Okay, serious question

[tosh]

What age do you think is old enough for a child to be given their first SAK?

My 6 1\2yr old is quite frankly fascinated by my Collection.
Which if I stop to think what it all must look like from a child's view - its unsurprising.

He's been begging me to show him some of them, which up to now I've simply refused.
However, I gave in and let him open the boxes containing the wenger 85's

He's now totally obsessed by the blaze scales.

I'd love to give him one but at the same time I'm trying to act like a responsdible parent.

He says he'd love one so he can build projects either out in the garden or with his Meccano.

So, I'm now debating which one. Obviously the blade will be filed to ensure its no more dangerous than a spoon.

But the toolset...

Wants..

Screwdrivers/saw/scissors,/spanner/wrench/nail file/awl/tweezers/mag layer.
I'm thinking of the Wenger 28 with the scales swapped for the blaze versions.

Any comments?

[Aloha]

Admittedly we are all as fascinated as a 6 year old when it comes to these tools right??  I dont have an answer to how old other than to say teach responsible handling of the tool.  Maybe start by letting him use the tool under your watchful eye.  Helping dad work while carrying and using one of your tools all the while teaching him proper handling. 

[dks]

about 9-10

A Victorinox explorer or huntsman makes a very useful and interesting 1st proper cutting tool.

[kirk13]

Have you thought about one of these three options?

1) a bladeless MT instead of a SAK? Either set up a bladeless PPP or a LM/Gerber or
2) My first Victorinox ? Or
3) One of the Wenger Junior range?

Incidentally,Top-Gear24 did a thread some time ago about his eldest getting his first SAK 

[Etherealicer]

I'm not a parent BUT I think its better if you give him a SAK instead of him sneaking one into his pockets to impress his friends. Personally I suggest you give him his own SAK (maybe a Junior) and start doing stuff with him with the knife (easy things):
- cut a branch
- put a point on that branch
- use it to bbq a sausage over the fire.
Teach him the fundamental rules. Have him use a SAK supervised in the beginning. Only like this he can learn. I think the biggest risk is not your son, him you can teach, but his friends. You can't teach them all. So make sure that in the beginning your son does not carry his SAK around without you.

[comis]

I think age and responsibility are related but don't always grow proportionally.  It is probably best to give him a tool lockable blade(Wenger S series), administer his use, and then let you to keep it for him after use(in case he decides to take it to school).

[detron]

to me the age is not REALLY the issue, it is what the environment is like.

I was 5 when I had my own knife (ok a few) but I was also working on a farm, and knew the knife was a tool, not a toy.  I used it cutting bailing wire/twine, and countless other tasks.  I gave my kids a knock off SAK when they were 7.  (I dulled the blade a little more just to be safe)  I showed them how to open and close the main blade, how to ensure you never have a finger in the danger zones, and other basic precautions.

the only problem I have now is my wife being the one slowing progress.  Let me explain.

Christmas morning, my oldest was using his SAK (SAK knock off) scissors to open the wrapping paper.
I was like "YEAH, did not even tell him to bring it down".  my wife was like "you do not need to break out your knife every time you need to cut something".        bad wife 

anyway, each child matures at different rates, and other life expectations (farming, fishing, boy scout, camping, etc) can change the age to start.

[nate j]

I don't think a specific appropriate age can be identified, as it depends on how mature and responsible the individual child is, and kids develop at different rates.

I do think it is wise to have a "trial period" where he is only allowed to use it under your supervision.  This time can also be used to provide instruction on safe knife handling, and to evaluate whether/when/if he is ready to have unsupervised use of the knife.

I don't agree with the idea of blunting the blade.  As we all know, a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one, and users of dull knives develop bad habits, including using excessive force and using their thumbs to test the sharpness of blades.

With regard to knife selection, I believe the best choice for a first knife is a very small slip-joint (could be a SAK) with relatively weak back-springs and short blades.  This will minimize the injury potential in case of an accident.  (I understand why some may be moved to suggest a locking blade, but it is my belief that this is not the best choice for a beginner, since a locking knife is inherently more complicated to use than a slippie since one must manipulate the lock, and many locks require the user to put one or more fingers in the closing path of the blade in order to disengage the lock and close the knife.)  Selection of a smaller knife will likely mean compromises on tool selection, but you can always promise him the SAK of his dreams for his next birthday or something if he is able to demonstrate to you that he can handle the smaller knife safely and responsibly.

