And so it begins.... (My adventures into Alox!)

[Syph007]

The 84's do have their own custom size blade and openers.  Just slightly smaller and thinner than the 91's.  007 Cadet! I like that!

[ICanFixThat]

Quick update to my super cadet (what would the proper name be anyhow, cadet plus?).  I didnt like the first type of screws I used so I ground down some countersink ones and got those to fit nice.  Looks better I think 

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Beauty!!     

You don't know how long people have been dreaming for a model like this.

Now let's make that can-opener and nail-file just a bit more useful, and maybe a touch of brass for a touch class. 

 

[ICanFixThat]

Springs! 

Hot off the laser, 222 custom springs for scissors or pliers depending on how thick they're ground and how high that little rest bump is ground down. They're looking pretty gnarly now but they'll have it even worse once they get into the heat treat oven. They'll be tempered to around 45 Rc and then on to be surface ground to 2 different thicknesses Each one will be hand fitted and polished as it gets installed.


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As compared to a Solo spring. Plenty of extra meat on the rest riser to be ground down to the perfect height as each one gets hand fitted. Same with the ramp. Notice how they slope up from the center pivot to the working end so the thumb lever of the scissors or pliers can slide right up that ramp and close gently as they snap shut rather than hitting that bump like on the blade and saw springs we've been using.

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Soon there will be no more buying 2 Farmers to get the saw springs for pliers or a Pioneer or Solo to get a blade spring for scissors. We want to make these mods as affordable as possible so everybody can enjoy one. 

That really is           

I can see some great mods in the near future from these.  SAK modding is having an awakening; less sacrifices and more enlightenment.

[nuphoria]

How exciting

Beautiful things and springs to make more... big smile here!

[enki_ck]

I love coming here to this thread. It's always a  moment when you two post pics. I like the part of making these mods more affordable too.

[Syph007]

Syph you are killing me mate 

The 007 Cadet is  , small blade instead of the can opener  .Add brass liners & I am a dribbling wreck 

The small blade should fit there, I'd have to test to be certain though.  I'm working on making up some brass liners tonight.  I just have to make a template for the liner pattern as I haven't made any by hand yet.  I'll do my best to make you into the dribbling wreck I promise! LOL 

[tattoosteve99]

Syph you are killing me mate 

The 007 Cadet is  , small blade instead of the can opener  .Add brass liners & I am a dribbling wreck 

The small blade should fit there, I'd have to test to be certain though.  I'm working on making up some brass liners tonight.  I just have to make a template for the liner pattern as I haven't made any by hand yet.  I'll do my best to make you into the dribbling wreck I promise! LOL 

The small blade fits

[Sidhartha]

wow! thats a lot of springs !

[Syph007]

wow! thats a lot of springs !

 

I bought a 6 ft long by 6 inch wide piece of 440c blade steel and thats how many the laser cut out of that piece.    I figured in the cost and it only made sense to do this if we did a bunch at once so I just went for it.  Soooo... kind really hoping it works out well in the end and my fingers are crossed. 

[enki_ck]

I just had a thought how you could solve the rare 84mm Vic scissors problem.

Now that you two have the capability to make your own backsprings, why not make them a bit longer on the working end and solve the problem with the Wenger 85mm scissors compatibility? The problem for putting Wenger scissors into a Vic frame was that the Wenger spring did not fit cause of the middle pin and the Victorinox spring was too short, as the Wenger scissors have a longer shaft/cut out on the back end.

If you are making your own springs, you could just make that end longer and make the dream of a Vic SAK with Wenger scissors reality.   The pivot hole on the Wenger is a bit larger, but you're drilling the pivot out anyway for the screws, right?
 
 Did I ever mention I love Wenger scissors? 

[Syph007]

Huh, that is interesting and thanks for the pics.  I haven't experimented too much with Wenger parts as they are much harder to find around here, but I do like the Wenger scissors as well.  I have 2 Wenger travelers in the shop I bought for 1 dollar each, but I had planned restore jobs on those as another project.

The only mod I had thought about for the wenger scissors is to make a backspring that was half the width, so that the scissor spring that kept the scissor open was separate from the one that gave them their springyness if that makes sense.  Why?  Just so they don't bob up and down while I cut, thats the only con for me, otherwise I love them. 

[Rahmed]

 222 springs? Mamma mia

[ICanFixThat]

.....
The only mod I had thought about for the wenger scissors is to make a backspring that was half the width, so that the scissor spring that kept the scissor open was separate from the one that gave them their springyness if that makes sense.  Why?  Just so they don't bob up and down while I cut, thats the only con for me, otherwise I love them.

