering up to 50 quantity for a short time.

Well....I was just clarifying that Im not "trash talking" when I was asking why he has the Vic deal. But...hey maybe if I dealt with him it would've went sour. I dont doubt anyone. Ha how did I get wrapped up in this  :ahhh
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Kampfer on September 01, 2016, 05:17:03 AM
I been looking at the Alox Rambler for years, but never pull the trigger.
He is selling them $40 more than a standard Alox Classic, just for one extra phillies driver.
Way overpriced.  :td:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Thunderpants on September 01, 2016, 08:01:23 AM
Imagine where I could have been back when I started if I was able to buy parts directly from Vic without having to take apart 1000 SAKS.

Yeah, but can anyone (including SwissB) order SAK parts ie Compact hooks, pruning blades etc and get them? As far as I know, he was ordering entire, finished SAKs and not just components. The strange thing, I thought, was that while other vendors had special colour Farmers, Pioneers etc, he had a number of configurations that were his and his alone. (Who else ever - in living memory - sold Carvers?) So he certainly got special treatment for some reason, or he was one hell of a negotiator.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: firiki on September 01, 2016, 09:56:14 AM
That first sentence of Swissbianco's second paragraph, regarding supposed quality control issues, is really out of place in the context of the newsletter.
What does it have to do with anything? Notice how it's crammed between the announcement, and the thanking of MrElsener.

All other B+ practices that I don't really like aside, I think the same as shadowrider.

Language barriers and such?... Well, yeah, maybe, up to point, for some time. But... worst case is you can ask somebody else to write the newsletter for you. This newsletter shows quite good command of the English language, though, and I can't believe that anyone has something to say and cannot find the words. I'm trying to say that the meaning of words is more or less universal and the meaning conveyed here seems like someone is trying to take a quick, small jab at Vic. Petty, if you ask me.

I'd be interested to hear how he got those special runs made. Perhaps Vic saw a way to try new configurations? :shrug:
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: cbl51 on September 01, 2016, 02:17:14 PM
Many folks have wondered how SB got his relationship with Victorinox????

Maybe he just had to ask his 'Uncle Carl?"
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: shadowrider on September 01, 2016, 02:48:36 PM
Many folks have wondered how SB got his relationship with Victorinox????

Maybe he just had to ask his 'Uncle Carl?"
What??  :o :o :o
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: pfrsantos on September 01, 2016, 02:52:37 PM
Many folks have wondered how SB got his relationship with Victorinox????

Maybe he just had to ask his 'Uncle Carl?"

Well, you know...

Show content
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/65/c9/6f/65c96fd7d40ba4a1e52e328e3f65f760.jpg)

Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Syph007 on September 01, 2016, 06:07:07 PM
Imagine where I could have been back when I started if I was able to buy parts directly from Vic without having to take apart 1000 SAKS.

Yeah, but can anyone (including SwissB) order SAK parts ie Compact hooks, pruning blades etc and get them? As far as I know, he was ordering entire, finished SAKs and not just components. The strange thing, I thought, was that while other vendors had special colour Farmers, Pioneers etc, he had a number of configurations that were his and his alone. (Who else ever - in living memory - sold Carvers?) So he certainly got special treatment for some reason, or he was one hell of a negotiator.

He claimed he could get parts but who knows.  He did show pics of raw unanodized alox scales before that he got from Vic.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: enki_ck on September 01, 2016, 07:10:57 PM
Imagine where I could have been back when I started if I was able to buy parts directly from Vic without having to take apart 1000 SAKS.

Yeah, but can anyone (including SwissB) order SAK parts ie Compact hooks, pruning blades etc and get them? As far as I know, he was ordering entire, finished SAKs and not just components. The strange thing, I thought, was that while other vendors had special colour Farmers, Pioneers etc, he had a number of configurations that were his and his alone. (Who else ever - in living memory - sold Carvers?) So he certainly got special treatment for some reason, or he was one hell of a negotiator.

He claimed he could get parts but who knows.  He did show pics of raw unanodized alox scales before that he got from Vic.

Some of the pics that he posted were from the parts bins in the Vic factory he took while he was visiting. He just threw his logo thing in the tray.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: shadowrider on September 01, 2016, 08:39:47 PM
Imagine where I could have been back when I started if I was able to buy parts directly from Vic without having to take apart 1000 SAKS.

Yeah, but can anyone (including SwissB) order SAK parts ie Compact hooks, pruning blades etc and get them? As far as I know, he was ordering entire, finished SAKs and not just components. The strange thing, I thought, was that while other vendors had special colour Farmers, Pioneers etc, he had a number of configurations that were his and his alone. (Who else ever - in living memory - sold Carvers?) So he certainly got special treatment for some reason, or he was one hell of a negotiator.

He claimed he could get parts but who knows.  He did show pics of raw unanodized alox scales before that he got from Vic.

Some of the pics that he posted were from the parts bins in the Vic factory he took while he was visiting. He just threw his logo thing in the tray.
That's genius!
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Gareth on September 01, 2016, 09:18:55 PM
Not to jump on the Rodger bashing bandwagon, but Victorinox has never credited him in the Pioneer project.  At best Rodger just seems to have taken credit for approaching them with an idea they were already working on.

Actually, as I found out in a recent discussion with the Powers that Be at Victorinox, the Damascus SAK is NOT due to any influence or inspiration from Roger.  In fact, the initial concept of a Damascus blade on a SAK was explored before Roger was even in contact with Victorinox.

According to Victorinox, Roger had absolutely nothing to do with the production of this knife.  In case anyone thinks I am making this up because of past history with Roger, this topic came up during a conference call in which another highly respected member was also a part, and I'm certain he would be able to verify that the idea came from within Victorinox, not from +B.

Def
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Gath on September 02, 2016, 12:52:09 PM
The Victorinox foundation, the biggest owner of Vic IIRC, has providing employment in Ibach as part of their charter.

Edit: Just wanted to add that their kitchen cutlery line seems to be going strong. It's "everywhere" here, and generally regarded as good price/performance.


Indeed the cutlery seems to be everywhere in Finland a Victorinox set is in fact standard issue for chef students. It also is the standard for professional kitchens and found from any wholesaler and most supermarkets. and why not, they're affordable and effective.
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Everdying on September 03, 2016, 03:59:24 AM
claims victorinox has stopped supplies... so are all those colored Pioneer X from Germany not from victorinox?
Title: Re: No more Victorinox-made special SAK models for Swiss Bianco
Post by: Syph007 on September 03, 2016, 05:07:21 AM
The Victorinox foundation, the biggest owner of Vic IIRC, has providing employment in Ibach as part of their charter.

Edit: Just wanted to add that their kitchen cutlery line seems to be going strong. It's "everywhere" here, and generally regarded as good price/performance.


Indeed the cutlery seems to be everywhere in Finland a Victorinox set is in fact standard issue for chef students. It also is the standard for professional kitchens and found from any wholesaler and most supermarkets. and why not, they're affordable and effective.

I got a free Vic serrated steak knife with a SAK order and I was impressed and I use it quite alot.