Rucksack buying, which one to get? (thinking of Karrimor Sabre Delta 35)

[Raukodur]

Hi everyone,

Been quite a while since I last posted, been so busy with starting clinical school (now 4th year of medical school, still 2 more to go after this). Anyway, I believe I am in need of a new rucksack, partly because my old one is cheap and old, and partly because I feel like spending a bit (i.e. not too much) of money.

After browsing rucksack brands and models for a few days I have found one I like above the rest, the Karrimor Sabre Delta 35 (full specs can be seen here: http://www.pri.uk.com/ksf/delta35.html).

Unfortunately I cannot find this damned bag anywhere, only one online retailer I have found, selling it at around 86 pounds inclusive of delivery, which is really about double I would want to pay.

So, does anyone know where I may be able to buy this bag, even internationally along as it is cheap enough and then get it shipped to the UK, or anyone know of any similar alternative rucksacks?

[Raukodur]

This is the link to the rucksack in the UK: http://www.johnbullclothing.com/products.asp?ID=2035

This is the only other link I can find to buy this bag, dunno which country it is from, or how much it is for: http://www.shop.inf-wear.dk/default.php?manufacturers_id=62&sessionid=9b580a3ac396c6b762085dc3d586340b

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

This is the link to the rucksack in the UK: http://www.johnbullclothing.com/products.asp?ID=2035

This is the only other link I can find to buy this bag, dunno which country it is from, or how much it is for: http://www.shop.inf-wear.dk/default.php?manufacturers_id=62&sessionid=9b580a3ac396c6b762085dc3d586340b

How about a Bergaus Munro...

http://www.silvermans.co.uk/Silver/docs/topframe.htm

I,ve had one for almost a decade now, and have had a couple of big motorbike accidends while wearing one  but you wouldn't know it to look at it , It's still dead comfortable and is rugged as hell too

Unfortunatly it's only available in green, but it's not too tactical a colour in the flesh

Anyway I can't reccommend it enough mate

PS nice to have you back matey

[Raukodur]

Thanks for the recomendation Micky.

The thing, the reason why I have become so fond of the karrimor sabre delta 35 is because while it says it is military, it has a civilian design, and so would not look out of place in a civilian enviroment, especially since you can get it in black.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Thanks for the recomendation Micky.

The thing, the reason why I have become so fond of the karrimor sabre delta 35 is because while it says it is military, it has a civilian design, and so would not look out of place in a civilian enviroment, especially since you can get it in black.

I know what you mean about the problem with tactical colour's here in the UK, but I think thing's have changed somewhat thanks to the likes of Ray Mears putting a different slant on thing's rather than everyone assuming your some wanabe SAS type, they more likely to assume you've got an unhealthy interest in fungus instead ;D

Btw here the cheapest I could find the daysack you wanted, I've used them in the past and there dead reliable
and they do it in black...

Still going to be dear when you add the postage on though

http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/military/index.asp

hope this help mate

[Raukodur]

Damn, unfortunately exactly rhe same price as the other place 

I can understand why it is expensive, but not that expensive, especially for that size of bag.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Damn, unfortunately exactly rhe same price as the other place 

I can understand why it is expensive, but not that expensive, especially for that size of bag.

Well you could look at it this way, It'll last you at least a decade of use and abuse, it's made of top notch materials, comes with a lifetime warenty, so while it is expensive, maybe you should see it as more of an investment

Just think of all the crap bag's you'll go through in ten years , I was unemployed and very skint when bought my munro, so it represented quite an expensive investment, but near enough 10 years on I very glad I did

[Raukodur]

Normally I would agree with that 100% but there are two problems.

In the last 11 - 12 years I have only used three bags, and I have changed them due to a change from school to college to university rather than the fact they have disintegrated. None of those three bags cost more than 10 pounds. Now that may say something about the level of use these bags see, or the quality of them, probably both, but it means I find it hard to justify buying such an expensive bag, when I know something far cheaper will do the job just fine.

Dammit, why do I have to be so sensible when it comes to spending money 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Normally I would agree with that 100% but there are two problems.

In the last 11 - 12 years I have only used three bags, and I have changed them due to a change from school to college to university rather than the fact they have disintegrated. None of those three bags cost more than 10 pounds. Now that may say something about the level of use these bags see, or the quality of them, probably both, but it means I find it hard to justify buying such an expensive bag, when I know something far cheaper will do the job just fine.

Dammit, why do I have to be so sensible when it comes to spending money 

Well it could be seen as a sign of great maturity or that your boring ;D ;D

Nah only kidding mate, you've got to watch the pennies these day's, as frustrating as that is

[Raukodur]

What do you guys think of this:

http://www.pacsafe.com/www/index.php?_room=3&_action=detail&id=22

Quite an interesting concept, and from the review(s) I have read, it works well.

