Pics of the new Emerson MT

[hawkchucker]

Figured I show ya what came up last night and amazed no one posted them yet.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2011/06/10/sneak-peek-at-emersons-new-ek1-multitool/

[AHB]

turnsouth beat you to it, but thanks.. 

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,28581.msg494961.html#msg494961 

[nelly1974]

can't decide whether i like it or not

[Gadget Guy]

Me like! Me like!!   

[Sparky415]

Me like! Me like!!   

+1 Just look at those pliers   

[Styerman]

I can see the pliers being very usefull , never fully understood the "Needlenose" fetish .

Chris

[hawkchucker]

Im Just bummed no G10

[BIG-TARGET]

Pretty   But does it work?

[Styerman]

Hawk. , the one in the photo is an aluminium mock up , the prodo will have G10 , and a chisel ground Tanto blade .

Chris

[Paperclip]

I don't know why they left the handles exposed like that. Seems to be not that comfortable to grip.

[Ombudsman]

I don't think they are exposed, they look like the Multitasker's handles and they are very comfortable. Specially with G10 ! 

[J-sews]

This is the prototype we played around with at Mr. Whippy's North American Meet-up: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,28050.0.html

No photographs of it were allowed yet at that time, but we definitely put the tool to the test. Hopefully some of the feedback we were able to give will work its way into the final design.

[J-sews]

The latest computer rendering:





Lots of discussion going on right now about what the final blade/tool selection will be. Getting the protypes made, tested, and perfected will take time. The hope is to have everything dialed in by the time Shot Show 2012 arrives in January.

[Styerman]

I think Shane has raised the bar , cast pliers multi's will become obsolete ( not a bad thing IMVHO ) .

Chris

[turnsouth]

I think Shane has raised the bar , cast pliers multi's will become obsolete ( not a bad thing IMVHO ) .

Chris

I don't know. I mean billet work is exceptional for exacting tolerances, but really it's just adding an extra step in the production process.

Look at it this way, both processes start out with the steel material. In the first process, the material is cast into a billet, and then sent for cutting into the desired shape, after which it is finished/polished. In the other process the material is cast directly into the desired shape, and then finished/polished. From a molecular point of view, the same internal strength can be obtained in either process, it's just a matter of desired outcome.

Other than aesthetics, I can't really see any advantage, especially for plier heads.

[Styerman]

I would think the heads should be less prone to breakage , and the cutters would be a lot more efficient .

D2 is often used in machine knives and shears . It should be possible to have a multi that would

approximate the performance of real pliers .

Chris

[turnsouth]

What would make really durable plier heads is drop forging, and three step heat treating:

[J-sews]

I do agree that a drop-forged plier head would be strong. However, the high initial cost of the forging dies makes it unlikely we'll ever see a multitool made using this method.


As regards Cast -versus- Cut from Billet, if all else is done correctly (grade of steel, heat treat, etc) then the billet pliers should be inherently stronger. This is because the grain structure of the raw barstock was rolled and formed at the steel mill, making it stronger. Whereas the grain structure of a casting is random and crystal-like, which makes it more brittle.

[turnsouth]

I do agree that a drop-forged plier head would be strong. However, the high initial cost of the forging dies makes it unlikely we'll ever see a multitool made using this method.

It could be done economically, after all the pliers in the video sell for less than $20.00...

As regards Cast -versus- Cut from Billet, if all else is done correctly (grade of steel, heat treat, etc) then the billet pliers should be inherently stronger. This is because the grain structure of the raw barstock was rolled and formed at the steel mill, making it stronger. Whereas the grain structure of a casting is random and crystal-like, which makes it more brittle.

This depends on on how much a manufacturer wants to spend in production, there's pressure casting, as well as powder metallurgy (which is becoming a more cost viable as technology advances).

It all comes down to money, if billet work increases the cost to profit ratio, then it will be the common method of the future. Leatherman already is using laser forming with their harder steel blades.

But then again Leatherman also used forged heads in their pruners (just aluminum, but forged nonetheless)

[Grant Lamontagne]

Spoken like a true machinist Bob!

 

Def

[AimlessWanderer]

For what it's worth, here's my take ...

