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LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)

Offline Leatherman123

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LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
on: April 21, 2009, 08:26:42 PM
Hey guys, I am going to do a comparison review of the TTi and the Spirit. One could say that they are the best medium sized tools, and I'd agree with that 100%. In this comparison review, I am going to prove why I think the TTi is the superior multi-tool. I am going to be as fair as possible and not hold a bias towards LM. (like I did in my Core vs. SwissTool comparison some time ago :P)

Price- The Charge TTi's is about $120 at Kittery Trading Post. One could find them for about $100 on eBay and other sites like Amazon. But, $120 is what I paid at that particular point in time. The Charge comes with an S30V PE blade, Ti handles, a diamond coated file, a pocket clip, lanyard ring (both fixed and removable), a six piece bit assortment, and a premium sheath (nylon). So, you get a lot of expensive materials for the price paid.  I paid $68 for my Spirit at the time (Kittery Trading Post) and that included a Victorinox Rally knife, a premium sheath (nylon). The Spirit can be had for $50 on eBay and Amazon. But, that's what I paid at the time of purchase. The Spirit is cheaper but you get a lot more with the Charge like premium materials and extra accessories. So, I am going to call this a tie. Sure the Spirit's cheaper but the TTi has premium materials- that's why it's $120. (Charge TTi- 1 / Spirit 1)

Sheath- The TTi and the Spirit both come with fantastic nylon sheaths. The Spirit's sheath vinyl with a nylon covering and it has the Vic logo riveted on the front. The Spirit's nylon sheath can only carry the tool vertically: no horizontal carry option is provided.  The Charge sheath blows it away, IMO. It has both vertical and horizontal carry options, the LM logo rivited on the front, the ability to open the tool either closed or with the pliers deployed, and compartments to hold accessories like two side panels that can hold small flashlights, pens, sharpeners, and the like. The LM sheath also has a spot to put the bit cards. One can put two cards in the back, but the sheath is significantly bulkier. So, the TTi's sheath wins hands down (Charge TTi- 2 / Spirit 1)

Quality- Both of these tools are both of excellent quality. But, the Spirit wins, hands down. The Spirit is a lot more elegant. Everything clicks open and close and has a mirror polish finish. The Charge isn't a slouch, but it's no competition. ( Charge TTi- 2 / Spirit- 2)

Implement Deployment- The Spirit has all of it's implements on the outside. This is extremely handy, but the Charge takes it to another level. All of the Charge's "long" tools can be opened on the outside. This means the blades, file, and saw can be opened on the outside. The inner tools are stored inside the handle. Which is really no big deal to be honest with you. The Charge's two blades can be opened one handed and that is a deal breaker for me. The ability to open the blades one handed is extremely advantageous. So, one handed opening blades is better than all outside opening tools, IMO. So, the Charge wins- hands down. This is the reason why I carry a Charge/Wave/SURGE- one hand opening blades is extremely important to me. So, the Charge is the clear winner here. (Charge TTi- 3 / Spirit- 2)

Knife blade(s)- The Standard Spirit has one knife blade. On the forum, it has been called a "peanut butter" blade! I actually really like it. It cuts very well. However, the Charge is a clear winner again. The Charge has two blades which can be opened one handed, the best parts are that the main blade is made of S30v and the serrated blade has a cutting hook! That is another deal breaker for me. I use the cutting hook daily. The Spirit isn't a slouch, but there's no competition. (Charge TTi- 4 / Spirit- 2)

Saw- Both of the tools both come with excellent wood saws. The TTi's saw teeth have a bias pointing inward and the Sprit's saw has no bias at all. This is a definite tie. (Charge TTi- 5 / Spirit 3)

File- Both of these tools come with an excellent file. The Spirit's file is extremely aggressive and the teeth go all the way to the tip!  :o However, the Charge's diamond coated file blows it away. LM's files are the best in the business, hands down! So, the Charge wins here. The Spirit gets honorable mention because the teeth go all the way to the tip- therefore I am giving the Spirit a point as well! (Charge TTi- 6 / Spirit- 4) I really wish Victorinox would make the SwissTool/SAK files have teeth all the way to the tip..

