Another school shot up...

[Grant Lamontagne]

It's amazing isn't it?  This time it was in PA, last month in Montreal, Columbine a few years ago and a few years before that, the Polytechnic Institute in Quebec.  People are always saying that kids are the future of the world, and yet we seem to be leaving them open as targets.  Admittedly, some of these aren't children, but young adults, but still, they usually aren't in a position to defend themselves or even evacuate properly.

I think we need to hire more security in schools and maybe have guards ate entry points ensuring that only legitimate students get in, and that they aren't carrying anything that appears to be a weapon.  I don't advocate searching students, but these guys only target the easy spots.  Make it harder for them to get in, and they'll probably go elsewhere.  Not the best solution, but at least the kids will be safe.

And, if these guys are ever taken alive, they should be put in a room wit hthe parent's of the kids who were injured or killed, and give the parents baseball bats.  THAT'S a deterrant.  Jail isn't a deterrant, and neither is getting their heads blown off since they are likely to do that anyways.

Def

[Fred]

Sad isnt it?I'd like to pound some sense into the guy as well.Course it was an ahmish school so they probably wouldn't have much in the way of security anyways.And definately no metal detectors

[colubrid]

Personally I think the whole security and metal deetctors , "no tolerance" ect ect thing is ridiculous.

When i went to school we were allowed to carry pocketkifes. Some kids brought their hunting rifles to school and just drpped them off at the pricipals office. We did not have those problesm through history, what changed?

Today if a kid attacks another and they fight back both are suspended and the parents are fined. Does not matter whos fault it is.


If we lay a hand on our kids they have us arrrested and they have the control and upper hand. I am sick of agencies like defax taking away our parental rights.


What are we teaching kids? That we are idiots???

Tha answer is not more security. This country was based on biblical principles. Now that they have taken this out of schools people are surprised.

[Sea Monster]

Here's one for the headdesk crowd.


I went past a metal detector, four bouncers, and a drug dog to get into a night club (I only attend classy parties  ) -

They confiscated my ball point pen* (  ) but I got through with two SAKs?




*Which I'm really pissed about, that pen meant a lot to me. It was just a plastic Pentel or something, but it was mine.

[Whoey]

*Which I'm really pissed about, that pen meant a lot to me. It was just a plastic Pentel or something, but it was mine.

oooh vintage pentel... I'd be so pissed about that...

Lets not also forget about the shootings up in Mikko's neck of the woods... this is not a problem limited to just North America...

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Yeah pen's are on the watch list when you go clubing these days , which is annoying as how the hell are you suposed to remember a birds number any other way

On the other hand I've seen fella's stabbed with pen's, which despite being very funny to watch (I'm slightly warped) probably stings a bit

[Tarrodemierda]

It's amazing isn't it?  This time it was in PA, last month in Montreal, Columbine a few years ago and a few years before that, the Polytechnic Institute in Quebec.  People are always saying that kids are the future of the world, and yet we seem to be leaving them open as targets.  Admittedly, some of these aren't children, but young adults, but still, they usually aren't in a position to defend themselves or even evacuate properly.

I think we need to hire more security in schools and maybe have guards ate entry points ensuring that only legitimate students get in, and that they aren't carrying anything that appears to be a weapon.  I don't advocate searching students, but these guys only target the easy spots.  Make it harder for them to get in, and they'll probably go elsewhere.  Not the best solution, but at least the kids will be safe.

And, if these guys are ever taken alive, they should be put in a room wit hthe parent's of the kids who were injured or killed, and give the parents baseball bats.  THAT'S a deterrant.  Jail isn't a deterrant, and neither is getting their heads blown off since they are likely to do that anyways.

Def

"And, if these guys are ever taken alive, they should be put in a room wit hthe parent's of the kids who were injured or killed, and give the parents baseball bats.  THAT'S a deterrant.  Jail isn't a deterrant, and neither is getting their heads blown off since they are likely to do that anyways."


plus one

[Teofilo]

I'm with you guys. But..how do you (we) really put a stop on these nonsense killings? stricter and tougher gun laws? I assume some cases are drug related. I hope and pray it'l end.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Stricter gun laws won't accomplish anything.  The kids that did the school in Columbine a few years ago used illegally purchased firearms and home made explosives, proving that when you are planning to shoot up a school or other public place, you aren't likely to be discouraged by the fact that you didn't register your gun.  How many of them ever said "Gee, you know I'd love to empty my clip into a crowd of people, but it's such a pain in the butt to have that ten day waiting period, so I think I'll just go and get some ice cream instead."

Nomad hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that he was let into a club with two SAKs, but his pen was taken away.  The sad reality is that the vast majority of security people on the planet are working security simply because they could not pass the "strict" requirements to work in the Fast Food industry.  Seriously- I am not being sarcastic when I say that.  I have actually met guards who were guards simply because they either could not speak English, they looked unappetizing (one gentleman had botched back surgery which left him with a twitch where he bent over backwards and stuck his tongue out), or were simply too dumb to flip a burger when the timer went off.

