Juice= junk?

[Singh]

I’ve been needing an MT for pocket carry since a tool on the belt would get too much attention at work. My Swisstool is a bit large for pocket carry, so I’ve been thinking about getting a juice (S2 or CS4).. and then I read the reviews and comments: dull awl, sticky pliers, bad saw, can opener that won’t work, problems with fit and quality. And all that at around $50!  Cost benefit analysis= not worth it.


But I’d like to be convinced otherwise.

[Mr. Whippy]

I disagree with that assessment of the Juice.

I have a CS4 (and Kf4) that I like very much.  I added a pocket clip and really like for EDC, especially when the setting would look a little askance at a full sized tool.  Pliers are excellent.  Knife is excellent.  Saw is very good.  Drivers are very good (but short).  My wife carries an S2 on the farm and uses constantly.  She's stopped carrying a SAK, something she's done for over a decade.  The pliers on the S2 combined with the excellent knife and adequate scissors are a total win.

Currently, I've been EDCing my Juice CS4 with a large SAK (mostly to have the pliers along)

[wild_weasel]

Hello,

I carried a Juice S2 in IRAQ before switching over to a basic Skeletool.  I lost my first Skeletool while reworking some equipment on Stryker APC’s and used the Juice S2 as backup until the replacement Skeletool arrived.  While I have not used the can opener the scissors work great on the Juice S2.  Back in the States I’d probably switch back to the Juice S2 or my Victorinox Compact, as they have a more benign look than the Skeletool.

Cheers,
W-W

[GraysonK]

I disagree as well.  The KF4, IMO, is the best pocket sized, pliers based MT that I own.  The saw is fantastic, cuts very, very well and is sturdy.  The drivers, while short, are awesome.  The awl, well the awl is not a Vic Farmer awl, but one of the flat heads can be filed down as an awl if you really want.  The only thing "lacking" on the KF4 is scissors, okay and a pocket clip, but supplement with a Vic Climber or something like that and you've got a great, well rounded EDC for work, home or anywhere else.  I also have a Juice SC2 and can say with certainty that, for me, the scissors on that thing are just as good if not a little bit better than the scissors on something like a Vic climber. 
But, everyone has their own opinions.  If I were you I'd get an S2 and give it a try...it doesn't have the saw, but it should give you an idea of whether or not you'll like the tool.  If you like it, I highly recommend the KF4.  Excellent little tool.
Good luck on the search!

[Mr. Whippy]

I disagree as well.  The KF4, IMO, is the best pocket sized, pliers based MT that I own.  The saw is fantastic, cuts very, very well and is sturdy.  The drivers, while short, are awesome.  The awl, well the awl is not a Vic Farmer awl, but one of the flat heads can be filed down as an awl if you really want.  The only thing "lacking" on the KF4 is scissors, okay and a pocket clip, but supplement with a Vic Climber or something like that and you've got a great, well rounded EDC for work, home or anywhere else.  I also have a Juice SC2 and can say with certainty that, for me, the scissors on that thing are just as good if not a little bit better than the scissors on something like a Vic climber. 
But, everyone has their own opinions.  If I were you I'd get an S2 and give it a try...it doesn't have the saw, but it should give you an idea of whether or not you'll like the tool.  If you like it, I highly recommend the KF4.  Excellent little tool.
Good luck on the search!

I'm gonna have to get another KF4 for a daily user.  I prefer it to the CS4 too, but my KF4 needs the pliers tightened up AND it has the variant 2 spring setup on both handles.  I kinda felt like I had to retire it. 

Been watching but no good prices recently...

[GraysonK]

Forgive me, but what's the variant 2 spring set up? 

[David]

I also disagree. While I`m not the biggest Juice fan because I normally need a bigger MT. For its size its a good tool. I have a S2 and a KF4. Yes the awl could be pointer but that is easily fixed. Have not used the saw or can opener so can not comment on them. My guess is that the reviews you referred to were made by nit picking perfectionist with nothing better to do. After all it is just a tool not a Rolex.

[David]

gray read this.


http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,14501.0.html

[Sean]

Shamus,

I have both the S2 and the XE6.  I did bend the can opener on a tin of Cranberries trying to open them a
couple of Christmas's ago.  The problem was it then stuck out of the handle and I ended up
extracting it from the tool which did make the scissors more accessible.  It is a bit poor design in my
opinion the can opener.
 