Screwdrivers- IMO, this is the Spirit's major flaw. With the mirror polish finish in mind, the screwdrivers are extremely slippery and they are not rounded off properly. The TTi has LM's bit driver which is excellent and the bits work extremely well. The Charge also has an eyeglass driver that is extremely handy. The Charge wins here... (Charge TTi- 7 / Spirit- 4)

Awl- The Charge doesn't have an awl, so the Spirit is the clear winner. However, I have an awl that goes in LM's bit driver. But still, the Spirit wins! (Charge TTi- 7 / Spirit-5)

Scissors- I have to admit, the Spirit's scissors don't open very wide. However, they cut very well. But the LM works just work better IMO because they can cut larger materials and they can be sharpened when the time comes! So, the Charge is the winner here. ( Charge TTi- 8 / Spirit- 5)

Versatility- This is where the Charge really shines. The Charge has bit drivers and multiple carry options. The LM bit driver is extremely versatile. You can can carry a multitude of bits that work extremely well. The Charge also has the ability of carrying it in the sheath, by using the pocket clip, or by attaching some cord or a carabiner to the removable lanyard ring. The Charge also has a fixed lanyard ring.. Without buying the Spirit Plus, you only get the tool... So, the Charge is the winner here. ( Charge TTi- 9 / Spirit- 5)

Bottle/can openers- This is where the Spirit really shines. The Vic can opener is extremely versatile, and the bottle opener can be used as a crate opener. Plus, the bottle/can openers work extremely well. The LM's work fine, but the Spirit's are above the competition. So, the Spirit wins! (Charge- 9 / Sprit- 6)

Wire strippers- The Spirit is a clear winner here. The Spirit has SO many different wire applications. It has an isolation cutter, a wire bender, a wire stripper, and a wire scraper! (Charge TTi- 9 / Spirit- 7)

Locking Mechanisms- The locking mechanisms are both excellent on both tools. The Charge has liner locks for the blades and "push" button lock mechanism for the inner tools. The Spirit's implements all are locked from a sliding mechanism. I remember reading the Spirit's lock's fail while using the awl as an ice pick.. It's definitely a tie! (Charge TTi- 10 / Spirit- 8)

Plier head- The Spirit has a hybrid blunt/needlenose plier head and the Charge has needlenose. I prefer the Charge because needlenose pliers are far more versatile. You also get a crimper on the pliers. So, the Charge wins in my book. (Charge TTi- 11 / Spirit- 8)

Wire Cutters- The wirecutters on both tools work well. But, the Charge has a slight edge because they cut wire far more cleanly. The Spirit bites then cuts and the Charge just slices. So, the Charge wins. (Charge TTi- 12 / Spirit- 8)

Quality of Engineering- The Spirit wins here, hands down. The Spirit is like a precision instrument, everything clicks! The Swiss also incorporate many different tool functions into a single implement. Whereas LM's philosophy is that each implement has one function, but that one function is going to work phenomenally. The Spirit wins here. (Charge TTi- 12 / Spirit- 9)

Ergonomics- They are both extremely comfortable to hold and use. The Spirit is more comfortable in the pliers deployed position and the Charge is more comfortable in the closed position!  :) So, it's a tie! (Charge TTi- 13 / Spirit 10)

Extras- The Charge has a lot of extras that you don't ordinarily see on a multitool like a cutting hook, S30V blade steel, a diamond file, Ti scales, and a bit driver. The Spirit has a lot of unique implement like 595885 different wire implements! This is a tie, folks! (Charge TTi- 14 / Spirit- 11)

So there's my take on the two tools. They are both wonderful. But, the premium materials, versatility, extra accessories, and the one handed blades of the Charge win me over. The Spirit is a good tool, but I truly believe the Charge is a better overall tool. The Spirit is put together, but the Charge's implements work better, IMO of course.  So, the Charge is the winner here. But, as I said the Spirit's no slouch. So, feel free to add comments and critique mine! Thanks

 :)


« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 09:08:12 PM by Leatherman123 »
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hn Offline cliosguy

