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Sak vs Wenger!

us Offline WhichDawg

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Sak vs Wenger!
on: December 27, 2007, 11:19:31 PM
or Vic vs Wenger! I know both are owned by Victorinox but of the two swiss army knives makers, which do you prefer? and why?
if I'm going to own/collect tons, I'd like opinions :D


us Offline NutSAK

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #1 on: December 27, 2007, 11:38:27 PM
They're both great knife manufacturers and, in my opinion, of equal quality.

With that said, I prefer Victorinox.  The reasons are that Victorinox has a wider variety of tool configurations available, and I simple prefer the can opener/screwdriver tool on the Victorinox.  The small screwdriver on the Victorinox can opener is perfect for turning phillips screws, and I can't bring myself to carry a Wenger because it is lacks this tool.  Wenger and Victorinox both offer in-line phillips drivers that can be used instead, but Wenger only offers it on large, bulky models.

- Terry


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #2 on: December 27, 2007, 11:41:11 PM
Wenger is a great train to get on right now- they are in a huge state of growth and a major turning point in the evolution of their products.  There are some great things that just came out, and more to come.

Def
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Offline FredKJ

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #3 on: December 27, 2007, 11:56:08 PM
They're both great knife manufacturers and, in my opinion, of equal quality.

With that said, I prefer Victorinox.  The reasons are that Victorinox has a wider variety of tool configurations available, and I simple prefer the can opener/screwdriver tool on the Victorinox.  The small screwdriver on the Victorinox can opener is perfect for turning phillips screws, and I can't bring myself to carry a Wenger because it is lacks this tool.  Wenger and Victorinox both offer in-line phillips drivers that can be used instead, but Wenger only offers it on large, bulky models.



When I got the Wenger S557 the other week I thought I'd be missing the small screwdriiver on the can opener as well.  But I found the angled blade on the can opener is perfect for cutting open clamshell packages and cutting open boxes.

From what I gathered 911 dropped SAK sales by 40% and it drove Wenger into the ground and Victorinox did a white knight buyout of Wenger.  We can't have those SAKs in the hands of terrorists, lol.

Victorinox design seems to be going in the direction of hi-tech with memory sticks, altimeters etc.  Wenger seems to be going in the direction of an engineered tool like the S557 with a locking blade(hope that isn't marked as illegal) and locking scrrewdrivers along with the ergonomic scales. 


us Offline WhichDawg

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #4 on: December 27, 2007, 11:58:35 PM
I do like locking tools but like you mentioned, it could be a problem for some countries/states.


Offline FredKJ

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #5 on: December 28, 2007, 12:00:31 AM
I do like locking tools but like you mentioned, it could be a problem for some countries/states.

People tend to confuse safety with weapon.

What could be scandal is if the Swiss army does open their contract and ends up with China made knock offs.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #6 on: December 28, 2007, 12:04:03 AM
I wouldn't worry about that if I were you:

Future of the Soldier

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline WhichDawg

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #7 on: December 28, 2007, 01:04:23 AM
question; How long is Wengers Warranty?


us Offline CQC-7

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #8 on: December 28, 2007, 01:08:25 AM
Vic or Wenger, Hmmm, that is a good debate.  I have to say I would go with Vic all the way.  

Here is the reasoning for my answer.

I love aspects of both knives dearly.  However Vic knives are of better construction in my opinion.  I have never broken the scales off of a Victorinox by accident.  The Victorinox knives seem to be put together better even the toothpick and tweezers fit better.  

Now having said that I like the Wenger designs a lot they are generally more compact.  A true pocket size model with a locking blade is somthing that is tough to beat.


Offline kreskin13

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #9 on: December 28, 2007, 01:10:38 AM
I wouldn't worry about that if I were you:

Future of the Soldier

Def

Great article Def, I don't really mind things made in China (they have to eat too) but when it comes to certain things like SAK's we expect top quality. Products made in China give us an option of saving a little money on things that are, by their very nature, generic anyway. This gives us more money to buy the good stuff that we really care about made by the best companies.

P.S. Im a Vic man but own several Wengers and will continue to buy them.

