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420hc steel? 16886

Jr. Member Posts: 65
420hc steel?
« on: January 30, 2011, 07:55:43 AM »
i really want the MUT its cool as hell, but i looked around and everyone is saying that the s30v on the tti or the 154cm on the AL and many others are much better

i dont really understand the difference between steels, can anyone tell me what is the differance or at least if the 420hc is worth it or not

most probably im not going to carry a knife with my multitool since its illegal ;1  i only own a SAK so i dont have expertice with any steel except victorinox's and by the way its not that bad , not that good but not THAT bad

thanks xD
Hero Member Posts: 800
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2011, 08:21:33 AM »
I have a ton of knives and tools.  I'm a big Leatherman fan.  They don't scrimp on quality.  The Charge series does have better blades.  That being said, they put their regular 420hc on the MUT becuase it is very easy to sharpen in the field.  There is no problem or lack of quality there. 
Hero Member Posts: 601
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2011, 08:44:01 AM »
Knife steels are made of different formulas. The Basic idea is that the two main factors in knife steel is rust resistance and edge holding ability. The higher the carbon content, the longer it will hold a sharp edge. Also, it becomes harder to sharpen and becomes more prone to rust. It is ideal to have a blade that holds a better edge and has good resistance to rust. 420hc has great resistance to rust but the carbon content is lower, I think around 70-75. the advantage is that it is very strong, rust resistant, and easy to sharpen. 154cm has a higher carbon content, around 100, it holds an edge longer than 420 but may be a little harder to sharpen and may also be a little more prone to rust. s30v has a higher carbon content, ect...    If you go to A.G.Russell.com, I believe they have a knife steel chart you can look at and get an idea of how it works.  If you use your knife for long periods of time, you should get a tool with better steel as you wont have to sharpen it as often but if you dont use the knife except for small chores, 420 is ok but you will have to sharpen it more often.  :tu:
No Life Club Posts: 2,549
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2011, 09:45:22 AM »
i really want the MUT its cool as hell, but i looked around and everyone is saying that the s30v on the tti or the 154cm on the AL and many others are much better

i dont really understand the difference between steels, can anyone tell me what is the differance or at least if the 420hc is worth it or not

most probably im not going to carry a knife with my multitool since its illegal ;1  i only own a SAK so i dont have expertice with any steel except victorinox's and by the way its not that bad , not that good but not THAT bad

thanks xD

That's because "everybody" is more in to having tools with the latest and greatest and don't consider what the tools are designed to do.
 
When you look at steel, one of the biggest trade offs is edge retention (how long it will stay sharp) compared to how easy to sharpen it is.  Soldiers in the field don't need their blades to stay super sharp for long cutting tasks - they aren't skinning deer in the field.  They do need to be able to sharpen their knives in the field with little training and a basic whetstone.

The 420HC steel used in the MUT will *not* hold an edge as long as the 154CM or S30V steels used in the various Charge series multitools, but 420HC is miles and away easier to sharpen.
Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,998 Aggressive in defence
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2011, 10:12:23 AM »
Theres is no point in going for 154CM of S30V   if your not competent at sharpening .I've known people to buy these " better super steels " only to start a thread asking for help because they can't get an edge on it .

I'm not saying 420hc is better , far from it but would wouldn't buy a racing car to go to the shops in .
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,555

Zed gb

******** *
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2011, 10:28:13 AM »
Theres is no point in going for 154CM of S30V   if your not competent at sharpening .I've known people to buy these " better super steels " only to start a thread asking for help because they can't get an edge on it .

I'm not saying 420hc is better , far from it but would wouldn't buy a racing car to go to the shops in .

i agree as im not the best at sharpening blades but i always get a good edge on 440 etc, i just put a very sharp edge on a 8cr13mov byrd blade and it took me about 2mins to do it , ive had better materials only to struggle to get a sharp edge,  :(
Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,998 Aggressive in defence
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2011, 12:01:05 PM »
Theres is no point in going for 154CM of S30V   if your not competent at sharpening .I've known people to buy these " better super steels " only to start a thread asking for help because they can't get an edge on it .

