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Dating of old Champion with LNF

qwerty85 · 8 · 965
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Offline qwerty85

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Dating of old Champion with LNF
on: September 12, 2025, 04:08:48 PM
Dear community,

I'm interested in your valuable opinion w.r.t. dating my old Champion with LNF, "sharpened" cap lifter, fish caler without ruler and tweezers with nickel silver tip.

The model no. should be 246 fma / fmau. Afaik, the letter 'u' was also used for the new keyring, after Victorionox had abandoned the bail/shackle. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

That's my current dating result according to the dating tool of Elsinox (only the most relevant attributes and periods are listed). I'm helpful for corrections and more insights.

Tang stamp VSSR/VaOS: 1957 - 1973
No bail, but key ring: >= 1968 or >= 1969 ("green" cell* in sheet of Elsinox)
Corkscrew with 5 turns and groove: <= 1972
Cap lifter/screwdriver with sharpened edge (Elsinox calls it "bender & stripper"): <= 1971
Can opener without PAT: >= 1971 or >= 1972 ("green" cell* in sheet of Elsinox)
Clip-point small blade with "new ricasso form": <= 1973

* According to the explanation video on https://elsinox.com/Praegestempel-Tang-Stamps-Dating-Tool/, a "green" cell in the sheet of Elsinox means: "The color green indicates a transitional year where both the yellow and blue specialties were available."

If I put this altogether, I'll end up with 1971.
Is this correct?

One attribute of the scissors is unclear to me: The nail nick is kind of grooved/serrated (see pic no. 2). Do you know if this is anything special or when they produced this?

Any other attributes or specialities I forgot for the dating or the overall value of the knife?

Thanks in advance for your opinion!

Best,
qwerty85
« Last Edit: September 12, 2025, 04:16:16 PM by qwerty85 »

Offline qwerty85

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Re: Dating of old Champion with LNF
Reply #1 on: September 17, 2025, 09:29:53 PM
Does anybody have an opinion on this? :)

us Offline IMR4198

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Re: Dating of old Champion with LNF
Reply #2 on: September 17, 2025, 09:41:20 PM
   Sounds like you checked all the ID boxes already, qwerty.  Probably why nobody else did anything except read and look at your nice photos.  Every once in a while I try to look up the characteristics of something I have to figure out a date.  More or less.  Inevitably I forget what I figured out. 
    I don't think the lack of response was a sign of anything in particular.  Sometimes you just don't get a lot of answers.  Best wishes.  Gary
 :cheers:
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us Offline Farmer X

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Re: Dating of old Champion with LNF
Reply #3 on: September 18, 2025, 03:26:12 AM
I agree with Gary. Sounds like you've done your due diligence. It is worth noting that dating a knife is often not an exact science. Cutlers don't like to let things go to waste, and things like the five-turn corkscrew and sharpened cap lifter may well have been used concurrently with their replacements. Whatever the case, it's a nice old SAK! :tu:
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Merit Badges Participants shall carry and use one Soldier knife, the model of their choosing, for the duration of the 90 days and post a picture each day. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Farmer X SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Delemont SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread or Post in a Challenge Thread and post a photo of a Spartan  for 30 days Start a new thread with photos of at least 6 SAKs of different frame lengths and/or shapes in your collection. Eg 58mm, 74mm, 84mm regular, 84mm slim, 85mm etc Participate in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a SAK-alike, aka multi-layered, knife-based pocket tools for thirty (30) consecutive days. Find him! Participate in a Challenge thread, carry knife/tool with a blade 4" or longer, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. Participate in a Challenge thread, carry at least one green edc item, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. Participate in a Challenge thread, carry a Victorinox Hiker, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. Must start a thread with a photo of at least five (5) of your watches Build your own version of an MRE using off-the-shelf components, post a photo of the completed MRE and store at room temperature for 6 days or more. Consume the MRE after the storage period and post pictures and descriptions of the contents. Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Participate in a Challenge and post a photo of a Utility Knife for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate  in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a LM Pocket Survival Tool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the pen for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread with photos of your zip ties in use Complete a 30 day challenge for carrying a different Multi tool each day of the week based on one of the daily carry threads Participate in a Challenge and post a photo of a Traditional Scout Knife (No SAK's Allowed) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month.

Offline qwerty85

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Re: Dating of old Champion with LNF
Reply #4 on: September 18, 2025, 08:04:14 PM
Thanks for your replies, Gary and Farmer X.
I'm aware that there might be certain uncertainties w.r.t. dating and that referencing to one exact year can be problematic. :)

Does somebody of you know if the grooved/serrated nail nick of the scissors (see pic no. 2) is something special or can be dated to some specific period of time?

