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One of the great debates of all times

Poll

Do you consider a SAK to be a multitool?

Yes, a SAK is a type of Multitool
12 (66.7%)
No, a SAK is not a Multitool.
6 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: October 12, 2006, 01:24:25 AM

ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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One of the great debates of all times
on: October 05, 2006, 01:24:25 AM
For the purpoise of this question, we are referring to "standard" type SAKs from Victorinox or Wenger, excluding the SwissTool series, Spirts, Pocket Grips and SwissGrips.

It seems that if you go to one forum, SAKs and multis are considered to be very different tools, while on another forum they look on them all as the same thing, or at best, variations on the same thing.

How do you see it?

Def
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us Offline Fred

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #1 on: October 05, 2006, 01:54:48 AM
That's like saying a ferrari is a 4x4.Yeah they are similar but the testarossa wouldn't do very good in the mud.Similar ideas done very different ways
Yabba dabba doo!


us Offline LatinoHeat

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #2 on: October 05, 2006, 02:17:54 AM
A Ferrari and a 4x4 ARE the same in the sense that they are both motorized vehicles.  They both have windows, an engine, wheels, etc.  The fact that they are vehicles specifically designed to perform different tasks does not mean one is more a vehicle then the other.  They are both motorized terresterial vehicles.  It would be like saying a Boeing 747 and an F-16 are not both planes.  SURE they are.  They are just designed to perform different tasks, but both are still very much planes.  My SAK sportsman IS a multitool.  It has a knife, a can opener, tweezers, a toothpick, a bottle cap opener, screwdrivers, and a nail file.  It has multi tools, hence it is a multi tool.  It is NOT a knife, it is NOT a can opener.  It is a multi tool.  In as much as my leatherman Blast is a multi tool.  My Leatherman has pliers as well, which my Sportsman doesn't, but my Sak has toothpick and tweezers, which my Blast doesn't.  A multitool is NOT defined by ONE tool because it can't be.  Multitool = Multiple tools.  Simple. 


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #3 on: October 05, 2006, 02:30:47 AM
I can see we are going to have fun with this one!

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline prime77

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #4 on: October 05, 2006, 02:38:55 AM
After just reading Navajero316 post it has me thinking how I can I say that the my SwissChamp or SwissChamp XLT are not multitools when they have more tools than even my LM Core.
"


Offline gatch

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #5 on: October 05, 2006, 03:58:02 AM
A SAK is the original mulitool. Just because it doesn't have pliers (for most models) it doesn't mean that it is not a multitool.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #6 on: October 05, 2006, 05:04:15 AM
To me, this is one of those "yes and no" questions.

Yes, in the strict definition of the term, a SAK is a multipurpose tool.

But say the word "multitool" in a conversation, and most folks immediately picture a plier tool with folding knives. They don't envision a SAK, unless you say "Swiss Army Knife." So in the context of casual conversation, a multi tool and a SAK are two entirely different things.


In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


us Offline LatinoHeat

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #7 on: October 05, 2006, 02:38:18 PM
True, but say "Jeep" in a casual conversation with some people, and they envision ANY 4x4.  Layman's terms and truth aren't always the same.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #8 on: October 05, 2006, 02:48:31 PM
Good point.
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


ar Offline mcniac

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #9 on: October 05, 2006, 07:08:58 PM
personally i think that all of them should be classified as multitools, but i recognize that in a casual talking saks are not considered multitool, then again, a mistake in casual talking shouldnot lead us to make the same mistake, as an example here in Argentina (and in fact in most spanish talking places) people call "cortaplumas" to every folding knife, but cortaplumas means pen knife, not folding knife wich is "cuchilo plegable" then, even if most people call every folder a cortaplumas or even worse a "navaja" wich is a special kind of folder from Spain, it is not right

just my 2 cents

Esteban


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #10 on: October 05, 2006, 11:11:20 PM
Man I love the smell of a freshly opened can of worms in the morning!
Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #11 on: October 05, 2006, 11:24:22 PM
At the risk of sounding like I am trying to speak for Helena, here is an exerpt from her site, www.multitoolguide.com

The biggest difference between multi tools and Swiss Army Knives is still the pair of pliers. Some Swiss Army Knives have pliers, but they are only useful for small jobs.

Sounds like an important distinction to me...

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline parnass

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #12 on: October 05, 2006, 11:39:49 PM
.... Some Swiss Army Knives have pliers, but they are only useful for small jobs....



The Leatherman Squirt pliers are only useful for small jobs.
Retired engineer, author.

