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SAK's in school

FredKJ · 57 · 6918

us Offline NutSAK

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #30 on: December 19, 2007, 01:13:55 AM
I agree with you to some extent, but you will also have to take away real guns from anyone in the child's family.  Kids learn a great deal by watching. 

I agree, but the kids of today are going to grow up eventually and be the "adults".  It's easier to make it prohibitive to use a gun or own a knife as a kid than it is to do that to adults.  Who's ever behind this is looking decades into the future.  A western world full of pansies and pushovers. 

Oh well, what can we do but :drink: and wait for out next multitool to arrive.

Well said.

...and I can think of a whole lot of worse things to do in the meantime.  :D
- Terry


us Offline BIG-TARGET

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #31 on: December 19, 2007, 05:35:43 AM
I agree with you to some extent, but you will also have to take away real guns from anyone in the child's family.  Kids learn a great deal by watching. 

I agree, but the kids of today are going to grow up eventually and be the "adults".  It's easier to make it prohibitive to use a gun or own a knife as a kid than it is to do that to adults.  Who's ever behind this is looking decades into the future.  A western world full of pansies and pushovers. 

Oh well, what can we do but :drink: and wait for out next multitool to arrive.
And prray Felinevet Tim doesn't get busted as an illegal arms dealer
"Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall;
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 And some condemned for a fault alone." -William Shakespeare, King Lear (1608), Act IV, scene 6, line 169


Offline I'm Still Bison

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #32 on: December 19, 2007, 01:57:55 PM
So far I've tried to stay out of this one,because thinking of it all sickens and enrages me.I've lived either long enough,or in a change eras...all the things that have gone and are lamented I've seen and done,and more.In our mad rush to make kinder gentler society,we've only made a meaner, less tolerant society in place of the one that was at least,polite.
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Offline FredKJ

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #33 on: December 19, 2007, 02:10:42 PM
Just an aside on this.  My boys are in Virginia with their mother.  This morning one them  was on the phone with me and asked, "when did you start puberty?" Now they are in the 5th grade.  The school can teach this stuff which is clearly in the domain of the parent but if they take a SAK to school They would be busted and I would get heat from social services.  Gitmo and waterboarding would ensue.  Clearly the whole thing of being a parent has been usurped.                                             


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #34 on: December 19, 2007, 02:38:30 PM
July 15th, 1987 at about three seventeen in the afternoon, Atlantic time....

I am too much of a smartass to have kids!   :D

Def
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Offline FredKJ

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #35 on: December 19, 2007, 02:43:37 PM
July 15th, 1987 at about three seventeen in the afternoon, Atlantic time....

I am too much of a smartass to have kids!   :D

Def

I am too so I spawned and perpetuated the smartass genes,  :D

I think this is telling though of how we can no longer be parents.  The school can pound us for giving our kids a pocket knife but they take on sex education which is clearly a parental thing.  Amazing what's going on.


scotland Offline Sea Monster

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #36 on: December 19, 2007, 08:33:09 PM
Quote
I think this is telling though of how we can no longer be parents.  The school can pound us for giving our kids a pocket knife but they take on sex education which is clearly a parental thing.  Amazing what's going on.

I think some schools are having a whinge that they don't want to be teaching Sex ed and various other topics - that they want the issue given to the parents anyway.

Heck - Schools have Banned running 'cause it's dangerous, why did you ever think SAKs had a white rappers chance in showbiz of being allowed?

In any case, I see School as only about 45-55% useful - Which any given parent may or may not consider to be efficient enough for their money.
If you want practical education and life experiences for your sprogs, teach 'em yourself, or send them to extra curricular things (someone mentioned scouts?)

Crime is generally caused by dissatisfaction with ones lot in life - I see the wisdom in not allowed schoolkids to have weapons  :-\

Either way, I'm not going to complain too loud, as I'm opposed to Firearms in urban environs, and people might start calling me out for supporting one weapon whilst opposing another.


