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Blade steels 4444

No Life Club Posts: 3,994 Improvise.
Blade steels
« on: October 16, 2007, 03:23:58 AM »
I've been looking to get a Spyderco recently, and noticed that sometimes the same knife design is available in two steels. 

I'm personally happy with a nicely manufactured 440 stainless (like a SAK blade), but since I have an option I'd like to know what the strenghts and weaknesses are of say, S30v, 154cm, Aus-8, etc...the "basic" available steels.

I'm looking for a good balance between sharpness and durability.

[
Head Turd Polisher Administrator Just Bananas Posts: 63,193 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 03:27:12 AM »
Yup, they have that.  They also have more difficulty in sharpening, more complex heat treats and may not be as stain resistant.  A harder steel is harder to sharpen, period.  Which means that it is more wear and tear on machines that grind and sharpen a hundred blades a day, and it takes more time.

They are "better" in the same way a Porsche is better than my Sunfire- it's prettier, classier, better built, more comfortable etc but you'll get stuck in the same traffic as I do, stopped at the same red lights as I am and listen to the same radio that I do, but fortunately with much higher monthly payments!

Def

Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,975 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2007, 11:23:07 AM »
I've been looking to get a Spyderco recently, and noticed that sometimes the same knife design is available in two steels. 

I'm personally happy with a nicely manufactured 440 stainless (like a SAK blade), but since I have an option I'd like to know what the strenghts and weaknesses are of say, S30v, 154cm, Aus-8, etc...the "basic" available steels.

I'm looking for a good balance between sharpness and durability.
Spyderco do some information regarding steels on there site which is quite interesting...

http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/

Out of the list of steels you got I'd say...

S30v hold a very good edge, but is hard to sharpen compared to 440c and will chip rather than roll its edge, plus while it won't rust easily it will stain.

Aus 8 is a really good steel that I've used for years, easy to sharpen, holds an edge better than 440c, the edge will roll rather than chip, and has got excellent stain resistance qualities :) :)

154cm, I haven't got any direct experience with, but from all the accounts I've read, it's impossible to sharpen unless you've got ceramic or diamond stones, but on the flip side it holds it edge better than loads of knives :)

on balance i'd go for either 440c or Aus8 :) :)

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
No Life Club Posts: 3,994 Improvise.
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 06:40:09 PM »
Thanks for the info micky...although I ended up getting VG-10 :grin:

I finally took the plunge and got my first quality folder from edcdepot.com; a waved Delica.  I coulden't think of anything I'd need the extra inch of the Endura for that a 3"+ Delica can't cut.  There are a few vids on youtube of people demonstrating the wave feature and that's probably what sold me...although I should wear some chainmail gloves the first few days of trying this feature out :-X

Any info on VG-10?  I'm guessing it's comparable to 440 and Aus-8 judging by the price.

I also ordered a small Opinel, I heard those are really nice knives.

Hopefully I'll get both by the end of the week.

[
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,975 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 06:53:54 PM »
Thanks for the info micky...although I ended up getting VG-10 :grin:

I finally took the plunge and got my first quality folder from edcdepot.com; a waved Delica.  I coulden't think of anything I'd need the extra inch of the Endura for that a 3"+ Delica can't cut.  There are a few vids on youtube of people demonstrating the wave feature and that's probably what sold me...although I should wear some chainmail gloves the first few days of trying this feature out :-X

Any info on VG-10?  I'm guessing it's comparable to 440 and Aus-8 judging by the price.

I also ordered a small Opinel, I heard those are really nice knives.

Hopefully I'll get both by the end of the week.
VG 10 is a BLOODY good steel and it's a swedish laminated steel :) I've used it in my falkniven F1 fixed blade, and it's damn fine steel :) :) I cant remember what the steel is at the core but the sides are proberly heat treated 420.

Either way you've got yourself a very fine knife there :) :)

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,975 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2007, 06:57:18 PM »
Here's a link for anyone with an interest in knife steel :) ...