[Crow]

I cant give you age. When did you get your first knife? I say i was about 3or 4when my father ler me use his knifes under his control. I was in heaven for that. When i was about 5 or 6 i used my knife on my own. I never hurt myself, because my dad taught me to use it right. Ok sometimes, as we all we get "lovebites" cause it teaches to be careful, and use them right.

Maybe you could give one just to use with under your control... That would give him yours and his special time, and you could teach properal knife and tool use...

I would not give my child dull or knockoff knives, because those things could hurt more than real knives that really can handle things.

[Nhoj]

I got my first swiss army knife at six. I  remember that until I showed I was responsible I was with a knife I was only allowed to use the blade if I asked to. After a while this restriction was lifted. I was also taught knife safety (simple stuff like don't let the blade close on your fingers and don't walk around with the blade out). In my opinion a child should be given a sharp sak that isn't altered to be more "safe." The only way they'll learn how to be safe with one is to use one. The way kids use knives it will probably get pretty dull anyway. Of course age is a factor, but it's more about the maturity and safety the child has.

[tosh]

Well, lots of food for thought there. Thanks

I'll pick up on a few points you've all raised.

Consider a bladeless MT : I had considered that, I got 2 bladeless fuses, but I think they maybe a bit too old for him as yet.

Leave the blade sharp : This is seriously troubling me. Almost all my stuff is new, hence the blades are razor sharp. The Vic's are simply too powerful on the backspring, both for  opening and certainly for closing 

I did show him some of the Rangers - as he spotted them!
I opened the various tools and somehow slit my thumb on the can opener. Y'know the kind of slit where you just know its gone IN!! No blood for a few seconds then........

It did actually prove a point (to me as well), don't get complacent!

I've just ordered the Wenger 28.

Knowing me, I'll keep it for collection purposes      and give him a knock off,
only kiddin' 

[detron]

I don't agree with the idea of blunting the blade.  As we all know, a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one, and users of dull knives develop bad habits, including using excessive force and using their thumbs to test the sharpness of blades.

you are correct,  and I guess I should explain that I made sure the blade was not a razor.  I cut some rope and cardboard until it would not shave my arm hair.

I just did not want the first love bite to be overly viscous

[Crow]

I know what you mean about razor sharp. I would not give that to my cild. My twins are year and five months old, and they are going after my pockets already. Have been for a while now. And what is in there? My blue Climber... All the cries end when i show them that. I do let the  hold that, but never ever anywhere but under my eyes. And never nowhere near open blade whatsoever. They do know already what is cool...
I always keep my sharps inside locked draws and, locked toolboxes. But when the time comes, my childs know how tools work. And that under my supervision...

[Cupboard]

I am not a father.

I got my first SAK aged 6 and as far as I remember it was only used at certain times and it certain areas but with no particular supervision. My Grandmother's house (now my parents) has a fair amount of space and it in the middle of nowhere and that was the primary learning ground. It was used a lot for cutting bale string primarily, and my father and I built little projects in the holidays. I can remember making a raft with a friend out of string, a pallet and a load of plastic milk bottles, there was a den made out of wood, bales and some plastic sheet, that sort of thing.

In a way it helped that my dad didn't (and still doesn't) carry a knife, so every time he needed to cut something he came and asked me. He still does when I go and visit. Goodness knows what he does when I'm not there.

When we left and came back home to the city (we'd spend a few weeks there over the summer and shorter periods over the other school holidays) I kept it in its original case in a large matchbox.

I was definitely aware that this knife was special, mine and if I lost it that was that. At the time I had no money so no means to buy another.

A bit later on I went to boarding school and was left in no doubt by my mother that the knife was staying at home. By that stage I had started getting in to backstage theatre stuff, and it fairly quickly became apparent to the 13/14 year old me that I really needed a knife. Most of the other people that did stuff in the theatre carried something, a lot of them had Leathermans. With the aid of my dad I smuggled it in to school and carried it all the time I was in the theatre with my AA MiniMag.

