Victorinox: When those changes occurred ?

Ninjaz · **on:** May 22, 2009, 11:59:09 AM

Maybe someone know when they changes occurred ?
Cap lifter got a little bump to make it harder to close:

Scissors handle became thinner in the end:

What I can tell is that changes made between 1997 and 2003 (1997 ann. SwissChamp have the "old" style and knives I got in 2003 already have the "new" parts) and the Scissors change was after the cap lifter (I got a CyberTool 34 that I got in 2002 that got the "new" cap lifter but the "old" scissors).

If anyone know more details please share.

Neil · **Reply #1 on:** May 22, 2009, 12:15:31 PM

No idea, sorry. I'd never even noticed the change in the scissor handle.

Ninjaz · **Reply #2 on:** May 22, 2009, 12:20:19 PM

Maybe you got anniversary Victorinox SAKs (VSAKCS (I got all except 2000) / SOSAK / Other) and you can look on them ? They got years on them.
(All the VSAKCS ann. knives I got have the new style cap lifter and scissors in them - if they got cap lifter or scissors - so changes must be before 2002)

Neil · **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2009, 12:26:52 PM

Quote from: Ninjaz on May 22, 2009, 12:20:19 PM

Maybe you got anniversary Victorinox SAKs (VSAKCS (I got all except 2000) / SOSAK / Other) and you can look on them ? They got years on them.
(All the VSAKCS ann. knives I got have the new style cap lifter and scissors in them - if they got cap lifter or scissors - so changes must be before 2002)

I don't have any. In fact I've only just got around to joining.

Ninjaz · **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2009, 12:34:34 PM

Quote from: Neil on May 22, 2009, 12:26:52 PM

Quote from: Ninjaz on May 22, 2009, 12:20:19 PM
Maybe you got anniversary Victorinox SAKs (VSAKCS (I got all except 2000) / SOSAK / Other) and you can look on them ? They got years on them.
(All the VSAKCS ann. knives I got have the new style cap lifter and scissors in them - if they got cap lifter or scissors - so changes must be before 2002)

I don't have any. In fact I've only just got around to joining.

NP. One of the good thing about ann. knives is that you know in which year they made and they can help you in this kind of investigation

BIG-TARGET · **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2009, 02:24:00 PM

I think it's an evil conspiracy by the Pocketknife Illuminati?

stressmaster5000 · **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2009, 06:28:27 PM

Quote from: Ninjaz on May 22, 2009, 12:34:34 PM

NP. One of the good thing about ann. knives is that you know in which year they made and they can help you in this kind of investigation

One flaw in your reasoning is you presume they use all the parts they make in a year in the same year. They do not as previously found out. Some older tools and parts that were phased out were found in knives made several years after they were removed from the lineup.

The reason? I think its maybe due to the warranty, they need older parts sometimes in order to fix older knives and sometimes they end up using some older parts in manufacturing the new knives as well. A good illustration would be the "Bail". When it was originally removed from the lineup, there were many knives still produced with them. I suppose they had a surplus of them and continued to use them in the manufacture process until they were gone.

James Christian's website mentions this in a couple of his notes.

Ninjaz · **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:44:00 PM

Quote from: stressmaster5000 on May 22, 2009, 06:28:27 PM

Quote from: Ninjaz on May 22, 2009, 12:34:34 PM

NP. One of the good thing about ann. knives is that you know in which year they made and they can help you in this kind of investigation
One flaw in your reasoning is you presume they use all the parts they make in a year in the same year. They do not as previously found out. Some older tools and parts that were phased out were found in knives made several years after they were removed from the lineup.

The reason? I think its maybe due to the warranty, they need older parts sometimes in order to fix older knives and sometimes they end up using some older parts in manufacturing the new knives as well. A good illustration would be the "Bail". When it was originally removed from the lineup, there were many knives still produced with them. I suppose they had a surplus of them and continued to use them in the manufacture process until they were gone.

James Christian's website mentions this in a couple of his notes.

Yeah you right. I know that what happens but I looks on that in the other way - meaning if the anniversary knife already got the new parts then they must be made before the anniversary knife.
So those changes made before 2002/03 because the ann. knives I got already got the new parts.

skydan · **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:21:13 AM

Oh flipping heck. You think you've examined every bit of your SAK and someone unearths something new. I will have to examine all my SAKs but I think you're right that the lip on the bottle opener is a new feature. '99 Ranger doesn't have it. Pre -2005 Voyager (and others) does have it. Wonder what it's purpose is?

Ok, here's something I've just discovered: there is a groove on the underside of the moving part of the scissors (the bit in contact with the spring). Those Swiss think of everything...

