Why the hostility toward self-defense?

[Mr. Whippy]

Nonetheless, an analogy that I find hard to believe anyone can mean seriously. If shooting someone ends violence, the equivalent for fire fighting would be to use explosives to blow away all the oxygen. And yes, if someone was walking around with a hand grenade in case of fire I'd avoid them too 

Again, I suspect you're fairly young (under 21, I suspect).  You still have a bit of concrete reasoning going on.  I don't believe DTH was being that literal.  Rather, his point was, if assuming someone with a SD weapon is equally likely to have aggressive/offensive tendencies, would the same apply to fire extinguishers? (defense of fires v. starting fires--and btw, a very high percentage of serial arsonists are involved/interested in firefighting or EMT services).

[Mr. Whippy]

True that. I think I'll leave this thread alone as I don't agree with most people here anyways and I find it scary how many people would use any weapon against another human being, self defense or not. Cultural differences I guess, it's nice living in a country where not even the police find a need to EDC a weapon

Travel.  You are in need of travel to other cultures.  Really, it's the greatest education.

[Fisting_Chili]

True that. I think I'll leave this thread alone as I don't agree with most people here anyways and I find it scary how many people would use any weapon against another human being, self defense or not. Cultural differences I guess, it's nice living in a country where not even the police find a need to EDC a weapon

That would be nice here too!  USA has 310,149,052 people and is bordered by countries that have 33,311,400 and 106,350,434.   Also having the reputation of being the "land of opportunity" draws many from non-bordering countries.   Norway has 4,768,212 and is bordered a country with only 9,219,637.

[Zack]

True that. I think I'll leave this thread alone as I don't agree with most people here anyways and I find it scary how many people would use any weapon against another human being, self defense or not. Cultural differences I guess, it's nice living in a country where not even the police find a need to EDC a weapon

That would be nice here too!  USA has 310,149,052 people and is bordered by countries that have 33,311,400 and 106,350,434.   Also having the reputation of being the "land of opportunity" draws many from non-bordering countries.   Norway has 4,768,212 and is bordered a country with only 9,219,637.

Thank you Rainman for that....I dropped some toothpicks can you count those right quick...j/k buddy.

[AHB]

True that. I think I'll leave this thread alone as I don't agree with most people here anyways and I find it scary how many people would use any weapon against another human being, self defense or not. Cultural differences I guess, it's nice living in a country where not even the police find a need to EDC a weapon

That would be nice here too!  USA has 310,149,052 people and is bordered by countries that have 33,311,400 and 106,350,434.   Also having the reputation of being the "land of opportunity" draws many from non-bordering countries.   Norway has 4,768,212 and is bordered a country with only 9,219,637.

Thank you Rainman for that....I dropped some toothpicks can you count those right quick...j/k buddy.

[Andreas]

No, I'm not under 21. Don't have to be young to want things to make sense. You can't start fires with fire extinguishers, you can shoot people with self defense guns. I realize you live in the US, so I won't discuss this further, I suggest you spend some time in a country that actually has things like a health care system, a positive economical balance and whole cities where no one is carrying a weapon. You might look at the US a bit differently then.

That would be nice here too!  USA has 310,149,052 people and is bordered by countries that have 33,311,400 and 106,350,434.   Also having the reputation of being the "land of opportunity" draws many from non-bordering countries.   Norway has 4,768,212 and is bordered a country with only 9,219,637.

Yep, as I said, it's nice living in a country where there's no need for such

Although, your geography is off. Norway borders to Sweden, Finland and Russia. Russia has about 15 times more soldiers guarding their side of the border than we have in the entire army. Difference between us and the US is that we don't piss them off

[Fisting_Chili]

True that. I think I'll leave this thread alone as I don't agree with most people here anyways and I find it scary how many people would use any weapon against another human being, self defense or not. Cultural differences I guess, it's nice living in a country where not even the police find a need to EDC a weapon

That would be nice here too!  USA has 310,149,052 people and is bordered by countries that have 33,311,400 and 106,350,434.   Also having the reputation of being the "land of opportunity" draws many from non-bordering countries.   Norway has 4,768,212 and is bordered a country with only 9,219,637.

Thank you Rainman for that....I dropped some toothpicks can you count those right quick...j/k buddy.

I'm a good driver.....

Hell, California alone has 36,961,664 people!

[Mr. Whippy]

No, I'm not under 21. Don't have to be young to want things to make sense. You can't start fires with fire extinguishers, you can shoot people with self defense guns. I realize you live in the US, so I won't discuss this further, I suggest you spend some time in a country that actually has things like a health care system, a positive economical balance and whole cities where no one is carrying a weapon. You might look at the US a bit differently then.

I've done a fair bit of travel through Europe and a bit in South America.  Not to mention travel around the US.  I find the differences to be enlightening, not frightening.  What I view as acceptable, normal and safe in the US is different than Peru, or Italy or Switzerland, or...