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #1 on: April 21, 2009, 08:42:45 PM
i was gonna say: "pics???!!! :pok: " but then i read again the name of the author :)

you do have some good points there buddy im lucky(like many here in this forum) that i dont need to make a choice 8) but i guess for someone that can only get one tool the price/functionality radio is gonna work for the spirit TBS you do get more expensive materials with the charge that justify the price but for some people those expensive materials arent that necesary, the good old "victorinox stainless steel" is all that they need IMHO
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Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 08:45:43 PM
LOL, yeah, I see your point. But, the slippery drivers (IMO) are the Spirit's biggest downfall! I think I was very fair to the Spirit. I even gave it a few extra points!  :D
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hn Offline cliosguy

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 08:48:55 PM
yeah i think it was fair :tu: but to TBH the first MT that i bought was a spirit :cheers:
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um Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 09:02:21 PM
I have an ALX so similar but not exactly like the TTi.  I would agree that functionally, I prefer the Charge ALX.  The hook and exchangeable bits are hugely helpful.  Also, for me, a pointed blade is generally more useful, although the Spirit butter knife has never let me down.

The pocket clip is a big plus for EDC purposes.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, but I ran into while installing a window is the Vic mini-ratchet.  Yes, it works well and takes standard 1/4 bits BUT,

If you have to bear down on the screw/bolt, the bit will push all the way through the ratchet handle, which is a bit of a pain.

So, for me, the pocket clip, cutting hook and integral bit drivers are the deciding factors in favor of the Charge. 

Blade material and blade shape favor the Charge, but are less important.  Beautiful finish is definitely the Vic strong suit, as are the various chisel/blade surfaces, but they don't outweigh the positives of the Charge.


Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 09:06:29 PM
That reminds me, I forgot to mention ergonomics!  ::)  :D
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us Offline Poncho65

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 03:31:22 AM
Great comparison LM123 :salute: I don't have either tool but I feel I have a better understanding of both tools and I would feel confident in owning either one :tu:


Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 03:37:05 AM
Thanks for the kind words, Ponch!  :)
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us Offline donvito

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 03:50:06 AM
I have an ALX so similar but not exactly like the TTi.  I would agree that functionally, I prefer the Charge ALX.  The hook and exchangeable bits are hugely helpful.  Also, for me, a pointed blade is generally more useful, although the Spirit butter knife has never let me down.

The pocket clip is a big plus for EDC purposes.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, but I ran into while installing a window is the Vic mini-ratchet.  Yes, it works well and takes standard 1/4 bits BUT,

If you have to bear down on the screw/bolt, the bit will push all the way through the ratchet handle, which is a bit of a pain.

So, for me, the pocket clip, cutting hook and integral bit drivers are the deciding factors in favor of the Charge. 

Blade material and blade shape favor the Charge, but are less important.  Beautiful finish is definitely the Vic strong suit, as are the various chisel/blade surfaces, but they don't outweigh the positives of the Charge.

There's an extension that goes into the ratchet creating an L shape and keeps it from passing through. Mine came with one, but I did buy the ratchet kit separately from my Spirit.  :cheers:


Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 05:34:23 PM
Wow, this took me such a long time and barely anyone replied!  :ahhh
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us Offline Buzzbait

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 09:05:00 PM
I feel quite different. This is coming from more of a minimalist type of person though, and a long time tactical knife carrier. For me, the Spirit is the perfect compliment to a quality tactical folder. On the other hand, the Charge's most unique benefits would be mere redundancies for me.

Price - The Spirit costs half of what the Charge goes for. The Spirit easily wins. Leatherman would have a include an extra free Charge to win this one.

Sheath - I really do prefer the Spirit leather sheath that I have. It is MUCH smaller than the Charge sheath, which I love. I don't like to look like a walking toolbox, so the Spirit sheath is perfect. Anybody would think that it was just a nice cell phone pouch.

Quality - The obvious choice is the Spirit. Leatherman tools are generally pretty rough when it comes to fit and finish nowadays.

Implement Deployment - The Spirit is the easy winner for me. All of the tools open from the outside. I hate opening my multitool to get to the goodies. One-hand opening of a knife blade means nothing to me, as I always carry a full-sized tactical folder in my front right hand pocket.

Knife Blades - As I already have an excellent one-hand knife blade in my front pocket, the 154CM of the Charge is lost on me. Actually, I prefer the Victorinox butterknife blade. It is far more corrosion resistant than 154CM. It is ground thinner to cut more efficiently than the Charge. And while 154CM is more abrasion resistant, the Victorinox steel is tougher and less likely to chip out. The Vic will tend to deform instead of chip, and can be steeled back into place. For me, the clear winner is the Spirit. The Spirit's blade is perfect for those chores that might damage the blade on my tactical folder.

