Questions for moderators

[CarbideCruzer]

While I have a basic understanding of what is and generally what topics and vernacular to avoid, I do have a genuine question without a agenda behind this. 

This question being, how is freedom of speech defined here?  As to me and I suspect many others, as long as you aren't inciting violence, slandering, defaming, harassing/spamming or committing any  criminal actions, said speech is acceptable on that basis.  Of course this is a malleable subject and I much prefer civility and respect first and foremost.  Unfortunately, there are those that value censorship more than they value genuine discussions I've noticed.  Hardly anything new though.

I've been  a part of several forums and have left a vast majority of them.  While I personally do believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion, this site does seem to be the exception to the rule from what I've seen with some of the usual antics of most forums in general. That in my opinion is a positive aspect.   My mentality is to each their own as I am deeply in favor of individuality rather than a group mentality. 

Thank you to the moderators and others for their input.

[Mechanickal]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
However, religion and politics are not to be debated on a tool forum, simply because the cultural differences between people would cause those discussions to spiral out of control.

Sometimes we bump into each other and some sort of argument starts, but that is rather rare and usually ends by forgetting about it and just move on as friends

[Mechanickal]

Oh and I'm not a moderator but got in here anyway

Freedom of speech! 

[Syncop8r]

There is no point having topics like politics allowed as by it's very nature people will disagree and things may get heated. Things don't get as heated when we disagree about multitools (usually) and at least that's on-topic.
I would probably disagree with many here about politics, religion and perhaps a couple of other subjects and it's great to leave those things at the door and concentrate on the things we have in common rather than the things we don't.

I guess as Def owns this site he can have whatever rules he wants and is not bound by such concepts as freedom of speech. I think it works.

[enki_ck]

The guys basically said it all, no politics, no religion, keep it family friendly, so nothing you wouldn't want your child to see if he/she passed by your computer screen.

Most of other stuff is ok, but keep in mind that we don't delete posts or threads without a court order and you can't edit your posts after 30 minutes to avoid misuse so what you once post, stays on the internets

[Grant Lamontagne]

Hey Carbide Cruzer, I am glad to see that you are liking the forum so far, and I hope that you continue to feel that way for a long time to come.

I started this forum just over 13 years ago, and if you would like to read the calamities that lead up to what it is today, you are welcome to check out the Hostory of MTO thread.  In short, we don't do politics or religion as stated for the above stated reason- people have very strong feelings regarding these topics, it makes enemies out of friends, and no one is likely to accomplish anything by pushing their thoughts on anyone else.  As nothing constructive can result, we see no reason to allow it.  That having been said, the mods here have never been heavy handed, and so you don't have to worry about telling a story of using your Swiss Army Knife at a church function, or the number of multitools spotted at a local political rally.  We have had many members say things like "God blessed me with ________" and there is no issue with that kind of thing.  Everyone is entitled to their political and ethnic beliefs, and I hope to be long cold in the ground when that ever changes.

The Family Friendly thing is something that happened a bit more organically as we have had several members over the years share MTO with their children.  We aren't above a few dirty jokes here and there, though, and feel free to type in any bad words that you like in any rants or other posts where you feel they are appropriate.  The forum automatically changes the bad words to "smurf"  so the kiddies can't say they learned bad words here, but everyone here will have a pretty good idea of what you mean! 

Lastly, I think the only other thing worth mentioning is that while some of these guys seem to think pretty highly of me, I am just another person, and I firmly believe that no member here is beneath me.  If you, or anyone else ever have an issue on the site, I am always here for members.

Lately I have been absolute crap at returning PM's to people (hang in there folks, I will get back to all of you!) due to some real life business, but I will always do my best to look after members and answer any questions you may have.  Here at Multitool.org, we look after our own- we always have, we always will.   

Def

[Poncho65]

Everything has been said that I would have but we didn't even use to have the no politics no religion rule it flaired up early on so that rule was put in place to keep as much peace on here as possible but other than that we let as much go as we can, long as there isn't trouble caused by it our members self moderate for the most part, which makes my job and the others job much easier if you see something that you think might not should fit in with MTO then report it and we can look into it

Overall we all try to just relax and enjoy ourselves here and talk about tools first and foremost but also many, many other topics

[SteveC]

 

[CarbideCruzer]

Thank you to every person that has commented; especially Def and the moderators.  Let me please assure everyone, my intention is not to make topics or discuss politics, religion or social issues here.  As an American, I can assure everyone these topics are addressed virtually everywhere especially in area's where I sincerely don't see how they are germane to the topics.  In addition, I more interested in transparency and discussions.   I've been a member of several forums that will remain nameless and I can appreciate understanding what is and what isn't accepted here. 

One would think for profit corporations and all businesses would adopt this model and what other's have referenced as they are in the business of making money.  Never a smart idea to intentionally alienate any paying customers.  Some people will whine and complain for no legitimate reason, but that will happen anywhere.

That said, I am not in favor of censorship, compelled speech or herd mentality so I figured this would be best to see the general consensus.   What never ceases to amaze me is how easily some individuals in other realm's in the internet take the opinions of others especially with tool brands.  To each their own as I said in my first post as at the end of the day, I am also not in favor of a nanny mindset or policing other's thoughts.

Another question I have is there a rule or general understanding not to mention country of origin of products?  With me being an American and having friends/family in the manufacturing aspect, I am naturally in favor of domestic manufacturing.  Personally this has absolutely nothing do with politics with me as much as this has to do with Americans working and taking care of their families.  Pretty cool that over the years online I've had the wonderful opportunity to make friends with those in other countries, so I'd like to stress I don't hate anyone from different countries, rather support my country first and foremost.  As I imagine this is the case with other countries as well.