It doesn't make one society "better" or "more civilized" just different.  Fear based on inanimate objects has never been a focal point for me, however, and I try to reserve fear for real threats (not imagined)

[cerbera147]

True that. I think I'll leave this thread alone as I don't agree with most people here anyways and I find it scary how many people would use any weapon against another human being, self defense or not. Cultural differences I guess, it's nice living in a country where not even the police find a need to EDC a weapon

   That's a completely different thread. I live in N. Ireland which is part of the UK, you probably know the story. Anyway the cops here carry guns, but on the 'mainland' they do not    I grew up with the fact the cops carry guns and was shocked to discover that they don't elsewhere. If I was a cop with no gun I would feel slighty inadequate coming up against a weapon wielding baddy 

I suggest you spend some time in a country that actually has things like a health care system, a positive economical balance and whole cities where no one is carrying a weapon. You might look at the US a bit differently then.

Not sure trashing the country of a large proportion of our membership is the best way to get your view across 

[Medic82]

True that. I think I'll leave this thread alone as I don't agree with most people here anyways and I find it scary how many people would use any weapon against another human being, self defense or not. Cultural differences I guess, it's nice living in a country where not even the police find a need to EDC a weapon

There is a big cultural differences between America and Norway, no question about it, I would use a weapon against another person(s) if he threatened the life of me and my family and I’m quite sure that most people around the world will also say that. If you where at the receiving end of 7 gang members chopping down your door with an axe would you not defend yourself if they broke through? The story I told on the first page happened in Oslo so the police came quick, but what if this happened in the countryside where the police was 1 hour away?

I have a classmate that was attacked by a gang of neo-Nazis with axes and they almost killed him, was in a coma for 3 months and he almost lost his entire right arm at the shoulder, had he been carrying a gun he could have defended himself. Luckily this is extremely rare in Norway but the crime in Norway is escalating and so is the brutality of the criminals, just look at the Romanian gang that beat up the old folks in their own home as an example.

The police in Norway always have guns in the car so if they need to use one they have easy access really quick.

[Fisting_Chili]

No, I'm not under 21. Don't have to be young to want things to make sense. You can't start fires with fire extinguishers, you can shoot people with self defense guns. I realize you live in the US, so I won't discuss this further, I suggest you spend some time in a country that actually has things like a health care system, a positive economical balance and whole cities where no one is carrying a weapon. You might look at the US a bit differently then.

That would be nice here too!  USA has 310,149,052 people and is bordered by countries that have 33,311,400 and 106,350,434.   Also having the reputation of being the "land of opportunity" draws many from non-bordering countries.   Norway has 4,768,212 and is bordered a country with only 9,219,637.

Yep, as I said, it's nice living in a country where there's no need for such

Although, your geography is off. Norway borders to Sweden, Finland and Russia. Russia has about 25 times more soldiers guarding their side of the border than we have in the entire army. Difference between us and the US is that we don't piss them off

I've spent time in other countries, not enough in my opinion, but more than most I know.  I'd be the last to say USA is perfect, but population has to be factored in.  Especially with so many  more "cultural differences" to deal with.

I apologize for the bad geography, this pic I pulled up wasnt very clear.


Still, Finland has 5,313,399 so added up, Norway, Sweden and Finland still have about 16,000.000 less than California alone.  While Norway does border Russia (I see that now on another pic), trained soldiers are a separate matter.  We were discussing civilian involvement.  I'm curious as to the civilian population along Russia's border with Norway.  

For the USA, the Mexican population and Canadian population is huge on the borders, way moreso for Mexico, so I'd think the situation would be different.

[Fisting_Chili]

True that. I think I'll leave this thread alone as I don't agree with most people here anyways and I find it scary how many people would use any weapon against another human being, self defense or not. Cultural differences I guess, it's nice living in a country where not even the police find a need to EDC a weapon

   That's a completely different thread. I live in N. Ireland which is part of the UK, you probably know the story. Anyway the cops here carry guns, but on the 'mainland' they do not    I grew up with the fact the cops carry guns and was shocked to discover that they don't elsewhere. If I was a cop with no gun I would feel slighty inadequate coming up against a weapon wielding baddy 

I suggest you spend some time in a country that actually has things like a health care system, a positive economical balance and whole cities where no one is carrying a weapon. You might look at the US a bit differently then.

Not sure trashing the country of a large proportion of our membership is the best way to get your view across 

One word....
SPORK!

[Andreas]

Not sure trashing the country of a large proportion of our membership is the best way to get your view across  

Um, I listed 3 undeniable facts... You're the one who called it thrashing   My point was simply that i think it's harder for someone in the US who have a need for such protection to understand my position that it is for me to understand theirs. Remember, I haven't ever said I don't understand why people carry SD gear in countries such as the US, I have just said that I don't like the system that creates such a need, I don't trust people who do carry a fighting knife or gun, and I am glad there's no need for it here.

I'll quote my reply from the second page incase someone didn't get that and mistook my dislike for SD gear and mistrust of armed people as not understanding why people do it

Again, I realize there's different "needs" in some countries, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Child labor is a necessity in some countries in order to provide the family with food. Stop that, and they die. Is the problem the child labor or the system? The system. Does that means I have to like or in any way encourage child labor? No. To me, SD gear represents a system that in my mind is so beyond reason that it seriously makes me nauseated. kind of what you'd think if you saw an advertisement for working clothes for an 8 year old. Again, in some countries child labor is a necessity because of the system, but I think most people would feel a bit sick seeing such an ad.

