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UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC 6768

Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« on: October 30, 2007, 12:16:02 PM »
For those of us lucky enough to live under the Queen's iron rule ;), we now have to give some serious thought to the legality of the Multi's or Sak's that we carry for EDC ::)

As I understand it the basic British law is that a knife must have a blade of 76mm/3 inches and must be unable to lock, to be legal edc, obviously any and all knives can be considered illegal in the wrong places ie the pub, school or the courts.

So the point of this thread is to make a list of all the legal Multi/Sak out there that are street legal for sensible carriage :)

First up, we at Multitool.Org are not responsible for the information, and it's up to the user to check local and applicable laws for themselves.

Ok I'll go first...

All Victorinox's between 58mm and 93mm models fit in to the legal edc catagory, plus have the priceless advantage of not neccessarily being viewed as a knife or weapon of any kind.

All the 65mm Wengers are legal, most of the 85mm are as well, but be careful as quite a few models have locking main blades so consequently would fall foul of the law in certain situation's/areas, and again like the Victorinox's they have a positive image around non knife people :)

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No Life Club Posts: 4,532 Hello...is this thing on?
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2007, 12:31:31 PM »
Paladin
PT510

Gerber
Multiplier (the earlier ones do not have a lock)
Clutch
Shortcut

Leatherman
Kick
Knifeless Kick
PST I and II
Micra
Juice series (all i think, unless they made one with a lock?)
Minitool

Thats a few off the top of my head probably some more, so get listing people!

Life is like a sandwich...the older it gets the crustier it becomes!
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2007, 12:34:51 PM »
Thanks mate :)

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No Life Club Posts: 3,592 Supreme Planetary Overlord trainee
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2007, 03:49:37 PM »
 Are these laws uniformly in effect throughout the UK? I'm curious about what laws  govern knives and multi-tools in areas that have some degree of autonomy or self-rule...Scotland,Wales,Northern Ireland.Don't the Isle of Man,and the Channel Islands have some degree of autonomy?

I
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2007, 04:32:21 PM »
Are these laws uniformly in effect throughout the UK? I'm curious about what laws  govern knives and multi-tools in areas that have some degree of autonomy or self-rule...Scotland,Wales,Northern Ireland.Don't the Isle of Man,and the Channel Islands have some degree of autonomy?
They do have some autonomy concerning things like speed limit's and traffic regulations, and probably a host of rare and obscure law,s and bylaws too, but I think where knives are concerned there all broadly similar, except in scotland, which is a little bit more hard lined.

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No Life Club Posts: 1,765
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2007, 04:35:53 PM »
Don't know about anything other than Scots law which states that
Offensive weapons are anything which is made ,intended ,or adapted which covers anyhting from a machette strapped to your back or a belt swung about your head
exceptions are LAWFUL AUTHORITY or REASONABLE EXCUSE the first is police or armed services etc
the second is a big grey area usually work or religion but one young lady who was caught with a Samurai sword said she used it for trimming her Bonzai trees
Bladed or sharply pointed articles are self explanitory the only exceptions are non locking blades of 3 inches or under again lawful authority or reasonable excuse comes into play
Reasonable excuse may apply at 12-00 but not at 01-00 hrs
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2007, 04:38:38 PM »
Don't know about anything other than Scots law which states that
Offensive weapons are anything which is made ,intended ,or adapted which covers anyhting from a machette strapped to your back or a belt swung about your head
exceptions are LAWFUL AUTHORITY or REASONABLE EXCUSE the first is police or armed services etc
the second is a big grey area usually work or religion but one young lady who was caught with a Samurai sword said she used it for trimming her Bonzai trees
Bladed or sharply pointed articles are self explanitory the only exceptions are non locking blades of 3 inches or under again lawful authority or reasonable excuse comes into play
Reasonable excuse may apply at 12-00 but not at 01-00 hrs
You covered a lot of ground with that post, thanks :)

As for the samurai girl, why the hell didn't I think of that excuse :D

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
Global Tuffy Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 28,078 Just Awesome! And a Slayer of Polar Bear!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2007, 06:16:10 PM »
An obvious one I know, but the Frog tool.

There is also a Leatherman knifeless Fuse

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Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2007, 06:20:21 PM »
An obvious one I know, but the Frog tool.