Saw - Tie. They both work fine.

File - The diamond file of the Charge wins by a large margin.

Metal Saw - The Charge metal saw is pretty close to useless. The Spirit saw is a FAR more efficient cutting tool.

Screwdrivers - The Spirit's screwdrivers are a bit too polished from the factory, but 5 minutes with a file cures that issue entirely. Just square them off. The Philips driver (the ones that gets used 90% of the time) on the Spirit has a much longer throw than the bit driver on the Charge, making it much more useful. It is also practically indestructible, where the Charge bit driver is relatively weak in comparison. The Spirit's other drivers also have functions beyond that of the flathead, thus increasing their usefulness. Advantage Spirit.

Awl - The Spirit actually has one.

Scissors - Both the Charge and the Spirit have pretty lousy scissors, in comparison to other multitools and SAKs. I rate them both as evenly lousy. They'll do in a pinch, but I'd rather have my Micra.

Versatility - The included bit driver and pocket clip on the Charge are awesomely versatile. They win over the extra tools found on the Spirit.

Bottle and Can Openers - Both can openers work great for me, but I prefer the cap lifter of the Spirit.

Wire Strippers - Tons of strippers on the Spirit. And as we all know, the world needs more strippers.  ;)

Locking Mechanisms - I'll take the Spirit on this one. The detents of the liner locks on the Charge are absolutely ridiculous.

Plier Head - I've heard of too many broken Leatherman plier heads. I love the Charge's needlenose design, but Victorinox makes positively bomb proof plier heads. I'll take a blunt plier over a broken plier any day.

Wire cutters - Definitely the Charge.

Engineering - I actually rate both tools very closely. Too close to call. Leatherman adds some very small details that some people might never notice, but are actually quite ingenious. How Vic managed to fit so many functions into the Spirit is beyond my comprehension.

Ergonomics - I like the feel of both tools. Tie.

Extras - I can't comment, as I've never tried the Vic extras.



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hn Offline cliosguy

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 09:09:26 PM


Wire Strippers - Tons of strippers on the Spirit. And as we all know, the world needs more strippers.  ;)



testify brother :cheers: :D :D
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Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 12:06:02 AM
Hey Buzzbait, thanks for replying! In personally have never had a LM plier head break, but ALL my SwissTool/Spirit tools have  developed plier head pivot play within the first couple of uses.  IMO, the sheath rides too high on the belt, and it pokes you in the side when you sit.. And, it's base layer is made of vinyl! The Spirit's philips driver is not tougher than the LM's and it's not even close to indestructible. After the first use, my philips driver already showed signs of stripping! It's made out of softer steel, so it's obviously going to strip quite easily. I don't think the Spirit's blade cuts better than a 154CM blade, and the steel is not tougher; it's much softer. The Charge's scissors are definitely superior to the Spirit's; you can't even sharpen the Spirit's! This is all IMO by the way.

BTW, the Charge doesn't have a metal file.  :)
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Offline rockyman500

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 12:09:21 AM
that LM bit driver can take a lot of torque before it even flexes...
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Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #14 on: April 25, 2009, 12:11:19 AM
I know, I have torqued the crap out of them and nothing. I have torqued the Spirit's philips and I got slippage!
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us Offline Buzzbait

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #15 on: April 25, 2009, 03:31:54 AM
Great comments. I always like a fun debate.

The Spirit's philips driver is not tougher than the LM's and it's not even close to indestructible. After the first use, my philips driver already showed signs of stripping!

Did you square the driver first? I don't think that I've ever had slippage on mine, since squaring the head. And try using both Philips as an impromptu prybar. I bet the Spirit's Philips driver survives longer. That bit holder is not going to hold up well under a lateral load.

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I don't think the Spirit's blade cuts better than a 154CM blade, and the steel is not tougher; it's much softer.

The vernier scale does not lie. The Spirit's blade grind is far more efficient than the Charge's. It is a simple matter of mathematics.