Nikos · **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:27:11 AM

Quote from: skydan on May 23, 2009, 12:21:13 AM

Oh flipping heck. You think you've examined every bit of your SAK and someone unearths something new. I will have to examine all my SAKs but I think you're right that the lip on the bottle opener is a new feature. '99 Ranger doesn't have it. Pre -2005 Voyager (and others) does have it. Wonder what it's purpose is?

A better snap/lock-up at the 90^o position?

cliosguy · **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:28:44 AM

Quote from: skydan on May 23, 2009, 12:21:13 AM

Oh flipping heck. You think you've examined every bit of your SAK and someone unearths something new. I will have to examine all my SAKs but I think you're right that the lip on the bottle opener is a new feature. '99 Ranger doesn't have it. Pre -2005 Voyager (and others) does have it. Wonder what it's purpose is?

Ok, here's something I've just discovered: there is a groove on the underside of the moving part of the scissors (the bit in contact with the spring). Those Swiss think of everything...

doesnt that always been there?(honestly i dont know

)

skydan · **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2009, 01:04:42 AM

Quote from: cliosguy on May 23, 2009, 12:28:44 AM

Quote from: skydan on May 23, 2009, 12:21:13 AM
Oh flipping heck. You think you've examined every bit of your SAK and someone unearths something new. I will have to examine all my SAKs but I think you're right that the lip on the bottle opener is a new feature. '99 Ranger doesn't have it. Pre -2005 Voyager (and others) does have it. Wonder what it's purpose is?

Ok, here's something I've just discovered: there is a groove on the underside of the moving part of the scissors (the bit in contact with the spring). Those Swiss think of everything...

doesnt that always been there?(honestly i dont know )

It probably has - I've just never noticed until today. (Don't ask me to be a witness or anything critical)

cliosguy · **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2009, 01:05:18 AM

Quote from: skydan on May 23, 2009, 01:04:42 AM

Quote from: cliosguy on May 23, 2009, 12:28:44 AM
Quote from: skydan on May 23, 2009, 12:21:13 AM
Oh flipping heck. You think you've examined every bit of your SAK and someone unearths something new. I will have to examine all my SAKs but I think you're right that the lip on the bottle opener is a new feature. '99 Ranger doesn't have it. Pre -2005 Voyager (and others) does have it. Wonder what it's purpose is?

Ok, here's something I've just discovered: there is a groove on the underside of the moving part of the scissors (the bit in contact with the spring). Those Swiss think of everything...

doesnt that always been there?(honestly i dont know )

It probably has - I've just never noticed until today. (Don't ask me to be a witness or anything critical)

LOL

Neil · **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2009, 01:23:25 AM

Quote from: cliosguy on May 23, 2009, 12:28:44 AM

doesnt that always been there?(honestly i dont know )

Nope, and don't ask me when it was introduced, I don't know

Sean · **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2009, 01:35:42 AM

It never ceases to amaze me how observant some of you guys are.

I just never get that close and personal with most of my stuff to be able to pick those out. Come to think of it, it's a common complaint my gf has with me.

Gareth · **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2009, 02:19:24 AM

Quote from: noth on May 23, 2009, 12:27:11 AM

Quote from: skydan on May 23, 2009, 12:21:13 AM
Oh flipping heck. You think you've examined every bit of your SAK and someone unearths something new. I will have to examine all my SAKs but I think you're right that the lip on the bottle opener is a new feature. '99 Ranger doesn't have it. Pre -2005 Voyager (and others) does have it. Wonder what it's purpose is?

A better snap/lock-up at the 90^o position?

Actually I think it's to provide a better lock-up when fully open. Lets you apply more pressure before you are in danger of it folding back at you as the hump hooks into a shape on the backspring. That's my theory anyway.

skydan · **Reply #16 on:** May 23, 2009, 08:57:26 AM

I compared a Voyager Li(gh)te and an oldish Explorer and find that the Phillips tool also has this change albeit a larger bump.

Quote from: Gareth

Actually I think it's to provide a better lock-up when fully open. Lets you apply more pressure before you are in danger of it folding back at you as the hump hooks into a shape on the backspring. That's my theory anyway.

That would seem to be the case.

bren10man · **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2009, 04:29:32 AM

Speaking of Phillips screwdriver (the one that replaces corkscrew), when did Victorinox dump the can key in them? I owned a small Tinker that I bought and lost circa 1992 that had one. In 1996, while in Alaska, I bought a Craftsman (that does not have pliers but does have fish scalers...see 1985 catalog) that has a can key in it as well....

I have several recent puchased that do not have the can key in the Phillips...the earliest one was a Deluxe Tinker for my wife in 2002....no can key.

