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Rusting leathermans

gb Offline Raukodur

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Rusting leathermans
on: April 14, 2007, 08:05:13 PM
When I was considering what tool to buy from what company, one thing which I wish there was more information on was the rusting issue people have with their leathermans. The reason why in the end I disregarded all such claims was because althought the rusting did occur, I didnt know the circumstances that surrounded it, nor what proportion of leatherman's rusted, it could just be that those that do have their owners complaining and those that dont have silent owners, so giving a skewed image.

Therefore, in this thread, if you own a leatherman of any kind, or did in ther past, could you reply with a concise post where you include the following information (and anything else pertinent I might have forgotten to mention):

1) type of leatherman tool you owned (and whether it was black oxide coated or not)
2) whether it rusted or not
3) if it did, how long since you bought it it took to rust
4) what kind of conditions you exposed it to (whether it rusted or not)
5) how the rusting affected the tool

Maybe this info, if put together like this, will help buyers of leatherman tools.
it can also help us learn a thing or two. For example, maybe we will find that only a specific tool(s) rust, but others dont. Maybe we will find that claims of rusting come from people who subject their tools to terrible things. Etc.

(EDIT: NB: it may be best if you dont reply to this thread if your LM is new, and not really used yet, unless of course it is lready rusting, in which thats quite a serious issue and people would like to know about it. This is the reason why I won't reply to this thread myself even though I own a LM, havent used it yet for anything, no big deal if it hasnt rusted.)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 08:07:11 PM by Raukodur »


england Offline Dunc

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #1 on: April 14, 2007, 08:49:07 PM
My Charge had rust appear inside the handles near the little post that guides the pliers when you shut the tool . It wasnt taken near the sea at the time and wasnt exposed to anything harsh , wish I had taken pics at the time .
  These two links from two reviews may help .....

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Knives/Multi-tools/Leatherman%20Charge%20Ti/Cora%20Shea/Long%20Term%20Report/

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Knives/Multi-tools/Leatherman%20Charge%20Ti/Coy%20Starnes/Long%20Term%20Report/


Cheers

Dunc


Offline sakjohn

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #2 on: April 14, 2007, 10:08:24 PM
I have a wave and an original pst. I didn't use the pst for a year or so. Then after about 6 months of use, a few rust spots appeared on the blade. It wasn't used near water and wasn't put away wet. I switched to a swisstool black oxide and didn't have any problems with rust. I decided to give the leatherman tool another chance and got a wave. The same thing happened, after about 6 months, a few rust spot developed on the main and serrated blades. Again no water never put away wet. I've had several swiss army knives and have never had any problems with rust...Only with leatherman. I wont be buying a third.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #3 on: April 14, 2007, 10:14:15 PM
The rusting issues I have encountered (and both of them are fairly minor) are both with used tools that I had gotten.  They were both in good shape other than the rust spots.

Tool 1:

Leatherman Juice S2
Spot rusting on phillips
I don't know how long it took- I got this one second hand, and I didn't notice the rust until looking at these pics in the Reviews section of the main site
No conditions other than the usual harsh sea air found here in Nova Scotia
Hasn't affected it so far

Tool 2:

Leatherman SuperTool 200 Black Oxide
Rusted on both sides of each implement in each handle
Again, it was a used tool but this one was rusted like this when I opened the package it was sent to me in.  This one appears to be more of less unused otherwise
It was rusted when I got it
I hadn't had a chance to expose it to anything
The rust was cleaned off (as much as possible, the tool was oiled and it hasn't been an issue since.  Of course, I rarely carry or use this one, but the rusting doesn't seem to have been structural or damaging.

Def
Juice11.JPG
* Juice11.JPG (Filesize: 24.19 KB)
BOST200.JPG
* BOST200.JPG (Filesize: 121.78 KB)
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


Offline knife-man

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 10:29:51 PM
Ive had a leatherman wave for just over a year now and the only time it rusted was when I dropped it (still in the leather sheath) in the toilet  :oops: and had no choice but to keep wearing it till I got home .. a quick scrub cleaned it all off though.
[


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 10:41:11 PM
Man that is funny!  I wonder if Leatherman has any plans to field test them that way in the future to combat such occurances!