[Grant Lamontagne]

It looks like an interesting concept, but I have a few questions about it myself.  Wouldn't the eXomesh wear away at either the lining or the cover, or both?  That's the biggest problem I ever had with bags is holes from wear and unless the mesh is somehow laminated in, I can just see it accelerating the process.

I'm also unsure about how one would need that much security in a bag, and how dumb one would have to be to not notice that someone is cutting the bag open and it's getting much lighter as they walk.  It seems to me that if I were walking along and suddenly my pack lost 5 pounds, I'd probably turn around in a hurry.

Lastly, how complex is the locking system, and are you more likely to curse how long it takes to open and close this bag, and therefore not use it as a result?

I think it seems like one of those things that unless you have a specific need for it, it may just be an expensive inconvenience.

Def

[Raukodur]

This is a review I found which may answer a couple of your questions Def: http://www.gizmag.com/go/7554/

Copy and pasted here:

The petty criminal's work is based on minimal risk for maximal reward - snatching an unwatched handbag, slashing a backpack and collecting the spoils as they fall, sizing up which tourist is carrying a laptop or camera they can easily make off with. Simple measures to make life more difficult for thieves can act as an excellent deterrent, and this is where PacSafe has carved its market niche. Starting out with a slashproof metal net to protect backpackers' gear on the road, PacSafe has extended its line to include quick and practical secure carrybags for a range of urban and travel situations. With the latest anti-theft laptop backpack in tow, Gizmag's Loz Blain reports.

PacSafe is a familiar brand to me; I took one of the company's original steel backpack nets with me on a round-the-world jaunt back in 2001 - and used it faithfully for around the first month. After that, I decided that my ancient laptop and stinky socks were hardly the most desirable booty for thieves, and I couldn't be bothered with the effort of fitting the fiddly net around the pack every time we left it somewhere. The result? One stolen laptop in Ireland.

Had I used the PacSafe net faithfully, I'd still have an ancient laptop. Had the PacSafe not been so fiddly to use, I would have used it faithfully. I get the feeling this has been a common story - and it seems PacSafe have been listening, because their new range, from what I've seen, strikes an excellent balance between security and practicality.

I've been using the DaySafe 100 for about a month now, and for the bulk of the time it's just another backpack. It looks good, feels fine, and holds things. It's not until you're out and about that the clever features making it a more secure backpack come to the fore.

For starters, one of the straps unclips so you can attach it onto something solid and prevent walk-by bag snatch attempts. About a five second time investment. Then there's the tamper-proof zips, which similarly clip down to make it very difficult for somebody to unzip the pack while you carry it. Again, about a five second time investment.

Finally, the main event - velcroed inside the DaySafe is a removable tote pouch for valuables such as laptops, camera gear, and the like. PacSafe say it's big enough for a 13" laptop but my 15" Toshiba slotted in with plenty of room to spare. The tote is essentially a steel mesh shell similar to the original PacSafe net, built into a weather-resistant soft nylon pouch and secured with a steel drawstring. Once you've locked your valuables in the tote, the steel drawstring extends so you can wrap it around something solid and lock it back inside the bag. The tote is slash-proof, and nothing short of a set of bolt-cutters will get through the high-tensile steel drawstring. There's plenty of room in the rest of the bag for less valuable items so you're not always opening up the pouch.

Best of all, the time taken to lock your laptop in the DaySafe and secure it to something solid is about 30 seconds, maximum - so you use it. I've even taking to leaving the laptop in the bag and locked to a pipe in the cupboard at home when it's not in use - and leaving the laptop locked up doesn't mean you can't use the backpack; you just remove the eXomesh pouch and use the backpack without it.

The DaySafe 100, retailing at US$130, is one of a line of recent PacSafe releases designed to be secure and easy to use around town and on holiday. The range now includes shoulder bags, fanny packs, purses and handbags, as well as the original PacSafe, the backpack range and some very cool and well-conceived products for motorcyclists.

It's clever gear; stylish, effective, usable and reasonably affordable, especially if you consider how many people are carrying expensive electronics around with them on a daily basis. And while there's little to stop a thief with bolt-cutters, the PacSafe gear certainly does its job in making your valuables significantly harder to get to than the next person's - and in most cases, that's probably enough.

[Anthony]

I EDC a plastic shopping bag...who would steal that? ;D

For a daypack/schoolbag I'd use the same technique...a generic, beat up, cheap looking bag.  I bought a German Army rucksack bag at a surplus store for $20 that I'd trust with traveling.  If someone is cutting through my bag when it's either on my back or unattended, then it's my fault IMO. 

[Raukodur]

I know this is something which it is easy to blame the user about, but there are often situations where having a rucksack or bag which is a bit 'special' can make all the difference.