Neil · **Reply #18 on:** May 25, 2009, 09:36:52 PM

Quote from: bren10man on May 24, 2009, 04:29:32 AM

Speaking of Phillips screwdriver (the one that replaces corkscrew), when did Victorinox dump the can key in them? I owned a small Tinker that I bought and lost circa 1992 that had one. In 1996, while in Alaska, I bought a Craftsman (that does not have pliers but does have fish scalers...see 1985 catalog) that has a can key in it as well....

I have several recent puchased that do not have the can key in the Phillips...the earliest one was a Deluxe Tinker for my wife in 2002....no can key.

I believe the solid phillips driver was introduced in '92. Though of course they may have used up old parts after that point.

baumgrenze · **Reply #19 on:** September 29, 2014, 07:23:55 AM

I'm looking at two knives. Neither has the aforementioned groove. The older was a gift to me from my parents in the early 1950's. It has a bail. It came with a toothpick, a tweezers, on one side a long blade, a short blade, a fish scaler with hook remover, a file (both faces and edge), a saw (5 teeth/cm), a can opener with large slotted screwdriver, a bottle opener with small slotted screwdriver and on the other side a #2 Philips head screw driver, a finger nail file and cleaner, and an awl. Does anyone know the model name?

The second was made for Sandoz in Basel. It predates 1997 because that is when Sandoz and CIBA merged to become Novartis (and I retired with a brass ring.) The scale with the "cross and shield' also has a salmon and the other one reads SANDOZ in red against a silver background. It has fewer 'blades.' The large and small blades, a fish scaler/hook remover, a scissor, a can opener, a cap lifter (they are unchanged from 1950's), an awl, a corkscrew (with grooved flutes), a tweezers, and a toothpick. The scissor blades are quite different on the newer knife. The hole for the spring appears marginally larger. The screw that holds the blades together has a larger head. The cutting edge sections meet the handle with a curve, not a right angles. The moving blade is relieved about 5 mm from the stationary blade. It is also more squarely cut in the handle portion.

I think I've attached photos. The hole for the spring in the older knife is clearly smaller than that in the newer one. Using my number drills and a dial caliper I can just pass a #71 drill through the center of the spring in the hole. That hole is 0.0265" in diameter. I can just pass a #55 drill through the center of the spring in the newer. That hole is 0.0500" or about twice as big.

I am concerned I will not be able to replace the spring in the older knife. I will call the 800 number tomorrow morning.

If folks are interested, I can unclasp the blades and post photos of the two knives.

Thanks in advance for your interest.

baumgrenze

Quote from: cliosguy on May 23, 2009, 12:28:44 AM

Quote from: skydan on May 23, 2009, 12:21:13 AM
Oh flipping heck. You think you've examined every bit of your SAK and someone unearths something new. I will have to examine all my SAKs but I think you're right that the lip on the bottle opener is a new feature. '99 Ranger doesn't have it. Pre -2005 Voyager (and others) does have it. Wonder what it's purpose is?

Ok, here's something I've just discovered: there is a groove on the underside of the moving part of the scissors (the bit in contact with the spring). Those Swiss think of everything...

doesnt that always been there?(honestly i dont know )

PTRSAK · **Reply #20 on:** September 29, 2014, 09:49:33 AM

Gareth · **Reply #21 on:** September 29, 2014, 11:47:15 AM

Nothing wrong with a neco-thread.

Welcome to the forum baumgrenze, I'm sure one of our resident Victorinox experts will be along to answer your question soon enough.

enki_ck · **Reply #22 on:** September 29, 2014, 01:39:35 PM

This thread refers to the new 91mm Swiss Army Knives (or SAKs for short).

I'd say by the pictures that the broken spring one is from an older 84mm SAK. Those used a medium sized spring. You can make the large sized spring fit in it too with a bit of tweaking but the medium sized ones are still available, though not as easy.

For an exact identification of the knives, a picture with the tools opened would help as some of the tools changed throughout the years.

We'll probably have to search the catalogs as I don't see anything similar in the sakwiki.

Welcome to the forum.

baumgrenze · **Reply #23 on:** September 29, 2014, 09:38:18 PM

Thank you for the welcome.

I've uploaded photos of the knife with all the implements displayed viewed with both scales up. I also uploaded a closeup of the scissors taken from both faces. I also sent them to swissarmy.com in an inquiry after a replacement spring. I estimate that the spring hole is probably a 1 mm hole.

I put my dial calipers across the ends of the knife when closed an I measure ~3.74" or 95 mm. The Sandoz knife measures the same.

Perhaps someone will recognize the 1950's knife from an old catalog?

I will post any input I get from swissarmy.com.

