Do you canoe?

[Beerplumber]

Bought this good lookin' unit yesterday.

[Beerplumber]

Threw it in the local reservoir for a quick leak check before we look at painting it which it really needs.  It's not the end all canoe but if it gets used enough I'll fork out a little more and get a nice fibre glass unit.  Really want to go for a two day trip and camp out of it.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I meant to comment on this yesterday when you posted it but by the time I got back to my computer to reply properly I'd forgotten all about it!

That's a good looking boat!  As long as you are willing to get out there and use it, then it's well worth the hassle of transporting, storing etc.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[Janitor]

I paddle, but not a canoe. Well ... not one of my own - I love going out in them though. I've even been up in your fine country out in Voyagers park for a week or so back when I had my own. Amazing place, amazing transportation.

What is your boat made of?

[Beerplumber]

Unfortunately it's an aluminum hull, pretty bad lines and curves so it doesn't coast very well. That being said I grabbed it up because it was cheap, VERY light to portage and durable.  It's not pretty but should be a fine beginners canoe and I plan on stripping it and painting it over the winter months. I'm sad to say I need to google this voyager park you mentioned.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Who cares what it looks like as long as it keeps you in and the wet out? 

Have you seen pictures of my kayak?  It looks like crap but I've had a lot of fun with it.  Of course this year I hope to take it to a guy who is going to refinish it for me and it should look like a new boat by next season.

Def

[jerseydevil]

  Of course this year I hope to take it to a guy who is going to refinish it for me and it should look like a new boat by next season.

Def

What shade of pink this time, Def? I have a canoe, nothing great, an old aluminum one that I keep at my parents' house in Pennsylvania. There's a lake in the community there, so I take it out often when I'm up there. I've also taken it on several river trips, most notably 60 miles on the Delaware river, three days camping on the riverbank. Always fun. Haven't had a chance to do a river in some time, maybe next summer....

[enki_ck]

I used to kayak, had a roommate who was a kayaking instructor who tought me a lot. I didn't go kayaking fo a few years now but i miss it. I'm going to buy one for next season for sure. A bit late for this year.    

[Grant Lamontagne]

I haven't decided on a color yet. Part of me wants to keep it RED but I'm leaning towards yellow to match my Jeep.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[Janitor]

Unfortunately it's an aluminum hull, pretty bad lines and curves so it doesn't coast very well. That being said I grabbed it up because it was cheap, VERY light to portage and durable.  It's not pretty but should be a fine beginners canoe and I plan on stripping it and painting it over the winter months. I'm sad to say I need to google this voyager park you mentioned.

I spelled it wrong. It's Voyageurs - if that makes a difference. But when I look it up, it shows up in Minnesota, not Canada. I thought the US corner of that park was called the Boundary Waters Wilderness, and the Canadian side (the bulk of the area) was Voyageurs. On this side of the border it's a National park.

In any event, it's a HUGE wilderness area with no motors allowed once you're in the interior - I have no idea how many thousands of lakes are in it or how many hundreds of thousands of acres it covers. You can go in with an aluminum canoe, but you will probably be in much better shape by the time you come out than you were planning on being.

I paddle a kayak now, and portaging is just silly with that thing. I mostly paddle on Lake superior for my trips these days - lots of islands you can camp on there.

Aluminum boats may not be the best, but they are certainly priced right and they WILL get you around. And while they may not get a lot of glide per paddle stroke, they are usually really stable and good at hauling your camping gear in.

[Sea Monster]

Holy Necro Batman -

I'm moving from Kayaks to Canoes because
A. I'm old and like finer things when I camp and that means bigger and that means canoes
B. My partner wants to come with me and that means more stuff and so on

So, what to look for in a canoe?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Get a light one.

There are a lot of canoes with a bunch of fancy features like built in coolers and other fancy doodads, but in the end a heavier boat is harder to load, unload and portage, which may have you deciding not to bother.

I don't know how available they are in your area, but I am a firm believer in Canadian made SportsPal caboes, or the US made counterparts, Radisson.



This is mine- it weighs all of about 10kg (35 pounds) and can carry somewhere around a thousand pounds.  That makes it capable of handling pretty much any/all other equipment you want to bring with you.

This one is 12 feet, but they are also available in a 14 foot length, and they are also available with a square back in case you want to mount a small motor to it.



This is exactly the same as the boat I grew up with and I was very happy when I had an opportunity to get another one.

It suffers a bit from being extremely wide- that makes is super stable but not as efficient to paddle as others are, but this is offset by the SportsPal's ability to be paddled like a canoe or, with the oarlocks, rowed like a boat.