Let me give a real life example, about 6 years ago I was in Pakistan, I was in a gold jewelry shop with my father, and couple of cousins, buying something for my fiancee. After having conducted our business, we left the shop (I had put the jewelry box inside my shoulder bag, right at the bottom; it had a hard bottom), it was quite a crowded street outside. When we arrived home I noticed that at the top of the bag, at one of the seems, it was ripped, only on closer inspection I noticed that it was too clean to be a rip, and it must have been a cut.

Therefore someone must have been watching that shop, and targetting people who left, since they would probably have something valuable on them. Now luckily they didn't steal anything, but thats not to say they couldn't have, if, e.g. the box had been near the top of the bag, to that side.

Now the concept of the exomesh, where you have this wire 'cage' around the bag is note bad IMO, since it prevents incidents like the one above. And you only need it to save you once for it to have paid for itself 10 times over.

That being said, this doesn't mean I am going to buy that bag, since a) it is only 25l capacity, which is too small for me, and b) I would be spending a lot of money on the safety aspect, when I would hopefully not need it at all in the UK. But again, as I said, it is the one specific time you do need it, and you don't have it that would you really wish you did. Again, another example, when I go to the hospital, they tell us not to leave our bags anywhere public like doctor / surgeon changing rooms because they will have their contents pilfered. So it seems this bag would have its uses...

[Grant Lamontagne]

Well, since I haven't actually tried the backpack myself, it's hard for me to disagree with some of their findings, but I can add in some opinions I have based on the extent of my knowledge of the criminal mind, learned both when studying criminal investigations and various security matters, as well as the time I spent working in jails and on the streets.

The petty criminal's work is based on minimal risk for maximal reward

Absolutely bang on.  I could not argue any more, and if they wanted to work for their money, they'd have gotten honest jobs.

However, when looking at the situation, you are dealing with someone who managed to sneak up behind you, without your knowledge, and is armed with a knife, and has no pressing engagements to go to.  They can follow you for a bit and see if a confrontation can be staged in which they can forcefully take the backpack, laptop, camera etc from you.  In the instance mentioned above, where the person was traveling around the world, it's not likely that the local police force would be terribly upset at another darn college student drifting from place to place searching for a backpack.  Little risk to the bad guy, and while there may be a few more moments of time invested, they still make the score of your backpack and it's contents. 

Best of all, the time taken to lock your laptop in the DaySafe and secure it to something solid is about 30 seconds, maximum - so you use it.

It's fantastic that they have seen the problem and addressed it.  Unfortunately that is 30 seconds that you are bent over, in public and concentrating on your pack and nothing else.  There's obviously a large stationary object handy like a pole or bike rack that you have secured it to, so what's to stop someone from sidling up to you while you aren't looking and give you a significant nudge so you bang your head, then walk off with your bag while you are dazed?

Also remember that someone who sees you carrying a fancy security bag may be more inclined to want it, since you obviously have something interesting in it worth securing, and can increase the chance of someone coming after it.  Don't be fooled into thinking that bad guys don't know one bag from another...

Admittedly, all this is fine, and honestly if someone wants to steal an item from you bad enough they could always find ways.  This is where the issue becomes not one of backpack security, but of personal security.  Of course, if you have the presence of mind to be conscious of personal security, then the extra features of the backpack can be complimentary, but I certainly wouldn't pay a significant amount more for it than any other comparable bags you may be looking at.

That's just my $.02 based on my experience with bad guys and "security" products, and not with this bag, so feel free to take this any way you see fit.

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

My own take on the bag is that, all the security features in the world, are not going to stop some light fingered scum bag from nicking your stuff , and all the while you've got to carry all the extra weight of the security features!

Most quality rucksacks these days are made from texturised nylon/cordura and a lot have got ripstop nylon too boot, so it would be difficult for someone to cut through them anyway

Too my way of thinking walking tall with a good deal of presence of mind, would be a greater deterance than a bag that screams ''steal me I'm loaded with valuble gear'' anyday ;D

As for leaving your bag unattended, if you have no option but to do that then, your stuffed anyway , maybe you could get friendly with one of the staff and ask them to look after your bag

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

So have you narrowed you bag choice yet mate

[Raukodur]

Well, after even more searching I realized I want going to find another bag liek the Karrimor Sabre Delta 35, it has glowing recommendations from military personnel who have (or claim to have) used it for 10+ years, and its specification sounds perfect.

The issue with this bag is the price. Well, I found one shop which very kindly said they were willing to give me a 15% discount due to being a student, so the total price including delivery from there comes to 75 pounds. Still very expensive for a rucksack, but enough incentive for me to order one. Im going for it in black. I reckon I should bite the bullet and spend the cash to get the bag I really like rather than a cheaper (although also probably very good) bag but always wonder what the Karrimor would have been like. And if the reviews of this thing are right, it should hopefully last me for the rest of my life (or until I see a bag I prefer and decide to sell this on ebay).

[Grant Lamontagne]

Make sure to let us know how you like it when it arrives!

You got me curious about it!

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Good man! I'm sure it won't let you down