There is also a Leatherman knifeless Fuse
Good point mate, I'd forgotten the Frog ::)

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
Sr. Member Posts: 422
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2007, 06:24:19 PM »
As far as knives go, it is the under 3" length and slip lock that governs. As you say most SAKs but also most old style pocket knives come within the law. 2 knives that come within the law are the CRKT Edgie and the Spyderco UK penknife that was specially designed for sale (and use) in the UK.
Anything can be carried with good reason. Just think if you really have a good reason, and remember a good reason walking between A and B may not be a good reason if you pop into a cafe for a coffee on the way and popping into the pub on the way back would to be honest be bloody stupid with any knife.

Dave
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 06:32:02 PM by damota »
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2007, 06:31:48 PM »
I was always wary of the Spydie UKPK, everyone I've looked at and played with I've loved, but it's just to damn tactical looking, to not attract attention :(

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
Sr. Member Posts: 422
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2007, 07:46:44 PM »
I was always wary of the Spydie UKPK, everyone I've looked at and played with I've loved, but it's just to damn tactical looking, to not attract attention :(

If you in any way fancy one, get it. If anything proves why many US knife makers are getting Chinese steel for their blades you just have to look at the cost of that knife since it came out. It now sells for £69.99 and I am certain I paid about £50 for mine when it first came out. I have been told every time they are reordered they have gone up. Mind they are still worth it.
I think of mine as the best quality knife we are allowed. Light, good blade depth as well as being legal length and keeps it's edge really well. Also easily washed for use as a clean knife for food and such.

Dave



Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2007, 10:41:38 PM »
I was always wary of the Spydie UKPK, everyone I've looked at and played with I've loved, but it's just to damn tactical looking, to not attract attention :(

If you in any way fancy one, get it. If anything proves why many US knife makers are getting Chinese steel for their blades you just have to look at the cost of that knife since it came out. It now sells for £69.99 and I am certain I paid about £50 for mine when it first came out. I have been told every time they are reordered they have gone up. Mind they are still worth it.
I think of mine as the best quality knife we are allowed. Light, good blade depth as well as being legal length and keeps it's edge really well. Also easily washed for use as a clean knife for food and such.

Dave

The new Urban promises to be good ;)

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
Hero Member Posts: 967
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2007, 11:39:47 PM »
Some more tools to add to the OK list...

The Swiss Tech key and microtechnician
SOG's Crossgrip and Crosscut
SOG Paratool (no locking blades)


(I'll try and think of some more)  :)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 11:50:40 PM by cryptrick »

[
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2007, 10:12:43 AM »
Some more tools to add to the OK list...

The Swiss Tech key and microtechnician
SOG's Crossgrip and Crosscut
SOG Paratool (no locking blades)


(I'll try and think of some more)  :)
Thanks fella :)

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
No Life Club Posts: 4,532 Hello...is this thing on?
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2007, 01:32:45 PM »
The Swiss Tech key

Technically i think that would count as a fixed blade (even if it is only 1" or so long!) so you'd have to have a good reason to carry it....not sure how it would be interpreted by an officer of the law though.

Life is like a sandwich...the older it gets the crustier it becomes!
No Life Club Posts: 1,346 Right Wing Psychopath!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2007, 05:40:08 PM »
That is almost a philosophical discussion.  The blade is technically fixed.  However, one must fold away the part that encloses the blade.  It must be folded to operate.  No doubt that some lawyer would have a field day with that one.
Hero Member Posts: 967
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2007, 06:09:53 PM »
Sorry for causing some confusion, better leave it off the list for now then.

Anyway, a couple more that are OK...

Leatherman Vista
Leatherman Hybrid

(OK they're not necessarily EDC but could be added to the list)



[
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2007, 09:22:36 PM »
Nowt wrong with adding them to the list mate :cheers:

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Hero Member Posts: 967
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2007, 09:51:24 PM »
Would the SOG Toolclip classify, the blade doesn't lock, but is it below 3" ?

[
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2007, 10:01:23 PM »
Would the SOG Toolclip classify, the blade doesn't lock, but is it below 3" ?
I'm fairly certain it does mate :)

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Global Tuffy Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 28,078 Just Awesome! And a Slayer of Polar Bear!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2008, 02:32:04 PM »
I have just stumbled across this thread again and thought I'd give it a bump to see if anyone had any more ideas?