Toughness has little to do with RC hardness. Think of this way. Build two hatchets, one out of Victorinox stainless and the other out of 154CM. Then use the hatchets to cut some nasty hard knotty wood. The Vic steel hatchet will fair much better, with probably some major edge rolling. This can be steeled back into place. The 154CM hatchet will quickly rip and chip and become unusable. 154CM is an adequate steel for small to medium sized cutting blades, bust does not do well in abusive situations. This is the trade-off to 154CM's superior abrasion resistance. When carrying a tactical folder with excellent abrasion resistance, I prefer a tougher and more corrosion resistant steel for my "beater blade".

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BTW, the Charge doesn't have a metal file.

I don't understand. Where did I say that the Charge has a metal file?

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IMO, the sheath rides too high on the belt, and it pokes you in the side when you sit.. And, it's base layer is made of vinyl!

Huh? My Spirit's leather sheath is made of leather, with some sort of cloth insert to cover up the rear seam of the leather. I do agree on the Spirit sheath riding a tad high though.

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england Offline DaveK

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #16 on: April 25, 2009, 03:36:51 AM
I really don't know where to start. I'll keep it short.

There is nothing about the Spirit that is in any way superior to anything on the Charge. Whether you look at the technical specifications or actually try to use the tools, one is clearly a better tool than the other, i.e. the Charge.

That is all.




Oh, IMO of course.
I used to come here a lot.


Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #17 on: April 25, 2009, 03:44:26 AM
Buzzbait, I meant to say metal saw! I was speaking on behalf of the nylon sheath. If I ever had to pry I would use the large flat head driver or the prybar on the Spirit!  :pok:  :D The philips driver isn't meant for prying anyways!

I have used both tools on numerous occasions, and the Charge just works better, IMO. Sure, the Spirit has better rust resistance and a few other minor advantages, but the Charge is the king, IMO. The Spirit's blade gets dull extremely quickly.

We are talking about knives not hatchets that will be used for chopping!  :)

I would love to keep this a fun debate, so keep it coming!  :D
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us Offline Crouton

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #18 on: April 25, 2009, 03:50:09 AM
I have a TTi which I love and use daily.  It's design and engineering make it the most useful multi out there for me.

I also have a Spirit which I love, but can't see myself ever carrying daily.  I often take it out and play with and I am endlessly amazed at the precision snap when it closes and the snap when the implements are closed.  The polished finish is slippery and shows the slightest amount of grime or dirt.

That having been said I think the fit and finish on the Swiss Spirit is a cut above the TTi in all respects.  It is a very tight precise tool, but that doesn't make it better, or more useful.

The TTi is the pound for pound best multi on the market (for me).

Nice comparison LM123.
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us Offline Buzzbait

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #19 on: April 25, 2009, 04:09:38 AM
Buzzbait, I meant to say metal saw!

You're right. The Charge does not have a metal saw. It has an insignificantly toothy edge on the file.  :pok: The Spirit is actually toothy enough that they advertise it as a metal saw. It rocks for cutting stuff that isn't made of wood. It's not as efficient as a Rem Grit blade, but it is very good.

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I was speaking on behalf of the nylon sheath.

I've never tried the Vic nylon sheath. The leather sheath rocks the house down. Very nice quality. Very classy looking. Much more distinguished looking than anything offered by Leatherman.

Quote
If I ever had to pry I would use the large flat head driver or the prybar on the Spirit!  :pok:  Grin The philips driver isn't meant for prying anyways!

Sometimes you have no choice. I was in my office last month, fitting a new backup unit to an IBM server. The unit took up 2 full external drive bays, so I had to pry the "between the bay" tabs outward. The pliers didn't fit, and the slots in the frame were too small and round to fit the Spirit prybar. I popped in the Philips driver and pried the tabs outward. I seriously don't think that the Charge could have done the job, even if the bit did not slip out of the bit holder.

The Spirit does an excellent job of having a tool for every job. It may not be the perfect or proper tool the job, but the job can be done. IMHO, the Charge does not let you think outside the box, the way that the Spirit does. McGuyver would love the Spirit. It's a cob artist's wet dream. I'll save the Charge for Handy Manny, or one of those "proper tool for the job" kind of guys.
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Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #20 on: April 25, 2009, 04:12:12 AM
I see what you mean, the Charge has tools that work: and the Spirit's require you to improvise in order for them to work! :D  ;)
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us Offline Buzzbait

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #21 on: April 25, 2009, 04:13:45 AM
Oops. Forgot about this one.