Calvin




 
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us Offline CQC-7

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #10 on: December 28, 2007, 01:25:00 AM
China is invading our markets as we speak.  I am not saying that they are not capable of making a "good" knife that is cheap (just pick up a mora for $12).  I am saying that they are incapable of making a working work of art like a Vic or Wenger.  No matter how long they make knives in China they will never be as good as a genuine SAK made by either of the two makers mentioned above.


Offline crls1

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #11 on: December 28, 2007, 01:42:14 AM
I think Victorinox have a little more quality, but i own only two Wengers, so is no fair comparition. Wenger is not easily available here, but as soon as they become easier to get, i will be buying more.

Carlos
(


Offline FredKJ

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #12 on: December 28, 2007, 02:01:49 AM
I think one of the problems with Wenger in their weakened condition is distribution and retail.  I checked on available retailers in my Denver area and there are none.  Of course with the increased availability of online shopping that may not be as bad. Vic shows their blades as having a Rockwell 56.  I wonder what Wenger's is?  Wenger has some different things like serrated blades.  I'm still comparing things like the difference in scissors spring mechanisms.  The construction of my Wenger seems pretty solid.  I'll probably get a couple more.  Extras like tweezers, toothpick and magnifiers seem better on the Vic.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #13 on: December 28, 2007, 02:37:11 AM
SO many responses, so little time!   >:D

question; How long is Wengers Warranty?

Longer than any of us here will live- it is a lifetime warranty just like Victorinox.

Quote
I think one of the problems with Wenger in their weakened condition

Weakened condition?  Wenger has never been in as good a shape as they are right now.  They have had more new products released in the last 18 months than many have in the previous 5 years, they've added to their innovations and expanded their offerings to the point where the brand has been completely revamped.  Take another look at the "New Wenger" for many examples of this, and hold on to your seat because they aren't done yet!

Wenger Innovations

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline WhichDawg

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #14 on: December 28, 2007, 07:38:21 AM
I asked about the warranty because someone said Wengers is only 25 yrs in BF, but I believe Def! like peanut butter :D


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #15 on: December 28, 2007, 08:30:40 AM
Well in defense of whoever said that on BF, they probably never learned to look things up on that there innerweb thing...

http://www.wengerna.com/faq.jsp?cat_id=3

All Wenger Genuine Swiss Army Knives are covered under a limited lifetime warranty. If you have a Wenger Genuine Swiss Army Knife that is in need of repair, please send your knife to (US Customers only):

Wenger Swiss Army Knife Repair
15 Corporate Drive
Orangeburg, NY 10962  U.S.A.

If you live outside the US, please use the World Wide Partners map to locate an authorized Wenger Service Center for your country. This will take you to a map of the world. Click on your country. It will list dealer and repair facility names, addresses, telephone numbers, and e-mail addresses. Please contact the facility closest to you to inquire about knife repairs.

In our effort to better serve you, we have provided a list of shipping instructions. Following these instructions will ensure that your knife is returned in a timely manner.


 >:D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


Offline FredKJ

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #16 on: December 28, 2007, 02:31:39 PM
I think there is a perception that Wengers are poorer in quality.  Here's my take.  In getting a S557 I find it superior in design with the locking knife and screwdriver mechanisms.  The scissors/pliers spring seems more robust.  I have had a Super Tinker for 13 years and replaced the scissors spring twice.  This is not a biggy but most people who buy a SAK aren't aware that they can be replaced cheaply.  What does seem of poorer quality on the Wenger is the accessories like the magnifier, compass, tweezers and toothpick.  Seems they could improve this easily. 

Wenger offers serrated blades.  I personally don't prefer these unless I am cutting rope or cord but I also grew up carrying a knife and learned how to sharpen one.  For someone who hasn't and isn't likely to ever sharpen the blade there is a distinct advantage to a serrated blade for usual tasks. 

Wenger doesn't seem to have the marketing or distribution of Vic.  One seldom sees SAKs marketed.  Here in Colorado where there are a lot of outdoor shops there is some and is considered one of those hikers "10 essentials".  This makes EDC more likely around here.  I wonder if the MacGyver show ever got compensated for featuring the SAK?  It had to do wonders for sales.  Unfortunately the events of 911 and Columbine banned and to some extent criminalized carrying a SAK on an airplane or at school.  When I was younger I carried a regular pocket knife and in recent decades carry a SAK.  It's more versatile but is also less likely to be perceived as a weapon.  I think the more gadgets on one the more this is so.  I grew up in a culture and age where EDC for a pocket knife was "normal".  Now the wrong person can freak.  There are many adults in the current generation who don't consider carrying a pocket knife as normal.  I got my 11 year old boys Explorer models.  They have more gadgets to be perceived less as weapons and dangerous.  I know they can't have them at school unfortunately but I don't want them to have the SAK on them with some other parent who lacks cerebral grey matter who might freak and overrreact.  For Wenger or Vic for that matter to increase usage they need to show a perception that these are something "normal" to carry. 