[Benner]

This ends now please.  

Get back to a direct SD discussion or this gets locked.

[Andreas]

This ends now please.  

Get back to a direct SD discussion or this gets locked.

Rofl, I think you should read the topic title and original post again. I can't seem to find anything even slightly off topic in the whole thread

[Fisting_Chili]

This ends now please.  

Get back to a direct SD discussion or this gets locked.

On the original topic, anyone work w/those telescoping steel batons?  I heard if they have a tendency to bend or snap if they take a hit to the side.

[Medic82]

I am glad there's no need for it here.

If you think that then you are being naive, I am born and raised in Oslo and I have seen my fair share of people that could have the use for SD gear, even a pepper spray would have done the job.

[Benner]

Well then you need to look harder Andreas.  Country trashing came up and that has sweet FA to do with SD.

Take your own advice and leave this thread please.  We know your thoughts here.  And for future referance, don't question mods in public.  Pm me if you have anything to discuss.

[Mr. Whippy]

I am glad there's no need for it here.

If you think that then you are being naive, I am born and raised in Oslo and I have seen my fair share of people that could have the use for SD gear, even a pepper spray would have done the job.

Mebbe Oslo isn't the real Norway? 

[DaveK]

I am glad there's no need for it here.

If you think that then you are being naive, I am born and raised in Oslo and I have seen my fair share of people that could have the use for SD gear, even a pepper spray would have done the job.

Mebbe Oslo isn't the real Norway? 

What, you mean like in Blazing Saddles when they built a replica of Rockridge to fool the bad guys? 

[Medic82]

I am glad there's no need for it here.

If you think that then you are being naive, I am born and raised in Oslo and I have seen my fair share of people that could have the use for SD gear, even a pepper spray would have done the job.

Mebbe Oslo isn't the real Norway?  

I think Oslo is used as New York was in the John Carpenter classic Escape from New York

[Mr. Whippy]

I am glad there's no need for it here.

If you think that then you are being naive, I am born and raised in Oslo and I have seen my fair share of people that could have the use for SD gear, even a pepper spray would have done the job.

Mebbe Oslo isn't the real Norway?  

I think Oslo is used as New York was in the John Carpenter classic Escape from New York

Really?  That's a cool bit of trivia!

[Fisting_Chili]

I am glad there's no need for it here.

If you think that then you are being naive, I am born and raised in Oslo and I have seen my fair share of people that could have the use for SD gear, even a pepper spray would have done the job.

Mebbe Oslo isn't the real Norway?  

I think Oslo is used as New York was in the John Carpenter classic Escape from New York

Maybe like the small town in High Plains Drifter was used...."Welcome to Hell"!    Just kidding...i'd love to visit Oslo if I could!

[cerbera147]

On the original topic, anyone work w/those telescoping steel batons?  I heard if they have a tendency to bend or snap if they take a hit to the side.

I'm guessing those batons are illegal in the UK. I remember there was one in a bar I used to work in; affectionately known as 'The Persuader' 

I've got a similiar one now, also known as my Maglite 2D

[Benner]

They are indeed illegal here.

[Mr. Whippy]

On the original topic, anyone work w/those telescoping steel batons?  I heard if they have a tendency to bend or snap if they take a hit to the side.

I'm guessing those batons are illegal in the UK. I remember there was one in a bar I used to work in; affectionately known as 'The Persuader' 

I've got a similiar one now, also known as my Maglite 2D

Ha!

I have a short handled 8 lb sledge hammer I call "The Persuader". 

[Medic82]

I am glad there's no need for it here.

If you think that then you are being naive, I am born and raised in Oslo and I have seen my fair share of people that could have the use for SD gear, even a pepper spray would have done the job.

Mebbe Oslo isn't the real Norway?  

I think Oslo is used as New York was in the John Carpenter classic Escape from New York

Really?  That's a cool bit of trivia!

I’m not 100% sure but it is a strong theory that I have, sadly when I preach it people will just laugh at me…………..Perhaps we are invaded by aliens like the John Carpenter classic They Live  

[Zack]

I have a white diaper pail I call "the persuader".

[cerbera147]

They are indeed illegal here.

Thought so

[Fisting_Chili]

I am glad there's no need for it here.

If you think that then you are being naive, I am born and raised in Oslo and I have seen my fair share of people that could have the use for SD gear, even a pepper spray would have done the job.

Mebbe Oslo isn't the real Norway?  

I think Oslo is used as New York was in the John Carpenter classic Escape from New York

Really?  That's a cool bit of trivia!

I’m not 100% sure but it is a strong theory that I have, sadly when I preach it people will just laugh at me…………..Perhaps we are invaded by aliens like the John Carpenter classic They Live  

According to IMDB.com, most was filmed in East St. Louis, Illinois.  Oslo was a close second in consideration by all rumors though!