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Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose

Offline ringzero

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Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
on: August 15, 2007, 11:17:27 PM
This web merchant offers the MP 600 Bluntnose, including bit adapter kit, for the same price as a plain Diesel.  A bit adapter kit can be added to Diesel for about 14 bucks additional:

Diesel  http://www.rockynational.com/1804_22-01470_Gerber_Multi-Plier_Diesel_w_Sheath.html

MP 600 Bluntnose  http://www.rockynational.com/1148_07510_Gerber_Multi-Plier_600_Basic_Blunt_Nose_w_Tool_Kit_w_Sheath.html


I was inquiring after the relative merits of these tools on another thread about multis for automotive backup use.  No one answered my inquiry on that thread, so I'm re-asking the question in this thread.

I've used a friend's Diesel a few times, but have never seen or handled an MP 600 Bluntnose, not even in a store.  Some of you MTO regulars have probably owned both tools, or at least handled both.

Which of these tools would be better suited for heavy-duty use?  Are the MP 600 Bluntnose pliers signifigantly tougher than Diesel needlenose pliers?

.


   
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us Offline Spoonrobot

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #1 on: August 16, 2007, 10:31:31 AM
I would think that the Bluntnose would be much stronger than the fat needlenose on the Diesel but you would lose some of the general utility of the latter's form factor.

Overall the two tools represent different generations of the same operating system. The Diesel is an improvement over the MP600 series in almost every way related to use. It is slightly larger/heavier but the tool selection and ergonomics make up for this in spades.

My recommendation; it's better to have a selection of tools in the car so I would get the Diesel because it has more and better tools than the MP600BN and then take 10-15$ and get a mid-range pair of bluntnose pliers at Sears or a similar store. This solves a multitude of problems because you now have two sets of pliers to work in harmony or perform different tasks related to their form factor, you gain a woodsaw that was missing from the MP600BN and you gain the general ergonomic and tool upgrades of the Diesel. Good show.

FYI: Wal-Mart offers the Diesel with the bit kit for 49.99$ in store.


Offline ringzero

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #2 on: August 23, 2007, 09:11:09 AM
I would think that the Bluntnose would be much stronger than the fat needlenose on the Diesel but you would lose some of the general utility of the latter's form factor.

Overall the two tools represent different generations of the same operating system. The Diesel is an improvement over the MP600 series in almost every way related to use. It is slightly larger/heavier but the tool selection and ergonomics make up for this in spades.


Belated thanks for the thoughtful response, Spoonrobot.

I missed seeing your reply, then lost track of this thread until today.

Now that I think about it, you're probably right about needlenose being generally more useful than bluntnose pliers for an automotive backup multitool.  Toughness is important, but it isn't everything.
 

My recommendation; it's better to have a selection of tools in the car so I would get the Diesel because it has more and better tools than the MP600BN and then take 10-15$ and get a mid-range pair of bluntnose pliers at Sears or a similar store. This solves a multitude of problems because you now have two sets of pliers to work in harmony or perform different tasks related to their form factor, you gain a woodsaw that was missing from the MP600BN and you gain the general ergonomic and tool upgrades of the Diesel. Good show.

FYI: Wal-Mart offers the Diesel with the bit kit for 49.99$ in store.

Good suggestion.  Since I already keep compound leverage bluntnose pliers in the trunk, it really isn't necessary for the car multitool to have bluntnose pliers also.

Thanks for the pointer to a great price for Diesels at WalMart.  Last time I checked, the local WalMart didn't have any Diesels, but I'll try again.

.
N


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #3 on: August 24, 2007, 01:08:40 AM
Somehow I missed this thread the first time through as well. I agree with Spoon that the Diesel would be preferable to the bluntnose 600. I really like the Diesel. Very solid feel, no rattle, no pinchy handles. My only complaint has to do with the new flat-style phillips screwdriver blade. The old Gerber square phillips was better, but it took up two tool spaces in the handle. Well worth it IMO.

Bob
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


Offline ringzero

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #4 on: August 24, 2007, 04:55:20 AM
I really like the Diesel. Very solid feel, no rattle, no pinchy handles. My only complaint has to do with the new flat-style phillips screwdriver blade. The old Gerber square phillips was better, but it took up two tool spaces in the handle. Well worth it IMO.

Bob


Thanks for the recommendation, J-sews.

I agree about that flat Phillips screwdriver being the weak point of the Diesel.  My Suspension has the same style driver.  Works fairly well on small to medium screws, but for bigger screws - forget about it.

This issue could be largely ameliorated by getting the bit adapter kit along with the Diesel.  Comes with nine bits that fit a variety of fasteners and connects via the Diesel's flat Phillips driver.

.
N


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #5 on: August 24, 2007, 10:48:01 AM
After having read the review of both models, and my own experience of motorcycle breakdowns >:( , I've got to say go for the diesel :).