Def
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Offline znapschatz

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 10:47:02 PM
My experience has been with  a PST, Super Tool ( 10 years each), Micra (8 yrs), ST 200, Juice CS4 (3 yrs each), and a few recent acquisitions.  Some have been worked more than others, but that has less effect on rusting than conditions of carry, I believe.   All have been EDC a fair amount, sometimes but not often in wet conditions or corrosive stuff.  When that happens, I wash and dry them off and apply some WD 40 when I can.  Usually, the climate in my part of the world is moderate, although summers can be humid.  So far,  none of my Leathermen have shown any signs of rust.  It remains to be seen how well the newer ones fare.  


Offline znapschatz

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #7 on: April 14, 2007, 10:51:47 PM
Forgot to mention: all but Juice scales plain stainless steel finish.


Offline damota

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #8 on: April 15, 2007, 12:46:07 AM
Stainless steel does stain less if you leave it in the pickle jar but it will rust if not looked after. The way to stop it rusting is to keep the air away from the steel by it having a coating. Coatings such as Teflon and such work well but can scratch in use. On a plain stainless finish a coating of oil works the best. Get a routine of cleaning, turn the tap full on and rinse the tool in the jet of water making sure the joints get a good rinse out. Dry thoroughly nothing fancy I just use kitchen roll, then oil the joints, axles and then wipe all over the whole tool. Do it once a week or so and emediatly you get the tool home after a days use were you think it may rust.
I find webbing pouches useful because every once in a while I can spread some oil round the inside of the pouch. They seem to repel water better than leather pouch's anyway. I wonder how many would clean a leather pouch as you would a pair of boots?

Dave


us Offline Spoonrobot

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #9 on: April 15, 2007, 06:12:22 AM
1) type of leatherman tool you owned (and whether it was black oxide coated or not)
2) whether it rusted or not
3) if it did, how long since you bought it it took to rust
4) what kind of conditions you exposed it to (whether it rusted or not)
5) how the rusting affected the tool

1) Old Style Wave.
2) Yes, minor.
3) Several months.
4) I used this tool when I was working as a dishwasher. I was exposed to every type of liquid imagineable since it was my primary knife. This included; butter, oil, lemon juice, cream, dish soap, grease, etc. The only upkeep I did was run it through the machine at the end of every shift.
5) Mainly comsmetic. There was rusting around the pivot areas and on the main blade.

1) Black Oxide Charge.
2) Not yet.
3) N/A
4) Mainly pocket carry during the winter time. Not a lot of contact with dirt or liquid. I carried it a lot more than I used it.
5) N/A

1) Black Oxide Blast.
2) Not yet.
3) N/A
4) This tool was my EDC when I was doing construction last summer, it was exposed mostly to dust and dirt with little contact with liquid.
5) N/A

1) New Style Wave.
2) Yes, there is minor surface rust on the handles.
3) More than 1 year.
4) This tool is mainly carried in my EDC bag and is seldom used but I did have to use it one night to cut a lot of butcher's twine off the steaks we were serving at work. I ran it through the dishmachine at the end of the night, oiled the pivots and put it back in my bag, the rust is probably from this one use since I can't really think of another time I really used it.
5) None, rust is purely cosmetic.

So far so good, I work around a liquids a lot and really never see that must rust. I must have a good sweat pH balance.


Offline Garnett

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #10 on: April 15, 2007, 11:11:17 AM
1) type of leatherman tool you owned (and whether it was black oxide coated or not)
2) whether it rusted or not
3) if it did, how long since you bought it it took to rust
4) what kind of conditions you exposed it to (whether it rusted or not)
5) how the rusting affected the tool

1) Leatherman Charge XTi (Not black oxide coated)
2) It did rust: spots appeared on the 154cm blade (obviously a different steel to the rest of the tool, but also the most used tool in the time I owned it) and also around the pivots.
3) Approx 2 weeks
4) The rust did not affect the tool's performance, only my estimation of the tool.