That would be nice, I would like them a lot more if they worked correctly.  You probably noticed that is what they do with their small knives so there they work quite nicely.  On the large knives it really bugs me if I need to do more than a single snip.  It just feels all wrong and there is less precision for thinks like paper or anything that might move.  Vic 91mm scissors rule for me right now.

[crackout]

That's just awesome!

[Syph007]

Ok I've been diving into 84mm mods this past week, and I want to show a specific problem I finally solved.  I'll post my problem first then what I came up with as a solution. (I'm also curious if anyone has any other ideas, but this is all I could think of to do).

First the goal was to get a philips/caplifter layer together on an 84mm cadet.

The new style philips is shorter but has almost no extra metal to it to relocate the pivot, so this mod is really only possible with the older style philips.  Here you can see that it is so long there is just no way to make it fit without relocating the pivot hole and a lot of grinding.



Here is what the philips piece looks like with a new 1/8 inch pivot hole and significant grinding to contour the end.



Great I think, seems to work fine in the open position and good snap.



And at first try it seems fine in the closed position too....



... but it's not.  There is so little metal left that the momentum of the closing action just shoots the philips right down into the scale and buries it.



So what to do?  Sure a custom made spring could solve it, but that not a realistic solution unless I want to make 250 of these?  Hmm nope, but what to do?

[Syph007]

Here is what I finally came up with after 3 failed alternate attempts.

I took the 91mm spring from the old style philips/mag layer, and ground it to length to fit on the 84mm frame.  This was a nice spring to work with since its already the perfect width for the philips component.

Now.. how to make a rest for it?  Here is what I did.  I drilled a 1/8 inch hole in the meat of the spring (to not effect the spring integrity) and then filed out a rectangular channel to open it up.  This yielded a sort of round dovetail shape.  Now I just needed to make a piece to match up with this shape.  I took a small chunk from a modern philips/mag layer spring (since it's identical in thickness) and ground a 1/8 inch bulb shape on it to fit the hole I made.  I made sure to have it a snug fit and then coated it in red loctite and tapped it in. 



The result was better than I hoped, it does not have even the tiniest bit of wiggle and it's completely rock solid.



Hmm, looks weird I know, but...



... it provides a perfect rest for the philips component and it no longer flops down into the scales.



Here is what the layer looks like assembled.  Both tools have nice solid snap for both open and close. 



So.. while its a bit of an unorthodox solution, I didnt compromise the spring integrity, and provided a good rest for the philips driver.   The other solution I had dreamed up was to have the rest held on by the liners, but that would make assembly much tougher, so I'm quite happy with this as a solution.

This was for sure the most 'extreme' spring modding Ive ever done, but I'm quite pleased with how it turned out.

Cheers

[nj2656]

Not sure if you've seen it or not but on the old SOSAK site Scibeer did a mod on an phillips. Not sure all the details but there were lots of pics. Maybe of use. I will be contacting you in the near future for a a Cadet with that mod plus the 93 awl and 91 scissors. Work out all the bugs cause I can't wait.

[Syph007]

Not sure if you've seen it or not but on the old SOSAK site Scibeer did a mod on an phillips. Not sure all the details but there were lots of pics. Maybe of use. I will be contacting you in the near future for a a Cadet with that mod plus the 93 awl and 91 scissors. Work out all the bugs cause I can't wait.

I'll have to take a look.  The only mod I've seen so far with a philips on a cadet was this one.

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=1128

Getting the philips on the bigger 93mm frame works no problem, but on the 84mm it's much trickier.

[WWW]

That is what I call a fantastic mod, very interesting. It may be a little unorthodox but it is very clever!

I think I can blame you for getting me, more and more, into Alox SAK's!! Hopefully in the near future I may put my hands into one of your beauties!!

[nj2656]

The mod was on a cellidor but in theory I would think it would translate over.

[tattoosteve99]

Another possible alternative maybe would be to shorten the cap lifter instead. Looks to have plenty of metal and that would aid in the length of the Phillips???

[MadPlumbarian]

Nice job  keep up the good work,, JR

[bushidomosquito]

That's an awesome mod. I was looking at that and thinking that the student has surpassed the master but then...