Best,
qwerty85

us Offline IMR4198

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Re: Dating of old Champion with LNF
Reply #5 on: September 18, 2025, 09:05:27 PM
    I would call that 'tool chatter'.  Cutter didn't make a clean cut.  I could be wrong.  I will enclose SAAM's chart for 91mm scissors.  Might be of some interest.  Best wishes.  G
 :cheers:  [ You are not allowed to view this attachment ]  
Merit Badges Start a new thread with photos of at least 5 different Wenger models in your collection Start a new thread and post a photo daily of any SAK 74mm or smaller ( you can switch it up daily ) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Delemont SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. Complete a 30 day challenge for carrying a different Multi tool each day of the week based on one of the daily carry threads Start a new thread and post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month. Must start a thread with a photo of your EDC watch Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for fifteen (15) consecutive days. Must start new thread with photos of multitools (Magazine/Catalogue type photos) Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for seven (7) consecutive days. Participate in a challenge by carrying  a 100mm or 108mm SAK and post a photo of it  for thirty (30) consecutive days. Post your pocket dump photos then challenge two more members who must post their pocket dump photos within 24hrs for you to get the badge. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Classic SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a MiniChamp SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a tool made in a specific country for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread with photos of at least 6 SAKs of different frame lengths and/or shapes in your collection. Eg 58mm, 74mm, 84mm regular, 84mm slim, 85mm etc Start a new thread with photos of your Buck knives in use Participate in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a SAK-alike, aka multi-layered, knife-based pocket tools for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate in a Challenge thread and post a photo of  a Bladeless Multitool for 30 days Participate in a Challenge thread and post a photo of  a Opinel  knife  for 30 days Participate in a Challenge thread, carry knife/tool with a blade 4" or longer, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. Participate in a Challenge thread, carry a SAK, duct tape, and paperclip, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days.

us Offline Farmer X

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Re: Dating of old Champion with LNF
Reply #6 on: September 19, 2025, 02:34:43 AM
I think Gary hit the nail on the head. The grooves in the nail nick itself were probably not intentional. However, some knives have grooves cut around the nail nick. Those are called "match strike pulls."
USN 2000-2006

Culling of the knife and multi herds in progress...

If I pay five figures for something, it better have wings or a foundation!
Merit Badges Participants shall carry and use one Soldier knife, the model of their choosing, for the duration of the 90 days and post a picture each day. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Farmer X SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Delemont SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread or Post in a Challenge Thread and post a photo of a Spartan  for 30 days Start a new thread with photos of at least 6 SAKs of different frame lengths and/or shapes in your collection. Eg 58mm, 74mm, 84mm regular, 84mm slim, 85mm etc Participate in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a SAK-alike, aka multi-layered, knife-based pocket tools for thirty (30) consecutive days. Find him! Participate in a Challenge thread, carry knife/tool with a blade 4" or longer, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. Participate in a Challenge thread, carry at least one green edc item, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. Participate in a Challenge thread, carry a Victorinox Hiker, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. Must start a thread with a photo of at least five (5) of your watches Build your own version of an MRE using off-the-shelf components, post a photo of the completed MRE and store at room temperature for 6 days or more. Consume the MRE after the storage period and post pictures and descriptions of the contents. Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Participate in a Challenge and post a photo of a Utility Knife for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate  in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a LM Pocket Survival Tool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the pen for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread with photos of your zip ties in use Complete a 30 day challenge for carrying a different Multi tool each day of the week based on one of the daily carry threads Participate in a Challenge and post a photo of a Traditional Scout Knife (No SAK's Allowed) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month.

au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Dating of old Champion with LNF
Reply #7 on: September 19, 2025, 04:53:30 AM
This is what I use for dating SAKs  .....  Not surprisingly   ;)
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.0.html

Lots of other dating and identification resources here:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,75774.0.html

There are also tool specific dating resources from MiniChamp (originating from here - But now ....) in the Wiki for the saw and screwdriver - Check the links.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2025, 07:24:15 AM by Huntsman »
Merit Badges Must update or add a page on SAKWiki Start a new thread with photos of a Japanese made PST in your collection Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store Start a new thread with a photo of your custom ALOX with scissors Start a thread with photos of at least 1 MTO branded tool in your collection Post your pocket dump photos then challenge two more members who must post their pocket dump photos within 24hrs for you to get the badge. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Must start a thread with a photo of your birth year SAK Must start a thread showing a photo of at least three BO tools Start a thread with photos of at least eight different colored ALOX models in your collection Start a new thread and post a photo of a flashlight as part of your EDC Start a thread with a photo of a repair you made with duct tape Must put something in order and provide link to the post. Start a new thread with a photo of custom or non standard SAK scales in your collection

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