As J-sews said, billet stock will be mechanically superior to castings (generally) as the material has already been hot worked to refine the grain.
However the additional materials push the costs up, followed by the elevated costs of taking all that surplus material away again.
Closed die forging processes could be made economical providing the same plier heads are used in exceptionally high quantities. The factor which leaves it
vulnerable is R&D & qty. To modify the plier design at any point or have it used on anything other than the most poplular models could be devestating. If we
bring in standard pliers as a comparison, the patterns used often remain standard for decades. The risks associated with a multitool manufacturer
getting it that right first time must be a daunting prospect. As for the higher tech casting processes, I am still sceptical in higher tensile applications.
I have been involved to an extent in centrifugal casting operations, where with the correct heat treatment the materials can emulate the mechanical
properties of wrought material and are often used in piping applications (where you would expect sound levels of ductility etc), but I have also seen
such castings mechanically fail quite dramatically (very scary) when subjected to moderate lateral forces.

Forged heads will always give best results in my book, but you need to get everything right first time and make LOTS of the same component.
Casting will always be (for me) the cheaper and lower quality alternative. Billet stock is somewhere between the two. Great mechanically, but not in cost.
I suppose if a manufacturer was fully satisfied with a design and had the confidence the model would be a mainstay for many years (ala the Wave)
then I think forging would be a good option. However, bringing new models to market really needs to be done with either cast products, or if a
superior strength head is required, machined billet stock.

Just my humble view ... 

[J-sews]

Agreed 50ft, and said much better than I could.

[turnsouth]

Nicely said 50ft-trad 

[turnsouth]

Discussion aside, it will be cool to have a MT with a billet head   

[AimlessWanderer]

Cheers fellers 

It's amazing sometimes what words fall out of my face when I'm sleep deprived   

Discussion aside, it will be cool to have a MT with a billet head   

Agreed 

[Paperclip]

Talking about how a pliers head is made..., I wonder how strong the connection between the head and the frame is. For example in the Wave, a lip from the frame bears the force from the head:



Have you guys ever deformed a lip?

 

[turnsouth]

Have you guys ever deformed a lip?

I never have.

Actually I have more of a problem of springing / stretching the plier rivet than deforming the lip. I would say this is at least 50% of the reason for my Wave warranty returns.

(You know, thinking about it, if the plier head was billet...  )

[Paperclip]

I never have.

Actually I have more of a problem of springing / stretching the plier rivet than deforming the lip. I would say this is at least 50% of the reason for my Wave warranty returns.

I was wondering because it seems a bit thin (about 1mm), but then again, I don't know much about material strength/structural integrity

[J-sews]

Pretty much all Leatherman pliers rely on the "lip" as you call it Paperclip. As do the Victorinox tools, Bear tools, Gerber butterfly-opening tools, etc. It is a pretty stout and well proven system.

The sheet metal stop on the Multitasker is about 1mm thick also.

[turnsouth]

I was wondering because it seems a bit thin (about 1mm), but then again, I don't know much about material strength/structural integrity

It's not so much about material strength as it is physics, and point of force.

This can best be illustrated if you take your Wave and grasp something firmly with the pliers. Looking at the tool in this position you'll see that only a part of the force is against the area of your concern and is only coming from the muscles in your hand (transferred through the handles, to the piler head via the pivot screws, using the contact point only as a fulcrum)

Now when you begin a turning motion with the tool, a far greater amount force begins to come from the larger muscles in your arm.  If you draw an imaginary line through the tool you can follow the path of force, and see that the contact point between the head and handle is still just the fulcrum for your hand pressure, and the majority of the force is against the pivot screws and the plier head rivet.

Now, if the pliers dig into the work materiel and grab hold to the point where very little hand pressure is needed, then the force from your arm begins to transfer greatly to the fulcrum point of the pulling handle (not unlike the function of a pipe wrench). While this scenario could possibly lead to damage of the contact point, in all practically it is unlikely to happen without some sort of additional leverage (like using a pipe to extend the length of the handles). And like I said earlier, my experience has shown the pliers rivet to be the weak point.

Do you follow what I'm saying?