What about just filing a few notches in the right places to make a sort of sear catch mechanism? Something like if you removed the black areas in this picture,



What you have looks slick but seems like a lot of work filing and fitting. I'd treat it like a firearms sear and build a simple block with pins to put the spring and driver on. Then drill a bigger hole through the block in the area where the sear catch will be filed so you can slip the file through there and swing either the driver or spring out of the way as you file the other. If it has a hard snap as is maybe a little relief in that area will make it snap less hard and make it easy on that little catch.

I played with my first 84mm this weekend and I've decided to leave them all up to you. Just let me know if anybody asks you for ti scales. I've got 4 of those long drivers, 2 have worn tips so they might be good to practice the catch filing on. I'll send them to you in your next care package with the Ti 93 scales.

[Syph007]

That's an awesome mod. I was looking at that and thinking that the student has surpassed the master but then...

What about just filing a few notches in the right places to make a sort of sear catch mechanism? Something like if you removed the black areas in this picture,

(Image removed from quote.)

What you have looks slick but seems like a lot of work filing and fitting. I'd treat it like a firearms sear and build a simple block with pins to put the spring and driver on. Then drill a bigger hole through the block in the area where the sear catch will be filed so you can slip the file through there and swing either the driver or spring out of the way as you file the other. If it has a hard snap as is maybe a little relief in that area will make it snap less hard and make it easy on that little catch.

I played with my first 84mm this weekend and I've decided to leave them all up to you. Just let me know if anybody asks you for ti scales. I've got 4 of those long drivers, 2 have worn tips so they might be good to practice the catch filing on. I'll send them to you in your next care package with the Ti 93 scales.

Hmm a sear catch.  That could work, but that might be more fiddly for me to make.  It only took me 15 minutes to add the rest this way.  Drill hole, use belt sander to open it up, then belt sand a matching nub to fit it, then add that and belt sand to tidy up the length.  I'm not saying its the ultimate solution, I just couldn't think of anything easier at the time while not compromising the spring itself.

No love for the 84s for you?  The appeal for me is that the center hole matches the hole from the 91s so moving parts from 91->84 is actually easier than 91->93.  93s are still the king for toughness and the big boy mods though. 

[bushidomosquito]

Yeah, I've only gotten one request for 84 that I'm doing with ti scales with the integral clip like my Ramblers. I've got my hands full with those Ramblers anyway and I have a lot I want to do with G10 91s when the first run of liners is done. I need to get those down to around $100 over donor cost. I'm learning my lesson about letting my plate get too full.

[Syph007]

I started doing a fit up with this new Philips layer on a cadet with scissors.  Brass liners and hard anodized black scales.











It's looking pretty so far, and I'm still loving the brass.  It took me ages to get those liners made up as I had to create new routing templates for the 84mm size, but they did turn out nice at least so the effort was warranted.

That old 91mm Philips/mag spring never looked so good.  The nice thing about old metal is that its still new on the inside.  Vic steel takes a nice polish.

Cheers!

[Gareth]

Not sure if you've seen it or not but on the old SOSAK site Scibeer did a mod on an phillips. Not sure all the details but there were lots of pics. Maybe of use. I will be contacting you in the near future for a a Cadet with that mod plus the 93 awl and 91 scissors. Work out all the bugs cause I can't wait.

I'll have to take a look.  The only mod I've seen so far with a philips on a cadet was this one.

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=1128

Getting the philips on the bigger 93mm frame works no problem, but on the 84mm it's much trickier.

Here's the link to Scibeer's 84mm special including Phillips screwdriver. http://www.sosakonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=220&Itemid=35

Great looking mod BTW Syph.

[Syph007]

Not sure if you've seen it or not but on the old SOSAK site Scibeer did a mod on an phillips. Not sure all the details but there were lots of pics. Maybe of use. I will be contacting you in the near future for a a Cadet with that mod plus the 93 awl and 91 scissors. Work out all the bugs cause I can't wait.

I'll have to take a look.  The only mod I've seen so far with a philips on a cadet was this one.

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=1128

Getting the philips on the bigger 93mm frame works no problem, but on the 84mm it's much trickier.

Here's the link to Scibeer's 84mm special including Phillips screwdriver. http://www.sosakonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=220&Itemid=35

Great looking mod BTW Syph.

Oh awesome thanks for the link. 

[ICanFixThat]

She sure looks nice with brass liners!   

The Scibeer mod looks really good too.  Looks like he end up with more material for a stronger driver. The magnifier must be slightly shorter, or is there another reason?

[nuphoria]

This latest experiment is gonna be great

As for that Scibeer link - been a while since I've seen it - genius