A man with one multitool always knows exactly which to use. A man with many multitools is never quite sure. - parnass


us Offline 665ae

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #13 on: October 06, 2006, 02:29:12 AM
There are a few tools that I've seen that are "multi-tools" that are only useful for small jobs.

My opinion is that they are multitools.  I do agree though, that when I hear "multitool" I immediately think of the pliers based tools.
If you took all the intestines out of your body and stretched them end to end... you would die.


Offline Ging

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #14 on: October 06, 2006, 03:23:57 PM
SAK's and Leatherman's etc are multi-tools as they are objects that have multiple tools in then, ie not just a knife or pliers.  But having said that the term 'multitool' in this context (ie multitool.org) are only plier (or scissor) based tools. 
E


Offline damota

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #15 on: October 07, 2006, 07:17:08 PM
This is like asking if this is a multi tool. A Wenger with every blade, tool they have made (85 apparently) on one tool  ;D
One thing for sure it is not a pocket knife.

Dave
Wenger-Giant-Knife.jpg
* Wenger-Giant-Knife.jpg (Filesize: 45.73 KB)


us Offline J-sews

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #16 on: October 08, 2006, 03:02:16 AM
My, what an enormous tool!
I notice that Wenger thoughtfully added EVO grips, to make it more comfortable and ergonomically friendly.
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


Offline damota

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #17 on: October 08, 2006, 11:38:33 AM
I like the way they have thoughtfully put a split ring on so if by any chance you do not have a pocket big enough you can hang it round your neck with a bit of string like a medallion  ;)

Dave


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #18 on: October 08, 2006, 01:10:48 PM
That's the Mr T model... 

"Ah piddy da foo who don't have aww da toos"

Def
« Last Edit: October 08, 2006, 01:12:26 PM by Defender »
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


Offline colubrid

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #19 on: October 13, 2006, 04:07:46 AM
How much does that Wenger cost?


us Offline J-sews

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #20 on: October 13, 2006, 04:14:29 AM
And do they offer financing with low monthly payments?
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


Offline damota

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #21 on: October 13, 2006, 11:24:24 AM
Do not know US price but UK - Price £499.95 so even with it including tax I guess it would be quite a few dollars  :cry:
Heinnie Haynes has it in and there is a list of the tools that are on it.
http://www.heinnie.com/cgi-bin/heinnie_store/web_store.cgi?page=FRATOTAB/knives.htm&cart_id=
Stats Weight 2 pounds 11oz,   8.75 inches wide
You could have 5-6 true multis for that but you would not have a pioneer or 2 magnifying glass's and I count three sorts of pliers.

Dave


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #22 on: October 13, 2006, 11:30:45 AM
The big Wenger runs at $1200US, but SOSAK members get a discount.  I am not certain what the discount is exactly, but if you are interested I can try to get more info.
Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


Offline damota

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #23 on: October 13, 2006, 02:25:12 PM
I seem to remember a Victronix that was similar to the Wenger Giant many years ago on display in shops, was it just a display item and not available to the public?

Dave


ar Offline mcniac

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #24 on: October 13, 2006, 07:26:32 PM
thinkgeek.com is offering em for U$799 ;)

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/8b97/

Esteban


Offline colubrid

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #25 on: October 15, 2006, 08:31:26 AM
Ouch! I had no idea they were that expensive. I thought J=sews was pulling my leg.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #26 on: October 15, 2006, 02:23:45 PM
I seem to remember a Victronix that was similar to the Wenger Giant many years ago on display in shops, was it just a display item and not available to the public?

Dave

Victorinox has had two such models so far.  The first is the XXLT which was never imported to the US because the build in lighter didn't meet US child safety regulations since there was no lock on the lghter.  It had 72 functions and was extremely large and bulky.  The XXLT was discontinued last year and replaced with the XAVT which doesn't have the lighter, but has over 80 functions.  It's bigger than the XXLT and runs at about $300.  It's still smaller than the Wenger Every Implement Tool pictured above.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline prime77

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #27 on: October 16, 2006, 08:37:08 AM
I so want a XAVT.....Felinevet had one for sale on ebay a couple of months ago but it was to much for me :( :(
vic_XAVT.jpg
* vic_XAVT.jpg (Filesize: 35.76 KB)
"


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #28 on: October 16, 2006, 12:02:42 PM
The nice thing about that one is that it's unlikely you will run into a situation that you don't have the right tool for!

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: One of the great debates of all times
Reply #29 on: October 16, 2006, 01:28:13 PM
How much does the XAVT sell for?
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


 

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