Quote
We are talking about knives not hatchets that will be used for chopping!


True, but my beater blade does a lot more than cutting cardboard. It is the sacrificial lamb in knifedom. When the edge will be contacting metal or porcelain or ceramics, the butter knife comes out to play!!!!
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Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #22 on: April 25, 2009, 04:22:47 AM
I think you are implying that the S30V would chip in this scenario. I have used my S30V blade for some hard tasks and I haven't had any chips. I think if the heat treatment on the blade is poor it is more susceptible to chipping. But still, I see what you mean. However, even if the Spirit isn't your primary blade, it's still extremely convenient to have OHO on your MT. If I regularly had to cut things where the edge would be contacting metal, porcelain, or ceramics I would carry a pocket utility knife. Like a miniature SuperKnife.

Another thing I forgot to mention, the Spirit's tools are impossible to open with gloves on!  :)

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england Offline DaveK

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #23 on: April 25, 2009, 11:38:01 PM
Right. I had a few things to do around the house today, so thought I'd decide once and for all if the Spirit comes close to the Charge in anything at all.

To cut a long story short, it has an awl (which I never seem to need) and it's cheaper. That's all it really has going for it compared to the Charge.

Drivers - Charge.
Blades - Charge.
Saw - Charge (what's the point in having a saw that short with 1/4" at the tip having no teeth? Literally and figuratively - pointless).
File - Charge
Scissors - my spirit doesn't have any, but I assume they're similar to the Swisstool and SAKs, so - Charge.
Ease of access to tools - Charge
Options for practical carry - Charge.
Utility of pliers - Charge (with crimper and proper needle nose)

Some of these things are personal preference sure, but some of them are facts! Why carry a seperate knife to compensate for the Spirit's as has been suggested, when the Charge gives you a premium PE and a 440C SE? Why faff about getting at a small blade, when you can open the Charge's blades as quickly as an AO dedicated blade?

I can see that some people think this "fit and finish" (which is just another word for pretty I guess) is something special, but I simply don't get that at all. Can somebody explain to me, one thing that the Spirit does better than a Charge that makes you all think it's a better tool? I really cannot see it  ???
I used to come here a lot.


scotland Offline Nikos

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #24 on: April 25, 2009, 11:51:45 PM
Can somebody explain to me, one thing that the Spirit does better than a Charge that makes you all think it's a better tool? I really cannot see it  ???

No need/use to, as:
Some of these things are personal preference sure

::)

For me, the Charge has an edge with its OH premium steel blades and diamond-coated file but that's about all the practical plus's of the TTi. I have no use for titanium handles (gimmicky imho), a cap crimper, a belt sheath, etc. OTOH the Spirit is more pocket friendly (slimmer + lighter), and I like its drivers, plier head and blade shape more. That said, my TTi is a keeper and my companion when in the bush but for the rest 95% of my time that i'm in an urban environment, the Spirit is a much better match.

In the end of the day, it all boils down to: YMMV.


england Offline DaveK

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #25 on: April 26, 2009, 12:06:18 AM
Can somebody explain to me, one thing that the Spirit does better than a Charge that makes you all think it's a better tool? I really cannot see it  ???

No need/use to, as:
Some of these things are personal preference sure

::)

For me, the Charge has an edge with its OH premium steel blades and diamond-coated file but that's about all the practical plus's of the TTi. I have no use for titanium handles (gimmicky imho), a cap crimper, a belt sheath, etc. OTOH the Spirit is more pocket friendly (slimmer + lighter), and I like its drivers, plier head and blade shape more. That said, my TTi is a keeper and my companion when in the bush but for the rest 95% of my time that i'm in an urban environment, the Spirit is a much better match.

In the end of the day, it all boils down to: YMMV.

No sorry Noth - these things aren't about opinion. The term "opinion" is what we use on this forum to pass off our bias sometimes, and I'm getting totally cheesed off with the bias at the moment. The facts to back up some of the statements on here aren't exactly flowing are they? Let's talk about the facts.

I'll grant you that the Spirit is slimmer, but the weight difference is negligible.