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html#S_VG10

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
No Life Club Posts: 1,957 Marsh-wiggle
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2007, 12:03:26 AM »
I have the D4 (non waved) in VG-10 and really like it. I don't put my knives through a rough life, so I can't really say much from a hard-use standpoint, but from everything I read, VG-10 sounds like about the best comprimise out there, and seems to be about the "best" steel that almost everyone likes and agrees is still practical. It hold a good edge and is very stain resistant (I think Spyderco uses it in some kitchen knives). S30V and ZDP189 are the two big ones that some (but not all) would claim as "better", but they get tough to sharpen and can be brittle and also stain more quickly IIRC. All that to say if I had my pick of any steel I'd usually go with VG-10, with ATS34/154CM as my next choice.
I've certainly not got anything against softer steels (420 etc), in fact I like them and the ease in resharpening makes up for a lot of the loss in edge-holding IMO, especially if its a well done blade.
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,975 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2007, 10:42:42 AM »

I've certainly not got anything against softer steels (420 etc), in fact I like them and the ease in resharpening makes up for a lot of the loss in edge-holding IMO, especially if its a well done blade.
Exactly mate, softer steels are fine as long as there heat treated properly :)

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,097 Aggressive in defence
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2007, 10:11:12 PM »
I'm not a steel snob but heres what little I know . I think its right but not 100% . Aus-8 is a good alround steel thats similar but slightly better then 440A and B  . 154cm is the American Version of Japanese ATS-34 and both are regarded as one of the best knife steels , you do need to know what your doing whith sharpening though .VG10 is a very good steel that I have enjoyed using and found it sharpened quite easily . Just about all VG10 is made in Japan . S30V is a very high end steel with superb edge retention . It is prone to micro chipping on the edge but I have never experienced it . A real b*gger to sharpen but worth spending the extra time on the stone, Chris Reeves uses it alot .

Dunc
No Life Club Posts: 1,346 Right Wing Psychopath!
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2007, 12:12:02 AM »
I like all of the "wondersteels."  420 and 440 just dont last as long in my opinion.  154cm and ats34 are both great steels.  I have a lot of experience with them and I can say that they are hard to sharpen but well worth the effort.
No Life Club Posts: 4,230 Plants should be smoked, not eaten.
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2007, 06:34:29 PM »
I don't know a whole lot about different steels but I do have a Spyderco Navigator 2 that has VG-10 steel and it has stayed sharp MUCH longer than any of my other knives, most of which I'm assuming are 420 or 440 stuff.

http://ducksrandomthoughts.blogspot.com - or follow me on Twitter- @ducksthoughts

It's hard to say nipple without smirking.
Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,097 Aggressive in defence
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2007, 06:39:32 PM »
I don't know a whole lot about different steels but I do have a Spyderco Navigator 2 that has VG-10 steel and it has stayed sharp MUCH longer than any of my other knives, most of which I'm assuming are 420 or 440 stuff.

 There is alot to be said of VG-10 and something I'd like to know more about in 2008


Dunc
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,975 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2007, 06:44:13 PM »
Getting a Falkie F1 would be a good way to find out :)

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
No Life Club Posts: 1,064
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2008, 02:35:03 AM »
Or a Tomcat!


Actually, SOG is converting many of their knives from AUS-8 to VG-10 (at no extra cost).


I love VG-10, but AUS-8 is acceptable.

[
Hero Member Posts: 777 J-sews Fan Club-- Member #0001
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2008, 04:40:52 AM »
Getting a Falkie F1 would be a good way to find out :)

I've been thinking about getting an F1 lately, but I've heard the new models are coming out this year, so I may wait.

Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,975 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2008, 11:10:47 AM »
Getting a Falkie F1 would be a good way to find out :)

I've been thinking about getting an F1 lately, but I've heard the new models are coming out this year, so I may wait.


Where did you hear that ???, have you got a link mate :)

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
Sr. Member Posts: 413 I do Exist!!!!
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2008, 05:43:26 PM »
Getting a Falkie F1 would be a good way to find out :)

I've been thinking about getting an F1 lately, but I've heard the new models are coming out this year, so I may wait.


Where did you hear that ???, have you got a link mate :)

I think that Peter mentioned that in the Fällkniven forum at knife forums, but he didn't mention any detail about what will be tha changes (new steels, maybe 3G in the F1), or what new models will be for this year.

Carlos

(
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,975 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: Blade steels
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2008, 05:49:08 PM »
Getting a Falkie F1 would be a good way to find out :)

I've been thinking about getting an F1 lately, but I've heard the new models are coming out this year, so I may wait.


Where did you hear that ???, have you got a link mate :)

I think that Peter mentioned that in the Fällkniven forum at knife forums, but he didn't mention any detail about what will be tha changes (new steels, maybe 3G in the F1), or what new models will be for this year.

Carlos
Hmm, i'm not sure I like the idea of 3G, I mean it's bound to drive the price up :-\

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!

 

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