I also noticed on Amazon that women who do make comments tend the like the larger ones and perceive them as a "purse" knife.  There is an appeal to the feminist sense of self-reliance. 


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #17 on: December 28, 2007, 02:59:50 PM
Wengers used to have marginally lower quality of fit and finish than Victorinox, and one could make the argument that this is still the case.  I wouldn't agree mind you, but the argument could be made.  My feeling is that being a close second to Victorinox still puts you miles ahead of the competition.

Wenger has always put more of their focus into development of new ideas, and it shows in much more advanced designs than Victorinox.

I agree that Wenger's supply lines to the end user aren't as well developed, but that is also changing since Victorinox purchased them.  In a conversation with my contact at Wenger, he mentioned that they had many ideas in the pipeline, but due to the failing financial situation of the company they couldn't develop them properly.  In a last ditch effort to pull themselves out of their problems they launched the Evolution series with the ergonomic scales, but it was too little, too late.  Now, with the financial backing of the Elseners, they have opened the "Drawer of Ideas" and started developing them, which is why we are seeing so many new products coming out right left and center- the new Rangers, the EVOGrips, the Swiss Clipper, the Giant... and there is rumored to be a new product coming out soon, although I don't have any details yet.

I have had a Wenger Adventurer as part of my EDC for over ten years now, from back in the days of the "second rate" Wenger, and I can tell you that it is just as solid a knife as any other I've encountered from any manufacturer.  In fact, it was the knife that replaced my trusty old Camper model, and was my first Wenger, recommended by Wenger's representatives in Canada, a company called Swiss Peak.  It's basically the same as the Climber model  :climber: only the small blade is replaced with a nail file, the main blade locks, the screwdriver locks and it has the "new" scissor design which uses the backspring rather than the small, fragile spring found on older Wengers and current Victorinox models.

Even guys who disliked Wengers a few years ago are really interested in Wengers now thanks to the new designs and increased appeal.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


Offline FredKJ

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #18 on: December 28, 2007, 03:12:46 PM
In the Denver area there is a large market for outdoor enthusiasts.  Carrying a SAK is not seen so out of place in these modern fearmongering times.  We have outdoor shops on every street corner like REI, EMS and numerous smaller ones.  Having a SAK with you is considered essential for mountain activities.  Yet none of the stores here seem to carry Wenger.  You could find a Vic in any of them.  While I have always had Vics I like the EvoGrip and locking mechanisms on the S557.  It also seems like their more outdoor oriented Ranger series would go over good in this market.  The wrench on the S557 is great for backpacker stove maintainence.  The Vic hook makes a great pot bail lifter.  Perhaps here ski binding tools would go over good.  Wenger really needs to land a contract with a big outdoor store like REI, Bass Pro shops, or a sporting goods chain. 


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #19 on: December 28, 2007, 03:20:47 PM
I agree completely, and as I understand it, that is something they are working on.  Again, now that they have some financial backing, they can try to get around more.  I have noticed in my insignificant corner of the world that Wenger is starting to show up more and more, so I imagine it's just a matter of time before you see them cropping up in your neck of the woods too.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline ducktapehero

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #20 on: December 28, 2007, 05:42:50 PM
Some things Vic's do better and some things Wenger does better. I like Vic's can opener much better but Wenger is offering lockblades on some of their medium sized knives. To get a locking Vic you have to get one of their big knives. As for which one I prefer, well I usually carry a Vic in my pocket and a Wenger pocket tool chest on my keyring.
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Offline FredKJ

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Re: Sak vs Wenger!
Reply #21 on: December 28, 2007, 06:56:16 PM
While I have carried a Vic Super Tinker for years I love my new Wenger EvoGrip S557.  Yes it has a locking blade and is compact enough for pocket carry yet has a lot of stuff on it. 


 

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