I still have that knife. I killed the MiniMag.

On a sort of related note, it became very useful at school to have a selection of security torx bits so I could open the windows properly. In my case it was for better ventilation but I lent it to some people that I think had other intentions...

[Top-Gear-24]

Have you thought about one of these three options?

1) a bladeless MT instead of a SAK? Either set up a bladeless PPP or a LM/Gerber or
2) My first Victorinox ? Or
3) One of the Wenger Junior range?

Incidentally,Top-Gear24 did a thread some time ago about his eldest getting his first SAK

May I say that I'm quite impressed that you've remembered that .

And indeed, I started a topic about my oldest son his first SAK (a Silverline Signature/lite) that I bought for him when he was about 6.5 years old, you can find that topic here.

And I'm proud to say that both of my sons still have all their fingers, though I must say that the saw on the "my first Vic" knives is the biggest risk factor of all the tools (some blood has been spilled, a few times ...), maybe because it's also their favorite and most used tool ... 

Anyway, I've got them both a Leatherman Style PS for Christmas, so now they can think about what they're going to take with them, the "my first Vic" knives with their matching Swiss keyring led-lights, or the Style PS with their Led Lenser P3's, and most of the time they end up taking the whole bunch with them (we have a saying here that goes "zo de ouden zongen, zo piepen de jongen" which in English would be "as the old sing so the young twitter" if I'm not mistaken ...  ).

[kirk13]

That's a good idea with the Style PS. It was easy to remember the thread...it impressed me a lot at the time

[ba-ta]

I've been wondering the same thing.   I've got a three year old son who is very interested in my leatherman and pocket knife.  I remember getting my first sak when I was 5 or 6.  I think that some time in the next year I will start teaching him the basics.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I was about five when I got my first one, although I may not be the role model you want for your kids. 

Plus it was a different time in those days- nowadays kids are under such scrutiny.  I mean, we all are, but especially children.  Schools are zero tolerance zones now, and I remember as a kid when I got something new and really cool I couldn't wait to bring it to school and show everyone, and if my parents didn't want me taking something to school I took it anyway, hidden in my jacket or backpack.  I'd hate for something bad to happen to your son because he wanted to show off his latest toy only to find out the school considers it a weapon.

Since I'm not a parent I'm not really certain my opinion means much in a thread like this anyway.

Def

[AdmSlc]

I don't think a specific appropriate age can be identified, as it depends on how mature and responsible the individual child is, and kids develop at different rates.

I do think it is wise to have a "trial period" where he is only allowed to use it under your supervision.  This time can also be used to provide instruction on safe knife handling, and to evaluate whether/when/if he is ready to have unsupervised use of the knife.

I don't agree with the idea of blunting the blade.  As we all know, a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one, and users of dull knives develop bad habits, including using excessive force and using their thumbs to test the sharpness of blades.

With regard to knife selection, I believe the best choice for a first knife is a very small slip-joint (could be a SAK) with relatively weak back-springs and short blades.  This will minimize the injury potential in case of an accident.  (I understand why some may be moved to suggest a locking blade, but it is my belief that this is not the best choice for a beginner, since a locking knife is inherently more complicated to use than a slippie since one must manipulate the lock, and many locks require the user to put one or more fingers in the closing path of the blade in order to disengage the lock and close the knife.)  Selection of a smaller knife will likely mean compromises on tool selection, but you can always promise him the SAK of his dreams for his next birthday or something if he is able to demonstrate to you that he can handle the smaller knife safely and responsibly.

I completely agree with all of your points I could not say it better myself.


-AdmSlc

[tosh]

I was about five when I got my first one, although I may not be the role model you want for your kids. 

Plus it was a different time in those days- nowadays kids are under such scrutiny.  I mean, we all are, but especially children.  Schools are zero tolerance zones now, and I remember as a kid when I got something new and really cool I couldn't wait to bring it to school and show everyone, and if my parents didn't want me taking something to school I took it anyway, hidden in my jacket or backpack.  I'd hate for something bad to happen to your son because he wanted to show off his latest toy only to find out the school considers it a weapon.

Since I'm not a parent I'm not really certain my opinion means much in a thread like this anyway.