Not every tool or every item I own is USA made and I'll be the first to mention to positively remark on items that aren't USA made as well.  Be it the Knipex mini bolt cutters, Sog PowerLock, Teeny Turner etc.  I'll admit, I don't have brand preference per say, rather I do have preference to supporting American manufacturing and keeping Americans employed. 

[Dutch_Tooler]

Just speaking as a moderately recently joined member, there does not seem to me to be any marked reticence to one's declaring origins or tool preferences in this forum. For one my tool preferences have been known to shift, and I know this has happened to other fellow members too. There is certainly no specific prohibition towards declaring one's pride on one's nation's prowess at making multitools, nor other aspects of national pride (of which I have a certain amount myself, despite the apparent diminutive country size). There is no link to politics in my view. And Def said it all, otherwise.

[Mechanickal]

I think...
You're overthinking

Just relax and enjoy your stay. Nothing wrong with having a preference for one's nationaly made tools, no alienated mods who lock your threads and threat to block your account...

You just found the right place on the internet

Welcome!!

[CarbideCruzer]

Perhaps you are right.  Thus far this has been a refreshing to see a site that's main focus is on tools and or gear related subjects.  To me country of origin is of importance, but at the end of the day, I say let other's spend their money as they please.   Glad Snap-On, Tekton, Channellock, , Gerber, Spydereco and a host of other manufacturers and distributors such as Grainger and Zoro list this information. 

[Huntsman]

Having your preference for 'homemade' is good. It's great to support local manufacturing - Although, of course many companies, are finding it too costly these days.

I had the great pleasure of meting Tim Leatherman when he was in Sydney last year and he was asked about offshore manufacturing
For me, he gave  a very surprising and interesting answer - I was expecting something around keeping tight control of quality  etc etc
However he said the reason they manufacture 100% in Portland was to provide the jobs and opportunities to the local community and workforce  !!    
It was almost as if his belief was Portland depended upon LM. 

Re Back to countries of manufacture - There is a very popular Swiss manufacturer discussed quite frequently in these forums !! You might want to check them out!!           

On the general site questions - I would add one unspoken rule that we have here:  We respect each other and each others opinions - and we try not to let things get personal
We acknowledge that people have different preferences, requirements and needs and that sometimes a discussion on 'the best multitool' is dependent on these things.
ie What is best for me and my needs, may not be what is best for you.
So let's openly discuss our views - But recognise that there is no right answer - or maybe that there are many right answers !    

[Aloha]

  to others who have chimed in.   


Welcome.  MTO is unlike many forums.  We tend to get folks from those other forums who have tired from the drama.  Its my way, no highway option mentalities.  For the most part members self regulate very well.  While free speech is something we all cherish theres no room here however for people who want to get on their soapbox or find it necessary to create a hostile noninclusive environment.  Heck that doesn't work in "real life".  There are a great number of forums or other places on the net to debate politics, religion, and everything else under the sun as you know.  Theres no shortage of places to do most anything on the net for that matter.  It always surprises me when folk find us and try to undermine what Grant has created here. 

MTO is about tools tho you'll see its about community as well.  We take that very serious here.  Like the tools you like.  Buy the tools you like.  By local if that floats your boat.  I love red heads and no one can tell me otherwise.  We are here to discuss tools not debate or berate others choices of tools or where they get them.  In short order MTO flushes out those who come with agendas.  Our members are what make MTO a little slice of wonderful on the net, which we tend to fiercely guard.

I've always followed the simple rule of pause.  I as well as a great many here ( if not all ) tend to follow as well.  Pause before you hit send.  Pause before you decide to be offended.  Pause before you decide to tell someone they are wrong.  Pause before stepping onto your soapbox.  Pause and take a deep breath and remember we are all here to enjoy.  Pause as there are a great many languages spoken and mistakes happen.  Pause as "tone" is easily mistaken.  Pause and remember no one is here to attack you.  Pause to always extend courtesy as you expect it in return.  Pausing before you react really does keep our forum peaceful for the most part.

Dive in the waters great and again Welcome to MTO. 

[CarbideCruzer]

Thank you both to Aloha and  Huntsman for your detailed responses.  Aloha is very much correct this forum is much different than other forums, but from my experience thus far, this is for the better.  While I won't pretend I don't enjoy some drama as an observer, I also believe there is a time and place for it as well.  Also, this is no longer  fun if this becomes slanderous or worse.  Don't worry moderators, I have no intention of intentionally starting any conflicts.  I've seen way too much of that elsewhere and instead of having discussions, this becomes a "us versus them mentality" and that only breeds hostility.  There is a reason I go well out of my way to avoid sports, "entertainment" or so called entertainment anymore. 

MTO is about tools tho you'll see its about community as well.  We take that very serious here.  Like the tools you like.  Buy the tools you like.  By local if that floats your boat.  I love red heads and no one can tell me otherwise.  We are here to discuss tools not debate or berate others choices of tools or where they get them.  In short order MTO flushes out those who come with agendas.  Our members are what make MTO a little slice of wonderful on the net, which we tend to fiercely guard.

Very wise statement here and one I'd like to think most people could agree with.  Personally I prefer Channellock over Knipex (despite owning some of their tools) and I also prefer Gerber multi tools over other brands as well.  However, I am perfectly fine with others having difference of opinion and I say let people spend their money on what they want.  Not into telling others how to think or what to do at all.

However, I do support the concept of "speaking" with your wallet, but what I've noticed tends to rub people the wrong way is what is listed (among other aspects) Aloha listed at the bottom of the posting.