Possible mitigating circumstances: I bought the Charge just before going on a coastal holiday, and also used it to prepare lunches often slicing fruit and veg before often cleaning it with nothing more than water and kitchen towel. Even still I was disappointed to see rust this quickly. I was fairly confident I could clean up the blade when I got home, but the spots in the workings of the tool looked like they'd be tricky to treat.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #11 on: April 15, 2007, 01:09:18 PM
1) type of leatherman tool you owned (and whether it was black oxide coated or not)
2) whether it rusted or not
3) if it did, how long since you bought it it took to rust
4) what kind of conditions you exposed it to (whether it rusted or not)
5) how the rusting affected the tool

1) I own quite a number of Leatherman tools, some of them have black oxide finish.
2) The only one to ever show signs of rust was a SideClip with bead blast finish. (I've since come to understand that a bead blast finish is more susceptible to corrosion than a polished finish.)
3) Less than one year for the SideClip. However, I've owned an original PST for over twenty years, with nary a speck of rust.
4) Here is where we should perhaps discount my results. I rotate many tools through my EDC. The Leathermans in my possession spend 11 months out of every 12 sitting on  shelf. Not the typical conditions of usage I suspect.
5) The SideClip developed a speckling of rust spots all over the head and handles. The spots were more like tiny brown stains really. (See Def's picture above of the Juice phillips screwdriver.) Absolutely no effect to the tool's strength, but bothersome cosmetically.
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #12 on: April 15, 2007, 01:41:56 PM
Once again I'd like to point out that where I live is one of the most corrosive environments in the world.  Manufacturers used to test corrosion resistance in cars in this area (and New England) but gave up most of it due to the high failure rate.  Any metal items here are susceptible to rust and other corrosion due to the acidic soil and high salt content of the air- remember, my province is sticking out in to the Atlantic Ocean- I have to drive for about 300 kms (200 miles) just to reach the mainland, which in my area, is still farther out in the ocean than any point on the US Eastern Seaboard.  Add to that the continuously changing temperature and high humidity, and you have a place where it's not good to be metal.

Here, cars have to be "safety checked" each year to make certain that there is little to no corrosion damage because a hole smaller than a dime in the car's body will be big enough to put your hand through in the next year.

As a result, I have been keeping a fairly close eye on all my tools, especially the Leathermans, which have a reputation for rust.  I can honestly say, without a doubt, that the amount of corrosion and rust I have seen, is negligeable.  I have seen some surface rust, but no pitting, and no damage resulting from rust or any other corrosion, and I am not overly meticulous about keeping tools clean and oiled, and because I am at heart an evil man, I also store them in their leather sheaths.  All in all, I think that the rust issue has been greatly overblown.

I traded SuperTools with a guy at work a few months ago because his was broken, and so I gave him mine and I sent his in for repair for him.  His tool, aslo kept in a leather sheath and carried every day by a guy who actually works (he is a printer) and used for everything from on the spot repairs to industrial machines to fishing and hunting, had absolutely no rust on it either. 

I personally have yet to see a Leatehrman that is rusted so bad that it wouldn't work.  A quick look at SpoonRobot's post in the General forum about that dirty old PST should prove that while they may get ugly, they are still solid.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


gb Offline Raukodur

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #13 on: April 15, 2007, 02:12:00 PM
Quote
because I am at heart an evil man

LOL  :grin:

Well, not from what I've seen on these forums, maybe you have some hobbies we don't know about...  :P


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #14 on: April 15, 2007, 04:50:46 PM
 >:D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 04:07:16 AM
Anybody else own a Leatherman? Did it rust, or did it not?
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


us Offline parnass

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 05:24:07 AM
I am the original owner of a PST, SuperTool, and an early Micra.  I also have a 1999-vintage Crunch. I lubricate them periodically and none of them have rusted.   My few month old Fuse has not rusted, but it has been used only indoors.