Thanks again,

baumgrenze

J Mackrel Jones · **Reply #24 on:** September 29, 2014, 11:35:27 PM

See the Chronology in The Swiss Army Knife Owner's Manual (by "one of us") for most of the changes.
Here is one page:
1998 - SwissTool; (LED) SwissLite (Marlboro Illuminator) and Midnite Manager (V)
1998 - wire stripper notch added to cap lifter on 58mm (V)
1998 - nail file added to multi-purpose hook on some models (V)
1998 - Wenger patents scissor-style cigar cutter (Maurice Cachot, W)
1998 - PocketGrip (MiniGrip) pliers knife (European patent 2003 W)
1999 - colored translucent scales show name inside against tweezers
(Swiss patent granted 2004 V)
1999 - Signature II series with attached slide-out pen (V)
1999 - bit wrench and bit case (V)
1999 - GolfTool, AutoTool, and SportRatchet (“Lifestyle tools”) (V)
1999 - Travel Gear luggage line (V)
1999 - watch factory established in Bonfol (V)
2000 - Victorinox Foundation established - owns 90% of stock, Elsener family 10%
2000 - CyberTool and Altimeter, and a Lifestyle tool: BriefcaseTool (V)
2000 - Whistle Classic (V)
2000 - thin back-side nail file and cleaner “removed from catalogues” (V)
2000 - Spot Light LED (W)
2000 - Porsche design with ruthenium metal scales (W)
2000 - scissors jaws now have single-bevel rather than double bevel (W)
2000 ca - location of Pat on minidriver changed (V)
2001 - Voyager model with digital watch and short tweezers; pen, in new thicker scales, for some 91 mm models (V)
2001 - Clothing line in North America (V)
2002 - Victorinox is sole shareholder of Swiss Army Brands Inc.
2002 - Large white LED module (Swiss patent 2008) opposite (shorter) front-side phillips to make Voyager Lite and Huntsman Lite (V)
2002 - SwissFlame with piezo lighter (discontinued 2005)
2002 - Swiss Business tool (W)
2003 - bags and luggage (W)
2003 - 1st Annual Patagonia (human-powered) Race, sponsored by Wenger
2003 - SwissCard Lite (V)
2003 - Stay Glow (fluorescent) scales (V)
2003 - last year for tweezers (metal-tipped) in special-handle Swiss Champs; after this special-handles have no T & T (V)
2004 - blade shank reduced from 2.4 to 2.0 mm (V)
2004 - SwissMemory USB device (patent 2006 V)
2004 - magnifier changed from glass in gray frame to all plastic (V)
2005 circa - cap-lifter/large screwdriver back-square recessed for greater
closing resistance (V)
2005 - front tang stamp on large blade changed to VICTORINOX SWISS MADE STAINLESS, crossbow and cross no longer above

enki_ck · **Reply #25 on:** September 29, 2014, 11:39:23 PM

I'm a bit embarrassed now, don't know how I counted 5 layers by your description while forgetting about the scissors you were actually asking about and was looking for a scissorless model.

That's an original Champion, we used to refer to it as the Champion a.

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...i-index.php?page=Champion

The thing is though the catalogs we have show that the '50s model of it had exposed rivets which later got changed to hidden ones some time in the late '60s I think.

Here's a picture of it in a 50s catalog.

And the '60s catalog

The second one would be a Fisherman I think. (same '50s catalog)

More precisely the 235FaU if it has a bail or 235 Fa if it doesn't.

Take this with a grain of salt as I'm not that good with those oldies, and our resident 91mm historian is currently away writing a book about them.

If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me sooner or later.

baumgrenze · **Reply #26 on:** September 30, 2014, 08:05:38 AM

Thank you for your persistence.

I will forward the information to swissarmy.com

baumgrenze

baumgrenze · **Reply #27 on:** October 03, 2014, 07:21:37 AM

I'm struggling to get Swiss Army to understand that my broken scissor spring is not the 2014 large spring.

I searched my hard drive and found a letter from 1 December 1989 that I wrote to S. A. Brands,
37 Canal Street, Shelton, CT 06484. On 10 January 1990 they agreed tp send my knife to Switzerland as a 'knife of sentimental value' to repair a broken spring on the file. It was shipped there in mid-February on the next shipment and returned sometime that summer. I have no record of what the repairs cost.

Perhaps it was during that repair that the riveted leaves were replaced with newer ones.

During this correspondence, my notes say that SA called the knife a "Craftsman Model." Does this make sense to the experts?

thanks,

baumgrenze

PTRSAK · **Reply #28 on:** October 03, 2014, 11:38:42 AM

Looking at the '60's catalog picture it appears that the scissor spring would have originally been the black single leaf spring.
Perhaps it had already been replaced once in the past with the re-curve spring.

I have replaced a couple of scissor springs where the hole has been very much smaller than the loop on the new replacement spring. A little Dremel and pliers work can reduce the size of the end loop on the spring to fit the smaller hole.