The juice series tool are a bit of a different "design and assembly" from a more "standard" plier in that they
have crammed a lot of tools into a small package and riveted them all together.  Some of the guys on
this forum are really talented with modifications and disassembly and whatnot but I can't remember off
hand too many people taking one of these apart and changing around tools.  Having them all wedged
into such a small space when you look at the ends of the tool when closed it's all jammed
in and a bit off kilter.  This might not be the same with everyone's but it is with mine.

This all said, I carry it around quite often.  I'm all for small tools that I forget I'm carrying.
The sheaths make this possible as well, great design.  Aside from the can opener issue I don't use an awl
very much. The pliers I've found to work quite well not any more sticky than others.  My Kick and Blast
are harder to open.

My advice is check one out before you buy if you can.  Good advice for any brand.  You can have issues
with any model and from good manufactures.  The one thing to note as I'm sure your aware of, Leatherman's
warranty is tops.  I can only think of one other company (non-tool) that has taken care of my issues like
they have.  If they cannot repair it they will replace it.

Sean

[Singh]

My guess is that the reviews you referred to were made by nit picking perfectionist with nothing better to do.

HA! Yes, I know that the internet is famous for exaggeration. One person’s “Excalibur” is another person hunk of junk.  Between the yays and the nays, the truth lies in the middle.   

[ducktapehero]

I have to admit I'm one of those people who was underwhelmed by it. I bought 2 over the years and both were extremely tight. I had to bend the handles a little to be able to open the drivers and the can opener is useless. Admittedly mine were early versions and they may have improved but the can opener still looks useless. Of course that isn't an issue on the KF4 but that's the one they've discontinued.

Now obviously they've improved it enough for people to like it or they would be retired by now. They are wonderfully sized and if they improved the can opener and/or reissued the KF4 I might try one again.

[Crouton]

The thing that seperates the Juice line from the rest is the medium duty, fully foldable plier head.  The way I see it the Juice lines goes head to head with the swiss army knife crowd and is catered to those that want a more usable plier head that folds into the tool but has the form factor of a SAK.

I have owned 2 used Juices, one S2, and one CS4.  Both of these had minor annoyances, both had one bent handle so from a side profile the tool wasn't completely flat.  Both, when viewed from the end just didn't have the neat, tidy look of a SAK.  The CS4 has a blade (I forget which) that has to be assisted to slide back into it's slot instead of snapping effortlessly in place.

The Juice line, although not perfect is a great candidate for pocket carry.  It's well made and useful but not without it's problems.

I suggest you also consider, a Sideclip(in pocket), a Skeletool(in pocket), and a SAK.  I was in the market for a pocket carry tool and eventually decided on the Skeletool as it pocket carries fine,  clips to the belt if you want to carry it out of pocket, and the blade, pliers and drivers are all quite usable.  As for an awl, a small flathead, scissors etc.  those weren't things I needed for pocket carry.

[scrappy]

The thing that seperates the Juice line from the rest is the medium duty, fully foldable plier head.  The way I see it the Juice lines goes head to head with the swiss army knife crowd and is catered to those that want a more usable plier head that folds into the tool but has the form factor of a SAK.

I have owned 2 used Juices, one S2, and one CS4.  Both of these had minor annoyances, both had one bent handle so from a side profile the tool wasn't completely flat.  Both, when viewed from the end just didn't have the neat, tidy look of a SAK.  The CS4 has a blade (I forget which) that has to be assisted to slide back into it's slot instead of snapping effortlessly in place.

The Juice line, although not perfect is a great candidate for pocket carry.  It's well made and useful but not without it's problems.

I suggest you also consider, a Sideclip(in pocket), a Skeletool(in pocket), and a SAK.  I was in the market for a pocket carry tool and eventually decided on the Skeletool as it pocket carries fine,  clips to the belt if you want to carry it out of pocket, and the blade, pliers and drivers are all quite usable.  As for an awl, a small flathead, scissors etc.  those weren't things I needed for pocket carry.

very well said. I think the saw is amazing. only the vic saw is better.