However, I bought a batch of used, plastic covered Micras which were newer vintage than my Micra and about a third of them arrived with rust inside.  I knew they were more recent vintage because they said "Tool" on the scissors instead of "USA."
Retired engineer, author.

A man with one multitool always knows exactly which to use. A man with many multitools is never quite sure. - parnass


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #17 on: April 19, 2007, 01:27:42 AM
I am the original owner of a PST, SuperTool, and an early Micra.  I also have a 1999-vintage Crunch. I lubricate them periodically and none of them have rusted.   My few month old Fuse has not rusted, but it has been used only indoors.

However, I bought a batch of used, plastic covered Micras which were newer vintage than my Micra and about a third of them arrived with rust inside.  I knew they were more recent vintage because they said "Tool" on the scissors instead of "USA."

Oops, I forgot about the red plastic-covered Micra I have. It has all kinds of dirt and crud and rust spots showing in-between the plastic and the "stainless" steel handles. 

I don't think the translucent plastic-covered Micra design was a very good idea.
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


gb Offline Raukodur

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #18 on: May 01, 2007, 01:45:57 PM
Ok, well I think this thread was successful in giving us a better idea of what exactly people are talking about when they mention 'rust' and 'leathermans'

From what I have gained from this thread it seems that leathermans are prone to rust more than e.g. victorinox tools. However, in all cases the rust seems to be on the surface of the tool easily cleaned, and doesn't affect the tool in any way.

This is not to say that the owner isnt shocked by the very fact rust has appeared on their beloved tool, I suppose the biggest concern is about aesthetics, a tool with rust on doesn't look nice, regardless of how superficial it is.

I think this is an issue leatherman have to try and solve, I am sure there are prospective buyers who in the end go for tools from other companies because they do not even want rust specks on the tool they buy.

However, it is reassuring to learn that even if the tool does rust, it will not eat away at the tool and reduce it to powder.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #19 on: May 01, 2007, 01:54:07 PM
I think you have hit the nail on the head right there.  Unfortunately the "rusty Leatherman" reputation is out there, and it's up to us, the finest group of multitool enthusiasts to be found anywhere, to dispel these silly rumors.

Of course, look in any tool box, or on any hardworking professional's tools and you will see rust as well.  Unless they are brand new tools, or composite materials, most of our tools are going to exhibit rust and corrosion in some manner or another.  It's the nature of tools, and we don't mind it on an old wrench or hacksaw frame, but it supposedly makes all the difference in the world on a Leatherman.

Seems kind of silly to me.

Def
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Offline damota

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #20 on: May 01, 2007, 03:14:43 PM
As I understand it the most effective way to stop a metal rusting is to add chrome (reduces edge keeping and makes the steel weaker) to its make up. The better steels have more carbon (makes the steel harder and hold an edge better but is more prone to rust) added.
As a user of tools the lack of rust would make me question the quality of the steel being used for use on a tool. Rust is formed in the area that comes in contact with the air so is always just surface unless it is allowed to penetrate deeper through the owner not doing any maintenance. If you do no maintenance you get what you deserve, it is up to the owner. Just do as the manufacturer asks on the leaflet that comes with whatever tool you buy.
IMO shiny polished tools can be dangerously slippy in the work environment were hands can get oil, grease or even water on them so I am not too fond of those either. Especially when people round me are using them.

Dave


Offline Zio Arcano

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #21 on: May 01, 2007, 08:30:49 PM
As I understand it the most effective way to stop a metal rusting is to add chrome (reduces edge keeping and makes the steel weaker) to its make up. The better steels have more carbon (makes the steel harder and hold an edge better but is more prone to rust) added.