Offline FredKJ

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #37 on: December 19, 2007, 08:47:20 PM
I just used the SAK argument with the vice principal.  I am pushing it.  If they think I am not using common sense as I put it to her what would happen if one of my kids was caught in school with a SAK?  Think there would be common sense there?  It would be Gitmo and waterboarding for them and me basically.  I'm not some sort of ultra-conservative Christian fundamentalist weirdo, in fact far from it yet I find myself with strange bedfellows.  I'm not sure when things changed with pocket knives in school but all my friends had them when I was in school and I don't seem to remember a single incident with them.  So to restrict a right requires some credible risk.  Where is it?  My teachers actually liked that I carried a knife.  I was always handy. 

I'm not against sex education in school but it has to be parent-driven and under parental guidance.  So it is about losing our basic rights.  It was actually considered "good" that I had a pocket knife at school.  Now my kids would be considered a terrorist threat or something.  I was glad to give my boys SAK's, nice Explorer models with magnifying glasses etc.  I would like them to always be able to have them with them as long as they use them responsibly.  There was a time when having a pocket knife on you was a "be prepared" Boy Scout thing.  Oh yeah, there's the MacGyver thing as well.  He's a real violent role model.


scotland Offline Sea Monster

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #38 on: December 20, 2007, 11:47:27 AM
Quote
I'm not against sex education in school but it has to be parent-driven and under parental guidance.  So it is about losing our basic rights.  It was actually considered "good" that I had a pocket knife at school.  Now my kids would be considered a terrorist threat or something.  I was glad to give my boys SAK's, nice Explorer models with magnifying glasses etc.  I would like them to always be able to have them with them as long as they use them responsibly.  There was a time when having a pocket knife on you was a "be prepared" Boy Scout thing.  Oh yeah, there's the MacGyver thing as well.  He's a real violent role model.

There's a grey area between "them" being afraid of violent anarchy and "us" being afraid of jack-booted oppression. Let's try to avoid both extremes in any argument, lest we all look mad.


us Offline CQC-7

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #39 on: December 20, 2007, 09:28:32 PM
Now this might seem very over the top but I think they should teach kids to handle firearms along with knives in school.  IT teaches responsibility and patience both of which are lacking in todays youth.  But then again, I also believe that sports should come second to education.  Try saying that in public where I live and you would be hanged.  That is why I never became a teacher or a coach.  I would not let my players play if they had under a 3.0 GPA.  Parents and teachers for that matter a too worried about the little things that are insignificant at best.  They want to teach sex-ed but dont want the kids to have sex.  If you teach kids to use BC if they have sex guess what, they will think it is OK to have sex as long as they use whatever BC method is available.  What a perfect world we live in. :ahhh 


Offline Anthony

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #40 on: December 21, 2007, 01:14:23 AM
When I went to sex education class in the 6th grade, it wasn't about "feelings" or why you should or should not have sex...it was about sperm and eggs.  It was a discussion about human reproduction, not so much about "sex".

And if you were caught with a pocketknife, you would be told to "put it away for now" or "be careful with that"...you weren't handcuffed.  Hell, I even brought in a boomerang one day and the teacher let us throw it at recess and told everyone to STAND BACK! :D
[


Offline FredKJ

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #41 on: December 21, 2007, 02:22:58 PM
When I was growing up as a kid the "Holy Grail" of pocket knives to own was a Boker Tree Brand.  It is a very expensive knife for a working class kid so when you got one of those it was special.  In scouts and stuff it was your whittling and carving knife.  For that you needed a razor sharp edge that could be held and Bokers could do this.  A teacher might envy you for having it and would never think of taking it from you as it was a prized possession.  When I was a kid I didn't have a SAK but a Boy Scout multi-function knife,  one with a bottle opener, can opener and awl.  A teacher would never think of taking your knife.  If you got in a little trouble or something they might hold it till the end of the day. 