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Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2008, 02:36:11 PM »
There are still a lot of older tool's out there that would still be legal edc, like your multiplier, then there are still the original PST's and Sideclips too, plus I'm sure many more :)

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Hero Member Posts: 536
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2008, 02:44:17 PM »
I'm in the US and not the UK so it's not as bad but is getting there.  My new Wenger S557 has a locking blade so could bring up issues in some places.  Too bad, the design is for safety, not as a weapon.  Hard to get reactionary freakout types to grasp that.  In the practical situation of getting stopped by a cop or "bobbie" for you Brits  :D the fortunate thing is a SAK or multi in general is going to look less threatening.  And perception has more to do with it than the specific laws that are often ambigious anyway. 
Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2008, 02:47:03 PM »
There is a very definate case for knives that are ''percieved'' as friendly, you would almost certainly get away with a sak assuming your not doing something silly with it, but there's always the chance you meet a copper having a bad day or needs to fill his quoter ::), or worse a special constable >:(

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!
Global Tuffy Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 28,078 Just Awesome! And a Slayer of Polar Bear!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2008, 02:53:58 PM »
Just thought I'd write a list of the multitools tools we have had so far (I haven't included SAK's and a couple of other's I have thought of);

Paladin PT 510,
Early Gerber Multipliers,
Gerber Clutch,
Gerber Shortcut,
Gerber Solstice,
Leatherman Kick,
Leatherman Knifeless Kick,
Leatherman knifeless Fuse,
Leatherman PST 1 & 2,
Leatherman Micra,
Leatherman Juice series,
Leatherman Mini,
Leatherman Vista,
Leatherman Hybrid,
Leatherman Sideclip,
Frog tool,
Frosch tool,
SOG Crosscut,
SOG Crossgrip,
SOG Paratool (not sure if all of them?),
SOG Toolclip,
SOG Mini toolclip.




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Hero Member Posts: 536
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2008, 02:55:47 PM »
There is a very definate case for knives that are ''percieved'' as friendly, you would almost certainly get away with a sak assuming your not doing something silly with it, but there's always the chance you meet a copper having a bad day or needs to fill his quoter ::), or worse a special constable >:(

You got it.  The problem with "what is legal" with knife laws gets real fuzzy.  Knife laws vary dramatically from one place to the other and the typical cop or school official is not going to appreciate the subtle nuances.  You might win in court but the cost is high.  At the level of the typical pocket knife/SAK/multi-tool perception is going to play just as important a part.  If the knife blade is buried with a bunch of other neat gizmos it helps the "threatening factor".  The lower the threshold of that threatening factor the less likely you will be on radar from a cop, school official etc.  

I have a nice Buck lockblade.  It is under the normal legal length and is really a nice knife.  The steel is high quality.  Since it is a knife blade by itself to the wrong person it could just look bad.  

So if you are going to list what is legal you also have to take that subjective "threatening factor" into account.
Head Turd Polisher Administrator Just Bananas Posts: 61,451 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2008, 02:57:45 PM »
Quote
I'm in the US and not the UK so it's not as bad but is getting there.

Not to get political, but the problem in the US isn't the laws, it's the fact that they change from state to state.  What's legal in one state may not be legal in the next, and even if it's legal in both states, there may be a federal law broken by taking it over state law, since the Feds regulate interstate transportation.

While I could never support increased legislation on anything, I'd have to support some kind of bill that would make things like knives even across the board like it is in most other countries.  Of course if such a thing was ever developed, it would probably be something silly and unenforceable like the UK's banning of pointy kitchen knives.   ::)

Def

Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.
Global Tuffy Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 28,078 Just Awesome! And a Slayer of Polar Bear!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2008, 02:59:20 PM »
 
I have a nice Buck lockblade.  It is under the normal legal length and is really a nice knife.  The steel is high quality.  Since it is a knife blade by itself to the wrong person it could just look bad.  

So if you are going to list what is legal you also have to take that subjective "threatening factor" into account.

I like them as well, but sadly the lock again makes it illegal to EDC and like you say "looks" to the sheeple as a weapon and so could land you in a lot of trouble. :(

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Chief of the Absolutely No Life Club! Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 42,959 Why haven't you got a Farmer yet!
Re: UK Legal Multi's and Saks for EDC
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2008, 03:00:10 PM »
Quote
  Of course if such a thing was ever developed, it would probably be something silly and unenforceable like the UK's banning of pointy kitchen knives.   ::)

Def
That has been sugested more than once >:(

Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!

 

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