Last weekend I was working at a dockyard about 140kms from the city.  Ever since 9-11, dockyards have all become federal property, and have all been given the "high security" treatment, meaning there are high fences with barbed wire, access controls etc.  When I showed up to this dockyard last Sunday, the guard was no where to be seen, so I decided to wait at the gate for a moment in case he was on rounds.  After a few minutes there was still no sign of him, so I got out to see if the idiot was asleep in the guard shack.  Using my Fenix to light everything up, I couldn't see him in the shack, but I did find him asleep in his car, parked next to the shack.  Interestingly enough, he wasn't just dozed off, he was so far gone that even shining a high intensity LED light in his face didn't disturb him.

So, deciding to give him the benefit of the doubt I went back to my Jeep, got in and blew the horn.  Bear in mind I am less than twenty feet from him....  and yet he still didn't wake up.  So, I laid on the horn, holding it for about 10 seconds, and he still didn't wake up.  Finally I said to hell with him, lifted the gate on my own and propped it up with a shovel.  I then drove through, and while I did momentarily consider leaving the gate wide open, I decided to let it down.  So, I stopped the Jeep right in front of his car, got out, pulled the shovel out from the arm and let it slam shut with a resounding thud, that still didn't wake the guard.  I then got back in the Jeep and went on my way to the ship I was working with, and called my boss to let him know I'd just broken several laws. 

These are the idiots that are protecting your home, your business and your family.  Around here, guard companies bill anywhere between $18 and $25/hour, but pay $8/hour to the guard, which is as little as you can legally pay someone in this province.  You pay little, you get little, and the reality is that company management makes twice what the guards do, while the guards are doing the real work and taking the risks.  So, you aren't exactly getting the cream of the crop to fill the positions, and as I've proven time and again, they are very easy to defeat.

Another amusing story about the pathetic state of security people- to work the docks you are supposed to have a federally issued dock ID.  This ID gets you into every dockyard in the country.  I have been working the docks for almost a year now and I still haven't bothered to apply for the ID.  I have been asked for it maybe 5 times, and was allowed through each time without it.

So, what do we need?  Not stricter laws, just more intelligent, better paid and better trained security people, with the training and experience to deal with problems as they arise.  There's no point in enacting stricter laws if the ones that are already in place aren't being enforced.

Def

[Nikos]

Def that was very well put, but I believe you are only touching the surface of the problem. The weapon laws are much stricter in my part of the globe, although there are actually regions in Greece where people each have a small (illegal, of course) arsenal at home (e.g. Crete and Mani); I even know of a guy who owns and maintains a 50-mil anti-aircraft gun from the WW II on the terrace of his house. The situation you described wrt security guards is more or less the same here. BUT (thank God) we never ever had any school shot-ups or any other such incidents. This whole issue goes much deeper than gun laws and security personnel competency etc...

[Anthony]

The current state of affairs with an almost useless workforce here in America took dacades to make, and it will most likely take decades to repair, if ever.

I wasn't around in the 1940's, but I assume a security guard then being paid the bare minimum wage on the docks would take his job just as serious as a four star general on the front lines.  And I bring up the 1940's to compare to today because there is also a war going one belive it or not.  You woulden't know from reading the paper or watching TV, but there is a war going on with a pretty ruthless enemy who adheres to no rules whatsoever.

School shootings are another story...I'm sure the majority of the murderers who commit killing sprees like that would be locked up early on in another time...put in a mental hospital.  Are there even any mental hospitals these days?  Asylums? 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Proper security is only ne aspect, but it's a potent one.  If guns are not available, anyone wanting to cause problems can find other means- there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of household chemicals that can be made to explode, poison or otherwise hurt people, or you could simply get a good run and drive your car down the sidewalk at lunchtime in the financial district of your city, all with the same results. 

Proper security can react to these things faster, minimizing their effects, and/or deal effectively with the aftermath.  Surprise and random attacks are going to happen- they are effective and that's why they happen, but better to have someone there to deal with it (who isn't asleep or sticking their tongue out) than no one at all.

Def

[Nikos]

Don't take me wrong... I'm all for proper security measures. However, for every security measure, there is at least a matching way of bypassing it. In my humble opinion, this type of behaviors (such as killing sprees) are the outcome of something going wrong with a people's culture, education, up-bringing, way of life, or a combination of the above. Tighter security or stricter laws come in very late in the game...

[665ae]

Here's a thought... take responsibility for your own safety and security.  Give people the means (or stop limiting their means) to take care of themselves and the people they care about, and you'd be surprised what would happen...

[donvito]

In some of the instances the shooter would announce his plan by internet, telling a friend, or in some other way. Increased awareness for signs like this  is needed. Not over paranoia, like calling the cops each time someone says he or she hates the teacher. Usually if it's something disturbing then it might be something to look in to.

[Anthony]

Here's a thought... take responsibility for your own safety and security.  Give people the means (or stop limiting their means) to take care of themselves and the people they care about, and you'd be surprised what would happen...

Who was it that said "An armed society is a polite society"?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Noth, you are exactly right, but how do you "correct" people's behavior without interfering with their personal freedoms?  That's the hard part...

As for the "Every Man for Himself" theory, I can't agree with that.  While I think ultimately everyone is responsible for themselves, that's not something that every person is capable of, and there are always situations beyond each individual's control or ability to deal with.

Def

[Nikos]

I don't know the answer to that. However, I do believe that what happens right now is a textbook example of reverse psychology; treat someone as a criminal for long enough and he may get to become one...