Not only has it got the better range of tool's but the nose plier's are an advantage to my mind as the other that little bit more reach and (being smaller at the tip) greater accessability to the vehicle's electrics, fuses excetera. :)

I'd best start saving for  diesel then ::)
Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!


Offline damota

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #6 on: August 25, 2007, 01:53:56 AM
I am going to put a spanner into the answers you have had up to now.
The major moan with knife users was that Gerbers rattled so they tried to cure that by replacing one of the major stress areas on the MP600 design with plastic. I do not know what plastic they have used but IMHO it has messed the design and I have doubts about it's long time strength. The Diesel is good but the sliding mechanism is not as free now so the tool has to be held tight by one of the arms and given a violent flick compared to a MP600. The Freehand is even worse after 6 - 9 months in the field the head would creep like cheap zoom lens's do just by the weight of the head. The head on the Diesel is the new head off the Chinese folders and some of the handle tools are not as well made as the MP600s. The knife blade on mine is kind of V shaped as if the straight edge had been put on by one tool and then they had just slapped it on to another tool to do the serrated half. The MP600 comes with one serrated and one straight edge and is also available with a half and half as well and it is done right.
I have stopped using my Diesel until I can get those plastic parts replaced with metal sometime (anyone got a fly press?)
As far as I am concerned the rattle is and always was the important thing about the Gerber design. It kept the cost down without any compromise to the tools strength. They have chosen one way to quieten it and I think they have compromised on the strength. The alternative would have been some fancy ball race or rollers that would have a fortune.
I am buying a few when funds allow because unfortunately from what I hear the rest of the Gerber range are think they might just let them run down. The Fisherman only lasted long enough to get rid of the Technician head from the Evolution.

Dave


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #7 on: August 25, 2007, 03:59:54 AM
I hear what you're saying Dave. The Diesel isn't perfect, but I think it would be better than the blunt nosed 600. (Original question that was asked.)


In order to really compare apples-to-apples, we would have to pit the Diesel against a needlenosed 600. 
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


Offline ringzero

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #8 on: August 25, 2007, 07:27:37 AM
I am going to put a spanner into the answers you have had up to now...The major moan with knife users was that Gerbers rattled so they tried to cure that by replacing one of the major stress areas on the MP600 design with plastic. I do not know what plastic they have used but IMHO it has messed the design and I have doubts about it's long time strength.


Hmmm....   Wasn't aware that the newer Diesel model utilizes plastic as a load bearing surface.  That doesn't sound so good.

The Diesel that I was able to try out and examine was probably one of the older models.  Certainly didn't notice that it had plastic in the sliding plier mechanism.


The head on the Diesel is the new head off the Chinese folders and some of the handle tools are not as well made as the MP600s. The knife blade on mine is kind of V shaped as if the straight edge had been put on by one tool and then they had just slapped it on to another tool to do the serrated half.


Are the newer Diesels made in China now?  Somewhere, I got the impression that Diesel, the MP400 and the MP600 series were all made in U.S. - but I could be wrong on that.


I am buying a few when funds allow because unfortunately from what I hear the rest of the Gerber range are think they might just let them run down. The Fisherman only lasted long enough to get rid of the Technician head from the Evolution.  Dave


Buying a few Diesels or buying something else?

Are you suggesting that Gerber is about to drop the Diesel, MP400 and MP600 series from its multitool lineup?

I could never see the reason why Gerber dropped the Fisherman model, as it seemed to be popular amongst fishermen.  Maybe Fisherman sales weren't so good, but I know several people who bought them and liked them.  It was a unique, if very specialized multitool.


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Offline ringzero

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #9 on: August 25, 2007, 07:38:47 AM
I hear what you're saying Dave. The Diesel isn't perfect, but I think it would be better than the blunt nosed 600. (Original question that was asked.)

In order to really compare apples-to-apples, we would have to pit the Diesel against a needlenosed 600. 


Good point, J-sews - let's do that:

Which is the better multitool, the MP600 needlenose or the Diesel?

Which is stronger?

Which is more versatile?

Both are available with bit adapter kits - does the Diesel bit adapter kit make up for its deficient Phillips?

.
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us Offline Spoonrobot

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #10 on: August 25, 2007, 08:24:24 AM
FWIW my Diesel and Freehand say "MADE IN USA" on the back of the package, but there is not USA on the actual tool itself.

The plastic piece damota is speaking about is seen here:

Freehand on top, MP600 on bottom. I don't think that part is a load bearing item though, when I grip my MP600 pliers really hard the metal tab still rattles around indicating it is not affected by the load.

Now as far as MP600 v. Diesel:
Quote
Which is the better multitool, the MP600 needlenose or the Diesel?
This is a hard one and really depends on a lot of factors since there are two variations of the MP600.

For the MP600 with the serrated blade the Diesel wins hands down because it has a scissors, a saw, better ergonomics and larger wirecutters.