[Sean]

Funny thing with me and that Skeletool CX but I personally hated it.  Could only grab it one way
comfortably when using the pliers and I bought it so as to be able to carry a clipped tool in pocket
and that damn sharp blade tang that protrudes when all snuggled away always caught me when I
had hands in pocket always annoyed me.  If I happened upon another one for a ridiculous price I would
make it a "giveaway" on this forum. 

[max6166]

Most popular MTs have had a number of complaints and opinions posted - some common and some extremely rare.

I don't think many people think of the Juice as junk though. I think that is an unwarranted criticism that carries a lot of implications.

I am one of the few who think it is a bit overpriced, but that is not the same thing.

I definitely would recommend trying to get your hands on a Juice before buying one though.

The pliers are much lighter than a full-size MT, and it is hard to really get a sense of what they are capable of without handling them.

[GraysonK]

gray read this.


http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,14501.0.html

Thanks David

[DaveK]

I am one of the few who think it is a bit overpriced, but that is not the same thing.

I agree with this. They certainly aren't junk!

[gafftapegreenia]

I think I'd be alot happier if each product in the Juice line was about $10 less.

[DaveK]

It's hard to justify the asking price of the Juice IMO, particularly as much of the cost seems to be related to the coloured finish, which marks up and scratches too easily.

They are proper tools though, and I do carry one from time to time. They have that "sheeple friendliness" that you get with a SAK, but with some excellent pliers thrown in. They also have the benefit of being legal EDC here in the UK.

[Benner]

Personally I see the cost related to the sheer number of parts involved rather than the colour. 

[ducktapehero]

I have to admit this thread is making me look at the Juice line again. I'm liking the CS4 and I'd still like a KF4. I may have to think about doing some horse trading. 

[LatinoHeat]

My issues with the Juice series is I hate the Can/bottle opener and scissors.  The awl is rounded off and dull, but nothing that a little sharpening can't fix.  I would say the same for the can/bottle opener, and I DID sharpen it, but it bent while opening a bottle cap of all things.  My issues with the scissors is that they tend to flex apart, cause some things you plan on cutting to bend and stay in one piece.  The drivers in the handle are a bit tight, bit again, I can deal with that.  Better tight then loose, you know?  I have an XE6, but it is in a drawer.  If there was a current model without a bottle/can opener and scissors (BRING BACK THE KF4!!!), I would be all over it.  Then again, they are a little bit over priced.  Not a fan over all I guess.

[ducktapehero]

You could buy a CS4 and rip the can opener and scissors off. I'm considering it. 

[Blackbeard]

The juice is as close to junk as you can get. Its as if the designers at leatherman said "Lets make a multi with implements that dont snap back into place correctly, make one side bigger than the other and throw in poor stock metal and ultra thin implements that dont lock and can be easily bent, and see if we can beat Victorinox"

Yes, those designers are wordy and talk in run on sentences.

I have the XE6 and have only used it to open a bottle of wine or 2 and it can barely do that without wanting to implode.

Give me a wave anyday over this mess or any vic for that matter.

[Benner]

So are you basing them all on one example?

[AHB]

Well, my Juice S2 haven't let me down yet..   

[Blackbeard]

So are you basing them all on one example?

Well, I wouldn't buy another due to this models deficiencies, imo its not up to par with the other leatherman products.

[Benner]

It just seems a shame to write off a whole line of tools, call them junk after 1 bad experience.  I think they are good myself, they just don't fit my EDC.

[Blackbeard]

To be fair, I said as close to junk as you can get  again, I'm only refering to the xe-6, but it does share the same implements with lesser layer models.

The drivers are decent, albeit quite sharp and verging on slicing your fingers while opening. The pliers are decent, but rather thin, but no more so than the skeletool. Aside from that its an underwhelming multi.

[DaveK]

You clearly have a very personal definition of "junk" then Blackbeard. Each to their own I suppose, but I doubt you'll find many people agreeing with you tbh.

Its as if the designers at leatherman said "Lets make a multi with implements that dont snap back into place correctly, make one side bigger than the other and throw in poor stock metal and ultra thin implements that dont lock and can be easily bent, and see if we can beat Victorinox"