Def

Yeah' Def

I know where your coming from - I actually got sent home from school when I was about 8/9 for doing just that and as you say things were so much different then. Today, what with social services I would probably get into a whole heap of trouble were that scenario to repeat itself.

The thing is he doesn't want the blade. Just the other tools and of course those damn blaze scales. I may actually ask the help of a mod on here to help me out. It may actually be better in the long run. He'll learn all about respect for tools when he's helping me using chisels and the likes soon enough.

[CanadianLMfan]

Well, when I was 3 years old, I almost cut my finger off with my dad's knife, so I'd say older than that.

[Cupboard]

It was less than 10 years ago when I took a knife in to school for the first time. Now, I was 14 and I did have a reason to have it but I certainly wasn't the only one.

Only you can judge how mature your son is but my personal, non parental viewpoint is if he's mature enough then get him de-sensitised to them at an early age. The sooner anyone learns how to do anything responsibly without hurting themselves or others the better IMO. It may well be that mature enough doesn't come for a few years.

Once you realise that a SAK is a boring tool like any other they become far more useful and far less dangerous. And far more interesting

I just wish I'd been given a Tinker instead of a Spartan.

[Chako]

I was 6 as well when I got my first camping knife.

[Breezy12]

I have a similar issue... both my boys LOVE to look at my collection with me, and can't wait to have their own, but the older one is 6, and the younger one is 4. I got my first SAK when I was 9 or 10, if I remember correctly.

I did give the older one a Style PS for his 5th birthday, and I'm not sure who's happier with that -- him or me. He loves having his own Leatherman "to fix things with, just like Dad!" and I get a sense of pride every time I see him run to his room to get it when he needs it for something.

that being said -- watching him use it has also made me VERY glad that I gave him a knifeless model. If I had given him one with a blade, I'm sure there would have been a serious injury to himself or to his brother by now.

My plan is to let him use one of my knives (under close supervision) while we're camping this summer. oh, and little brother will probably be getting his first Style PS this summer as well.

[glorn]

I had access to knives from around 8 years old. Though I will admit that mucking about with SAKs in the woods taught me little about knife handling. Cooking is where one really learns to handle a knife.

In any case, my daughter got her first SAK on her 8th birthday. A Huntsman. She adores it. I have been teaching her to handle a knife with respect since she was about 5. You start with the basics: "This is the sharp part.. Here's how you hold it.. Always keep your eyes on the knife.. Never cut toward yourself.. It is not a toy, but a tool.. Carve away from your body and make sure your knife strokes will not extend into yourself or others.. Let the blade do the work.."

Then she was allowed to handle some of my smaller folders. Do some whittling on sticks. Started to learn to remove bark from a stick. Always under my supervision, and she was never allowed to have the knife while alone.

But at the same time, she was always using kitchen knives as well. Slice up a banana... Some mushrooms..

By 8 she had developed basic skills, had a reverence and respect for the knife, followed the rules well, and wrote at school about how much she enjoyed whittling sticks. I knew it was time. She is allowed to keep her SAK, but knows never to take it to school or show her friends. I explained to her that her friends may not have the same experience she does and as such might harm themselves if she hands it to them.

So far she has been bitten only once, and it was a tiny thing. Not much more than a pin prick really. She didn't even cry or ask for a bandage. Nice clean little cut due to the sharp blade, and it closed almost immediately. Her only comment was that she must pay closer attention, then she resumed whittling a point onto her stick.

Teach them young, take your time, plan your approach and your rules, make sure you yourself have refreshed your own skills and won't pass bad habits, teach respect for a valuable and useful tool, and for heavens sake.. give them a properly sharp blade or else they will never learn.

I learned without an adult around. I cut myself and I bled and I learned.

I still have ten whole, normal, and functional fingers.

[WhichDawg]

I remember my first knife, I was like 10 or so. it was that survival knife (sold on TV)

looked like this:

only not as nice/clean and broke in half the first time I tried to use it!

your a good dad and your child will learn good habits and appreciate good things

errr can I be your kid too, I hardly soil myself now and I don't eat much (when your lookin) 

good luck with the joys and bonding you will have and please keep sharing with us