As far as I know, adding chrome (molybdenum maybe? I'm not an expert but I remember this particular metal...) doesn't make the blade "weaker" but more prone to bend if too much force is applied. Which, in my opinion, is better for a multitool. A harder steel may rust a little but it cuts better and keeps an edge better; however, when it reaches the breaking point it'll just break without any warning, leaving you with a useless tool in your hand. A duller blade will withstand harder pressure and before the breaking point it will bend a little. This way you will know when to stop. And since I carry a multitool to avoid having a whole toolbox with me, I like to know how far I can push the limit. This is my experience with Victorinox knives: the steel doesn't rust, no spots, no superficial damage. And its elasticity is a plus, to me. Of course, if having a razor-sharp blade is essential, a harder steel is the one to choose. From my point of view, bigger blades should be made of a harder high-carbon steel. Their weight and dimensions would prevent them from breaking. Smaller blades (as the ones on multitools) should be made of a much softer metal. But it's just my opinion, of course. :)

If you do no maintenance you get what you deserve, it is up to the owner.

That's true. It doesn't matter if it's Leatherman, Gerber, Victorinox or SOG: no maintenance means bad news to come.

IMO shiny polished tools can be dangerously slippy in the work environment were hands can get oil, grease or even water on them so I am not too fond of those either. Especially when people round me are using them.

It may be true, but a shiny polished tool gives rust no places to "hide". Instead, a raw surface gives a good grip to dirt and rust to hold to.

P.S. I hope what I said makes sense, I have a terrible headache and my already-not-so-good english gets worse in these conditions.  ;)


Offline damota

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #22 on: May 01, 2007, 10:00:20 PM
What I meant by weaker is that it will loose its edge quicker than a higher carbon steel. I should have added that it also makes it easier to sharpen and get a serviceable edge back on it. As I carry a Spyderco with a S30V blade for any cutting I need to do I only use a multi's blade for jobs I am unwilling to risk my Spyderco on and have found that to work for me.

Dave


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #23 on: May 08, 2007, 11:20:51 AM
I had a leather man super tool 7 or 8 years ago (i,m now thirty so the memory plays tricks on me :grin:) and that rusted very quickly, never serious rust just, surface corotion. although it was pitted on the tangs and by the pivots, no matter how well i cleaned them :cry:

I do look after my tools but it was kinda of excessive the amount of care i was giving the lm supertool, especially as it was suposed to be stainless!

i sold it in the end and went back to saks and then got a swisstool x which i,ve got to say is a vast improvement in every area (I,ll run for cover now before i start a flame war :oops:)
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gb Offline Raukodur

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #24 on: May 08, 2007, 03:36:12 PM
Hehe, no need for a flame war, as you yourself have admitted (or thats what I have understood from your post anyway, forgive me if Im wrong), you have not sampled a leatherman since your supertool, so you have not been able to compare your swisstool to any of the newer leatherman offerings.

That's not to say you might not find it superior in every way, but right now I think most will take that as an uninformed opinion  ;)

I think its healthy for people to be able to express their opinions openly in a forum, or any kind of dialogue without worry of attack, of course as long as they do so in a sensitive way, i.e. not trying to hurt people's feelings deliberately.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #25 on: May 09, 2007, 05:25:22 AM
...Therefore, in this thread, if you own a leatherman of any kind, or did in ther past, could you reply with a concise post where you include the following information (and anything else pertinent I might have forgotten to mention):

1) type of leatherman tool you owned (and whether it was black oxide coated or not)
2) whether it rusted or not
3) if it did, how long since you bought it it took to rust
4) what kind of conditions you exposed it to (whether it rusted or not)
5) how the rusting affected the tool

So micky d, going back to the very first post in this thread, what can you tell us about your Leatherman?
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


us Offline inkster

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #26 on: May 09, 2007, 06:42:46 AM
I have rusty bloomers  :cry:


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #27 on: May 09, 2007, 06:24:14 PM
...Therefore, in this thread, if you own a leatherman of any kind, or did in ther past, could you reply with a concise post where you include the following information (and anything else pertinent I might have forgotten to mention):

1) type of leatherman tool you owned (and whether it was black oxide coated or not)
2) whether it rusted or not
3) if it did, how long since you bought it it took to rust
4) what kind of conditions you exposed it to (whether it rusted or not)
5) how the rusting affected the tool

So micky d, going back to the very first post in this thread, what can you tell us about your Leatherman?
Ok i used to carry my lm supertool paired with either a spyderco or cold steel 3inch folder, so i always had a good balance of tools to get me through the day.

at the time i was heavily in motorbikes so the leatherman got a fair bit of use in all weather, pulling fuses, bodging electrics :grin:(good old days when all my bikes were crap!)

Having said that i always dryed/cleaned and oiled when neccasary, but the uk,s a damp old place so i guess i can be forgiven for a few odd pitts here and there.

the rusting never inhibbited the working of the tool, what finally got to me in the end was the stupid locking system of pulling one blade out to put the other one away, try doing that in sub zero tempretures in the dark with painfully numb fingers  :angry:

so in the end i got rid of it and went back to carrying normal pliers and a sak, which served me much better in the end, then a mate of mine showed me his swisstool, (after a long time being put of multi tools by my Leatherman Supertool) and i was sold! :grin:

 and to this day i still think its the finest all round multi tool for me.

but each to there own and there are a lot of multi tools leatheman included that i,d hapilly own these days  :grin:
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 09:09:32 PM by micky d »
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us Offline J-sews

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #28 on: May 10, 2007, 01:32:58 AM
Well said!  :cheers:
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


us Offline NeitherExtreme

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Re: Rusting leathermans
Reply #29 on: May 10, 2007, 04:47:18 AM
Hi all!
I've enjoyed reading this forum for a while and appreciated all the information I've gathered. I figured this was a good place to start by "giving back" some info.

1) type of leatherman tool you owned (and whether it was black oxide coated or not)
2) whether it rusted or not
3) if it did, how long since you bought it it took to rust
4) what kind of conditions you exposed it to (whether it rusted or not)
5) how the rusting affected the tool

1) Original PST
2) Some rust spots, nothing that affected the tool much: easily cleanable
3) Well... see 4
4) My sisters originally found this thing in the snow about 10 years ago while they were sledding. Then I ended up with it (my first multitool came free   :grin: ) No idea how long it had been there. Since then its been indoors, but I didn't take care of it (oil, cleaning, etc.) till a few years ago.
5) Not at all really.

1) Charge Ti
2) A few drity/rusty spots here and there where my normal cleaning doesn't clean.
3) I've been out of the country for 6 months, and it sat in a damp basement. I think the little bit of rust I saw appeared during that time.
4) A lot of pocket time, some sitting, some basement time.
5) None

1) Kick
2) A few tiny surface spots that wiped off easily.
3) After being carried/used for a few months.
4) A lot of pocket time and abuse at work. I opened a can of pinaples and ate it with the screwdriver. :D
5) None

1) Juice KF4 #1
2) Same as Kick, I think only on the philips.
3) After being carried/used for a few months.
4) I have been in Central Asia for the past 6 months, and this was the tool I carried all the time. Things over there don't work as well as they do here, so this sucker got used for just about everything without a whole lot of upkeep.
5) None

1) Juice KF4 #2
2) None
3) na
4) It's sat in a box since I got it.
5) na

1) Micra
2) Some rust on inside parts
3) Came that way, I bought it very used on ebay
4) I have no idea, but it sure looks like it went through a lot with no upkeep.
5) Not much

1) Knife: e304x
2) No
3) na
4) Indoors, well oiled. Used to open letters.  :grin:
5) na

That's it! Hope it was helpful.

Edited to say: none were black-coated.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 04:50:45 AM by NeitherExtreme »


 

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