Offline I'm Still Bison

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #42 on: December 21, 2007, 05:14:57 PM
When I was growing up as a kid the "Holy Grail" of pocket knives to own was a Boker Tree Brand.  It is a very expensive knife for a working class kid so when you got one of those it was special.  In scouts and stuff it was your whittling and carving knife.  For that you needed a razor sharp edge that could be held and Bokers could do this.  A teacher might envy you for having it and would never think of taking it from you as it was a prized possession.  When I was a kid I didn't have a SAK but a Boy Scout multi-function knife,  one with a bottle opener, can opener and awl.  A teacher would never think of taking your knife.  If you got in a little trouble or something they might hold it till the end of the day. 
                      Not only all that,but on days when the teachers didn't feel much like teaching,they'd talk knives,and pull theirs out for a show and tell.Sweet memories of that last day before Christmas breaks coming flooding back :)
I


Offline FredKJ

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #43 on: December 21, 2007, 05:24:12 PM
My first knife was a Barlow when I was about 8, typical first kid's knife.  There was always a pecking order.  Schrade etc were the Chevy's.  Something like a Camillus was a Cady.  A Tree Brand was a Mercedes.  I grew up in a small rural Alabama town.  Everyone had a pocket knife.  You could tell someone's lifestyle and occupation by what they carried.  The SAK blade is flat and multi-purpose, not particularly well suited for whittling but will do.  It was just something you had with your keys and change.  No cop or teacher would "freak" if you had one on you.  Worst case is that a teacher might take it away and give it back at the end of the day, you know "common sense".  I would have never thought about being "dangerous" having one on me. 


Offline I'm Still Bison

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #44 on: December 21, 2007, 05:40:41 PM
Home was,and is, a small town on the Ohio River in southern Ohio.SAKs didn't come into vogue around here until after I graduated high school.Most boys carried a Scout knife,up to certain age,the day you got your first Case XX,usually a stockman,was almost like the day you came of age.
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Offline FredKJ

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #45 on: December 24, 2007, 01:09:50 PM
Since I know some of you "bloaks" live in the UK I noticed in looking into this in places like the UK you have to show "a good reason" to carry a pocket knife or multi-tool which seems to lead to arbitrary judgements.  Take this case for example:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=441033&in_page_id=1770&ito=newsnow

At least in the United States aside from government buildings, schools and airport security a typical pocket knife or multi-tool is not usually an issue.  Of course people don't seem to understand that zero tolerance rules in school seem to have more than slight problems with the issue of "due process" in the 5th and 14th ammendments to the constitution. 

That being said I think most of you guys would argue that a typical person carrying a SAK or multi-tool could easily argue that any person in ordinary life pursuit could show "a good reason" for carrying a SAK or multi-tool.  Of course tell that to a cop who is having a "bad day".

There were two watershed events that have changed things.  One is Columbine.  I live in the Denver metro area so was near ground zero of Columbine and watched the insane reactions to it.  The other was 911 with its own insane reactions.

I think it was well said by a famous American patriot when we decided we didn't want the arbitrary rule of you guys' king George.

"The man who trades freedom for security deserves neither."
  -Benjamin Franklin


Offline I'm Still Bison

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #46 on: December 24, 2007, 09:21:41 PM
And championed by Brits that weren't too fond of how things were going back then too;Edmund Burke,William Pitt, to name a few.
I


Offline FredKJ

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #47 on: December 25, 2007, 12:21:24 AM
I think modern packaging would justify "reason to carry" for anyone!!!  Whenever I am trying to rip open the package of something I bought and it doesn't happen fast I have my convincer.  I was wondering about the can opener on my new Wenger S557 not having the nice small screwdriver that Victorinox has.  But I've found it makes up for that.  It's a perfect box opener and I had a plastic clamshell package the other day.  That angled heavy short bottle opener is made for those clamshell packages from hell.


us Offline CQC-7

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #48 on: December 27, 2007, 12:47:35 AM
A good example of how a person is justified in carrying a knife was yesterday.  All those kids toys needed to be opened ASAP and I was the only guy witha  SAK handy at the time so guess who got the job.