There are other good canoes available, but this is my absolute favorite.  Whatever you get though, make sure it is light enough to be put on and taken off the top of a car easily.  Everything else is secondary- a fancy built in cooler is of no benefit when you can't be bothered to go!

Def

[Sea Monster]

Thanks, I'll have a look

my only experience with canoes is basically a few days in a https://www.wenonah.com/Canoes.aspx?id=112


It was...fine I guess?

Canoes don't appear to be a big deal here, or the margins vs cost of shipping arn't enough to justify or whatever, but there's not a lot of makes to choose from.

I'm probably looking at an "Old Town Guide 147"

[Sea Monster]

It appears that ally canoes are not a "thing" in australia, which is weird because it is "Famed" for its "tinnies" - you'd think one of the ally boat makers would do a range of canoes


in my budget, I appear to me limited to decades-old decrepit fibreglass numbers - even polyethylene or that three layer whatever stuff appearing to fetch a premium even in the used market.

[Sea Monster]

it's an indicator of the pointlessness of the modern internet (and not the glorious 2000s era that spawned MT.O ) when your searches turn up results of "Best Coleman Canoes for 2024" -

when it's not even 2024 yet, and coleman hasn't made a canoe since 2001. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Yeah, the internet keeps getting worse every year thanks to clickbait sites.

But, the owners of those drive nicer cars than I do, so maybe I'm not doing it right.

Back to canoes, one of the nice things about Canada is that we have an off season.  No one wants to buy a canoe in the fall, and so it's a great time to buy since no one wants to store a canoe through the winter either.   

I don't know how much of a difference there is between your seasons, but as this would be springtime for you, I'd imagine your timing may not be optimum for picking one up?

I hear you on the pricing these days.  It used to be you could grab a decent used canoe here for $150-200, and a spectacular used one for $400.  You could get a decent new one for $500-800.

The pandemic changed all that and the $200 canoes suddenly were selling for close to a thousand and people were lined up around the block to get it.

I sold a kayak during the pandemic (yes I'm part of the problem) that I'd bought for $275 brand new almost a decade earlier.  It was a cheap Pelican Summit boat and I listed it for $400.  I had dozens of calls and several people rush over immediately to get it.

That market is cooling, at least around here, but prices still aren't where they used to be.

When buying used the best advice I have is to lay it on its keel (right side up), crouch down and line up both points of the boat.  If either side seems to stick out a bit or isn't nicely rounded, look for another one.  If the gunwales aren't smooth and even then it means the boat has been badly damaged and it won't paddle straight ever again.

Another good question is, what kind of water are you likely to paddle it on?  Are you thinking ocean, rivers, streams or Whitewater?  That can help you choose a boat, but it will also help you decide what you want/need to outfit it correctly.

Def

[Sea Monster]

Another good question is, what kind of water are you likely to paddle it on?  Are you thinking ocean, rivers, streams or Whitewater?  That can help you choose a boat, but it will also help you decide what you want/need to outfit it correctly.

There's the rub - Mostly rivers/creeks, but with a bit of rain (or lack of rain, depending on the river) any of them can theoretically have "Rapids", so I'm not really looking at fibreglass or wood. I need something that can manage bouncing off the odd rock or log, some variation of plastic.
I'd rather not have pure PE, I've got enough Kayaks made of that, and while I know it does the job, I'd like something more "classy" for the canoe.
2 people + gear (lots of gear, hence the whole canoe thing in the first place. If it was just me and a bivvy bag, I'd take a kayak!)


After searching the entire internet, I found like.....3x 16' ish canoes under $1000 near me. (I use the term "near" loosely, within 1000km of me. I think the nearest was a 4 hour drive.)

[Grant Lamontagne]

I am liking the idea of paddling in your area more with each post!   

A thousand dollars sounds pricey to me, but the market may be different there.

Def

[Sea Monster]

Well, at the moment mangos are $2 a kg, so for $1000 I can get a used plastic canoe, or half a ton of mangos.

https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/camping-and-accommodation/campgrounds/nymboida-river-campground
https://www.visitmelbourne.com/regions/the-murray/see-and-do/tours/murray-river-adventures-by-sydney-harbour-kayaks
https://www.visitnsw.com/destinations/south-coast/jervis-bay-and-shoalhaven/kangaroo-valley/attractions/kangaroo-river
https://egcma.com.au/rivers/snowy-river/


(I'm not endorsing any of those links in particular, I just put a bunch of our popular paddling rivers into a search engine and grabbed the first hits that weren't wikipedia)

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'd go with the canoe, but then I'm biased as I don't much care for mangoes!