For the MP600 with the coupler it's a close race. The Diesel has larger scissors but the MP600 has the ability to take common saw blades. The MP600 has a ruler on the body but the Diesel has more drivers and more ergonomic handles. I would say that for the average multi-tool user the Diesel is the better choice because almost all of the features of the MP600 are found on the Diesel, only updated.

Quote
Which is stronger?
Another toughie.

The MP600 has thicker pliers and much thicker tips than the Diesel; although this could be a negative for fine work. So it appears the MP600 has stronger pliers and most assuredly stronger tips. However, the Diesel pliers are wider so they may be able to take more load. Interestingly enough the pivot pin of the MP600 is much wider than the Diesel so overall brute strength may go to the MP600. Also, as damota mentioned above, the Diesel does have that plastic doo-hicky which may be a weak point. So far no one has noted failure but it is still plastic replacing metal.

Quote
Which is more versatile?
Again, depending on the model.

The MP600 with the saw coupler has the ability to take woodsaws, ceramic and metal saws while the Diesel only has a woodsaw and no metal saw ground on the file. The Diesel does have one more driver than this model though. The MP600 without the saw coupler pales in comparison to the Diesel and is missing several key features, as mentioned above.

I would say overall the ranking goes like this:

Tie #1: MP600 with the saw coupler/Diesel.
2nd: MP600 with serrated blade and no scissors.


us Offline Spoonrobot

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #11 on: August 25, 2007, 08:36:18 AM

I have been playing with my Diesel and Freehand and I am unconvinced that the plastic piece is a bad idea.

First, it is not a load-bearing surface and it's strength has little relation to the strength of the pliers. Next, it is possible to adjust the screws to achieve a looseness akin to the MP600 series, making flicking on par with the MP600 but still retaining some of the stay-closed power. Thus we can conclude that over the life of the tool it should be possible to tighten the screws and take-up any play developed from having a plastic piece. This offers an advantage of the MP600 which featured cast posts and a metal retainer that cannot be adjusted.

The best part is that Gerber is still making both models. FYI: The MP600's pliers also open wider than the Diesel's. 50mm and 40mm respectively.








The Diesel slider mechanism is still metal.



us Offline J-sews

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #12 on: August 25, 2007, 04:18:59 PM
Great pictures and analysis there Spoon!

As a sidebar, Dave (damota) did have a Diesel which had problems with the plastic slider. I've handled three different Diesels myself, with no problems.
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #13 on: August 25, 2007, 04:25:07 PM
......The head on the Diesel is the new head off the Chinese folders.......
Dave

I'm stealing Spoon's photo here to illustrate what damota is referring to. By means of this adapter device, Gerber appears to be using the plier head from their butterfly-opening tools on the slide-opening Diesel. Not a bad idea really, it allows them to use parts that are "already on the shelf." Works great as far as I'm concerned.

* DSCF0574.jpg (Filesize: 123.57 KB)
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


Offline damota

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #14 on: August 26, 2007, 03:00:01 AM
Oops I have been messing about with my Windows machine and it is off line so I got a bit of a surprise when I got back on the Linux and saw the posts.
As Bob stated I got first hand knowledge of the plastic bits fault. The Diesel I bought was damaged (the tee piece under neath was crushed) just by having one of those screws holding those plastic bits down, too tight. If that can be done in the factory I can not be sure they will stand up to the hammering my tools can get. Also if those plastic pieces were replaced by metal it would get rid of one of Bobs criticisms of the design - more of the pins would be standing higher than they are now because of the thickness of the plastic.
The separate plain and serrated blades are IMO the blades of choice and those are on the blunt nose. Most some have the Evolution head with the carbon cutters. The model I am going to stock up on is the Gerber Pro Scout (the one with the saw adapter). One I am going to use straight away to take the Paul Chen scissor head but I have been messing with a few other things at the moment so they will be on the back burner for a while (going to try for a discount by getting a few at the same time). I am hoping three or four spares will see me out.
My Freehand was made in  China and the Diesel was made in the USA with imported components, I would say the Freeman is the better made tool but the Diesels tool selection is the better of the two. The Flick might make a difference when we get to see one up close!
If it is strength you are looking for the Freehand is truly tough although the small handle tools are too small.

Dave

Edited to correct spellings and try to make sense out of it - I will have to go to bed on a night and stop trying to get 28 hours out of each day. :twak:
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 01:27:39 PM by damota »


us Offline WhichDawg

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #15 on: November 25, 2007, 11:51:35 AM
Ohh that Diesel does look fun, even the sales clerk at wally world had one, I came close! interesting thread :)


Offline Leatherman123

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Re: Gerber Diesel versus MP 600 Bluntnose
Reply #16 on: November 26, 2007, 12:20:52 AM
I have both. I personally don't like gerber tools but out of those I prefer the diesal. It has a really cool blade too!
B


 

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