I'm not saying 420hc is better , far from it but would wouldn't buy a racing car to go to the shops in .

i agree as im not the best at sharpening blades but i always get a good edge on 440 etc, i just put a very sharp edge on a 8cr13mov byrd blade and it took me about 2mins to do it , ive had better materials only to struggle to get a sharp edge,  :(

Paul a good way to practice sharpening is to get a cheap knife and learn using that , if you mess it up it doesn't matter . Years ago I messed up a brand new 154CM blade just through inexperience . I don't have a problem now but I do make sure I keep on top of them so they are shaving sharp all the time .
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,555

Zed gb

******** *
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2011, 02:06:15 PM »
Theres is no point in going for 154CM of S30V   if your not competent at sharpening .I've known people to buy these " better super steels " only to start a thread asking for help because they can't get an edge on it .

I'm not saying 420hc is better , far from it but would wouldn't buy a racing car to go to the shops in .

i agree as im not the best at sharpening blades but i always get a good edge on 440 etc, i just put a very sharp edge on a 8cr13mov byrd blade and it took me about 2mins to do it , ive had better materials only to struggle to get a sharp edge,  :(

Paul a good way to practice sharpening is to get a cheap knife and learn using that , if you mess it up it doesn't matter . Years ago I messed up a brand new 154CM blade just through inexperience . I don't have a problem now but I do make sure I keep on top of them so they are shaving sharp all the time .

yeah i need more practice dunc, i really need someone just to show me how to do it, although my blades are sharp enough for what i use them for but i would like a bit sharper  :D  :tu:
No Life Club Posts: 2,549
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2011, 07:25:26 PM »
Theres is no point in going for 154CM of S30V   if your not competent at sharpening .I've known people to buy these " better super steels " only to start a thread asking for help because they can't get an edge on it .

I'm not saying 420hc is better , far from it but would wouldn't buy a racing car to go to the shops in .

And that's why I wish more companies would use VG-10.  Great edge retention and easy to sharpen.  Probably a little too expensive to put in MTs en masse though.
Hero Member Posts: 633 I'm actually Canadian
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2011, 03:37:33 AM »
Honestly, 420HC is not bad at all for high-value blades that are meant for EDC. Good enough edge retention, easy enough to work with, and the point is that its not prohibitively expensive. As Dunc said, sometimes you want a Ferrari, sometimes you want a Toyota.
Hero Member Posts: 511 The best way to predict the future is to create it
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2011, 04:06:48 AM »
Come on guys you are going about this all wrong.

He needs to get BOTH!  :rofl: :rofl:

That being said, 420HC is fully adequate as a MT knife steel. However if you do not need a MUT for its weapons maintenance purpose, I would recommend getting a different MT. Since you said that you are not allowed to carry a knife I would assume that guns are out of the question.
The MUT is just a massive tool, and only comes with a MOLLE sheath. For most purposes a Wave or Charge would probably be a better tool.

However edge retention is a bit more complicated then the others implied, and it is a combination of several different components of steel composition. Better steels won't necesarily get sharper (not entirely accurate), and 420HC is mid-grade stainless steel. 420HC was at one point a much higher rated (subjective) steel than it is now, following the introduction of the new generation of "premium" high-end steels.

(insert witty quote)
Hero Member Posts: 633 I'm actually Canadian
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2011, 04:09:40 AM »
Btw, don't know if the OP realizes this, but if separate knives are illegal than the knife on the multitool is still illegal... In that case I would suggest looking at the Knifeless Fuse. I want one so I don't have to be tool-less at school.
No Life Club Posts: 1,615 Colors!
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2011, 04:22:30 AM »
Btw, don't know if the OP realizes this, but if separate knives are illegal than the knife on the multitool is still illegal... In that case I would suggest looking at the Knifeless Fuse. I want one so I don't have to be tool-less at school.

Other knifeless options are custom 58mm SAKs, a slightly modified Octane, or various SOG/Paladin tools. Gerber Shard is good too.
No Life Club Posts: 3,572
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2011, 03:46:40 PM »
420HC as rolled out by Leatherman is in no way a bad steel , not the greatest edge holder , but adequate for most real world tasks . A snap to sharpen .

Chris
Full Member Posts: 148
Re: 420hc steel?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2011, 10:44:01 AM »
I've found Leatherman's implementation of 420HC to be fantastic. A Leatherman c301 knife has turned out to be a somewhat unlikely common EDC knife for me. One reason is the 420HC blade, which is tough and damn easy to maintain.

154CM and s30V are boutique steels capable of higher hardness. That being said, it's not clear that they are always exploited in a way to showcase their advantages, which I think shows a bit of cynicism on the part of knife companies and gullibility on the part of knife nuts seeking steel with exotic designations. For the average user, there will probably be no noticeable difference in performance. In theory, high end steels should hold an edge longer, while steels like 420HC should exhibit greater toughness.

 

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