What do you like more about the drivers, pliers , blade shape etc? They are less substantial, and definitely less effective. I can and have tried both, and the Charge simply performs better.

The blade is bigger and stronger.

The pliers are longer, have a better needle nose to them and a bigger cutting area.

The drivers are less slippy, and simply work better.

The Spirit is a decent tool sure, but the way people get orgasmic about it and claim it to be the "best multitool" available is clearly a flawed view. If it really is that good, why don't they sell that many of them?
I used to come here a lot.


Offline rockyman500

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #26 on: April 26, 2009, 12:12:50 AM
some strong points there DaveK...
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Offline Leatherman123

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #27 on: April 26, 2009, 12:18:52 AM
Buzzbait, regarding the metal saw, I remember reading that it's really for emergencies only as it dulls very quickly.
B


scotland Offline Nikos

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #28 on: April 26, 2009, 01:26:15 AM
No sorry Noth - these things aren't about opinion. The term "opinion" is what we use on this forum to pass off our bias sometimes, and I'm getting totally cheesed off with the bias at the moment.

Dave, I can tell you're pissed off, although I don't know why... I hope it wasn't my post that caused this outbreak.

My main point was that the things you deem more important may be only marginal to others. All this "what's the best multitool" talk makes no sense, since every one of us has a different use pattern, different carry methods, and different tool combos hauled around. E.g. someone who is used to tactical folders will find the Charge blades "just not enough" for his taste and could couple his MT with some big, mean, mucho folder to fit his needs. People not accustomed to such knife types could find OH opening blades to be more "threatening" and would probably go with a two-hander such as the Spirit. Anyway, this was just an example. More on this shortly.

I'll grant you that the Spirit is slimmer, but the weight difference is negligible.

Well, I never took a scale to it but I know what my Spirit and TTi feel like when carried in my RF pocket and I do prefer the former over the latter. If I went back to belt sheath or pocket clip carry, the TTi would be the winner.

What do you like more about the drivers, pliers , blade shape etc? They are less substantial, and definitely less effective. I can and have tried both, and the Charge simply performs better.

The fact that they're more substantial doesn't necessarily make them a better match for all situations.

For example:
The blade is bigger and stronger.

Agreed... However that, coupled with its OH-ness, will also make it "scarier" around NKP. Moreover, there are situations where a sheepsfoot blade is better than any pointed one. Plus, an S30V or 154CM blade will keep an edge longer but that doesn't mean they're "stronger" per se...

The pliers are longer, have a better needle nose to them and a bigger cutting area.

Agreed. However, I prefer the somewhat wider nose of the Spirit for my day-to-day tasks, and of the wire cutting areas its the hard wire one that sees the most use, so the size is not that much of a factor for me.

The drivers are less slippy, and simply work better.

They are less slippy out of the box, but they are also shorter and (if you factor in the width of the driver) stubbier. You can get the bit extender to fight that, but then you can also get the Vic bit kit. Plus, it's a 5' job with a file to take the slippy effect away from the Vic drivers. That doesn't make the Vic drivers better, but what I want to point it is that both implementations have their pros and cons, period.

The Spirit is a decent tool sure, but the way people get orgasmic about it and claim it to be the "best multitool" available is clearly a flawed view. If it really is that good, why don't they sell that many of them?

I don't know how many Spirits or Charges are sold per time unit, although I'd be interested in learning. In any case, sales volume has never been a metric for a good design in my book. I could recite a fair number of excellent designs, from computer architectures to cars to tools, that are now lying at the bottom of some garbage bin because they didn't sell enough. Granted, some people may jump around at the sound of Spirit's name, but there are also people doing the same for Charge's and Powerassist's etc. Take a SOG guy to make a PA-vs-whatever comparison and he may well come out with the PA being the best multitool available. Even you could compare a Charge (imo the best LM ever) to some of your other favorite LMs (ST/ST 200? Pulse? Wave?) and end up concluding its the other tool that is the best.

For me the best tool is the one that both can do what you want to do and is there when you need it. I'll just say this once more: Your Mileage May Vary.


Offline rockyman500

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Re: LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)
Reply #29 on: April 26, 2009, 01:32:15 AM
DUCK AND COVER! this is gonna get ugly... :D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 01:49:31 AM by rockyman500 »
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