Plus it's less likely to expire, and if it does, you'd likely have a much better story, similar to these I'll equipped German tourists in Canada!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-german-canoe-crash-1.4266176

If you are expecting Whitewater, intentional or not, you may want to look into float bags.  They are basically just air bladders that ensure you don't get too much water gathering in the boat when it splashes over the gunwales.

Also remember that whole canoes can handle some rapids, it is generally recommended that you portage around the particularly nasty bits, which is why I suggested getting something as light as possible, especially if you are likely to have a pile of gear too.   

I'd also suggest getting a foldable cart for it.  It wouldn't weigh too much, or take up much space, but can take most of the weight of your boat and equipment when you do have to portage, either from the car to the water, or somewhere else.

I us wheeleez brand carts as they work for both kayaks and canoes, but that's largely because they are available here.  There should be something in your area, whether it's Wheeleez or not

https://wheeleez.com/shop/products/carts/small-boat-carts/

They also have easily swappable tires for different terrains but I only have one set of tires each and they are the same tires.  But, it's nice to have the option.

Def

[Sea Monster]

I have a corrosion proof packable cart. How well it would go over rocks/scrub/whatever for portaging I'm not entirely confident.

I'm not (planning) to go through any "real" rapids that'll flip or otherwise upset my day (and make me lose my beloved collapsible stainless camp stove), but I'd want a boat that's not going to splinter or crack if it rubs over a submerged rock or tree.

While I've been getting stuck into reading about canoeing, I came across a "wannigan" which is apparently just a big wooden box that "traditional" canoe people like.

(Personally I'm reasonably happy with my plastic tubs I use for camping, but I'm easy to distract down rabbit holes with brief love affairs with old fashioned stuff that doesn't really work as well as modern alternatives, but looks kind of cool.)

[Grant Lamontagne]

Yes, I am famous for my two rules of paddling:

1- Always have a knife
2- If it's not secured, it's not yours.

If you watch enough canoe adventure videos online (Adventure Archives is a good example, even if they usually hike in most of their videos) you will see them flip the boat sooner or later.

In most cases, most of their stuff is recovered because they are in waterproof barrels, but they will always talk about the drone or something else that wasn't in a box and is lost at the bottom or in the current.

I try to make sure everything is tied off and in a waterproof box- and the few times I cut corners, I regretted it.

Def

[Sea Monster]

I'm a pelican case and dry bag man myself. Both have survived submersion

I suppose I should get a barrel, but for some reason I'm just not that into them.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I was definitely into Pelican cases and only Pelican cases.

I have since branched out to drybags.

I haven't gotten a barrel, not do I intend to.  I like the dry bags, and I have one large enough for pretty much anything I want to bring.

But, one thing they all have in common is that they all need to be tied to the boat!

Def

[Sea Monster]

While we're on the subject, any other canoe-trip must haves or canoe expedition hacks?

[Sea Monster]

I sent emails to all the local aluminium boat manufacturers asking if they'd ever considered or would consider making ally canoes and kayaks, and the answer was (and I'm paraphrasing) we don't consider those to be real boats, and also no.


I imagine the question was answered by the lowest person on the food chain qualified to answer emails, I doubt it reached the market research or R&D teams for any real consideration

[Grant Lamontagne]

While we're on the subject, any other canoe-trip must haves or canoe expedition hacks?

Dry bags and carts are the best suggestions I have.  I assume you have the camping and cooking supplies etc that you need.

I also like to have a GPS along for the ride.  I have an old Garmin unit that I use, but I've often thought of getting a Spot or similar type of personal locator beacon.

I'll bet the German tourists in the story I linked to above wished they'd had one!

Give me a bit to think on it and I'll let you know if I think of anything.

Def

[Sea Monster]

So for...poverty reasons (since any kind of decent we no nah or similar costs ~$4k) - I'm looking at a 4.8m plastic boat that weighs 45 kg.

I've seen the same boat marketed as a "Riber 16", a "Escapade 400" and it is on Aliexpress as a "Nice Quality 16ft 4 Seat Canoe Family Polyethylene Uvioresistant Canoe Kayak Boat"

So I assume it is close to being actual garbage, but even second hand it'll set me back $400!! (to adjust for internationalness....that's 0.6% of my annual salary)

[Grant Lamontagne]

The boat you get will be much better for you than the boat you don't have!

You could wait forever to get the ideal boat at the ideal price or you could grab what you can and go enjoy yourself.  I know which one I would choose. 

Good on you man.  I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it!

Def

[Sea Monster]

After five days paddling the barge boat I could afford, I'm ready to wait for the ideal boat now