Offline FredKJ

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #49 on: December 27, 2007, 04:33:43 PM
I particularly like the can opener on my new Wenger.  It lacks the screwdriver but that short stiff angled edge is particularly good on those annoying plastic clamshell packages.


us Offline CQC-7

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #50 on: December 28, 2007, 01:38:52 AM
I particularly like the can opener on my new Wenger.  It lacks the screwdriver but that short stiff angled edge is particularly good on those annoying plastic clamshell packages.

I have found that out as well.  Definately a great tool to have at your disposal.  I use mine on the golf course a lot.  That sharp edge really cleans out the grooves on my clubs.  I dont carry it during a tournament though because it actually re-cuts the grooves and thus "alters the club from the original state it was in at the beginning of play" making it illegal froma technical standpoint.  During casual play nobody cares. 


us Offline ducktapehero

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #51 on: December 28, 2007, 06:10:47 PM
Thankfully I live in a "pocketknife and gun" friendly area. I sometimes see guys with a big fixed blade knife strapped to them and as far as I can tell it's not a big deal. One reason why I love the Ozarks. I don't know how strict the public schools are around here, my son is only 2. However, I went to career college last year and having a knife wasn't a problem.

In fact, twice the teachers asked if I could help do something with my knife. One, a door handle fell off and I needed my LM juice in my backpack to fix it, the other time we were dissecting a pig and all they had was a little 1" scalpel. The teacher asked if I had a bigger knife, my Super Tinker made quick work of the little dead oinker. But this is the Ozarks and a lot of men still carry a knife.

Growing up, I didn't live in the Ozarks but I was in small town Missouri so the attitude was about the same. Having a pocketknife was just something that was normal. I got my 1st "real" knife when I was about 9 or 10. It was a Buck 501 and that was possibly the best Xmas present I ever got. Other candidates would be various guns I got.  ;) But I carried that knife every day, to school, to church and it wasn't ever a problem. NOTHING was ever even said. It wasn't a weapon, the baseball bat sitting in my room was a much more deadly weapon.

I just don't understand, how did we become cowards? When did we start to fear inanimate objects instead of the evil people that use them? Our punishment system is all messed up. Get busted with a little whacky tobacky and you're sitting in prison for years. Of course, when you send that guy to prison, the guy who brutally raped and strangled an 8 year old girl goes free because the prison is now full.  Of course, us taxpayers get to pay for it all.

Sorry for the vent, the whole situation just pisses me off.
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us Offline CQC-7

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #52 on: December 28, 2007, 06:29:35 PM
I definately agree with you.  Knives were not a problem where I live until the gangbangers started flocking into the small city that I live in.  Now everyone is up for scrutiny.  I hate the fact that we have becomme sissies for the most part.  We all have the left wing commies in office to blame for all our problems. :)


us Offline ducktapehero

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #53 on: December 28, 2007, 06:32:25 PM
We all have the left wing commies in office to blame for all our problems. :)
I blame ALL of the politicians. But then again, I hate most people.  :twak:
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Offline FredKJ

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #54 on: December 28, 2007, 06:41:33 PM
Part of the problem is that knife laws are such a hodgepodge that vary from state to state and in every municipality.  They are also often vague.  Usually ignorance of the law is no excuse.  But a Philadelphia lawyer would have trouble keeping track of them.  I realize I have had my SAK with me going to my kids' school.  Most times that I have been asked to tighten a screw or open a package and I get out my SAK I get a thankyou.  But in a situation like at a school I realize I could end up being cuffed and taken downtown just for being helpful. 


Offline Anthony

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #55 on: December 29, 2007, 12:57:06 AM
The blurb in the paper would read:

MAN WITH KNIFE ARRESTED IN LOCAL SCHOOL

 ::)
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us Offline CQC-7

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Re: SAK's in school
Reply #56 on: December 29, 2007, 06:52:22 PM
The article may also read.


MAN WAS CARRYING A DEADLY SWISS ARMY KNIFE LIKE THE ONE CARRIED BY MACGYVER. :D


 

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