84mm Alox Cybertool w/ 91mm scissors (WIP) (Pic heavy)

Glynn · **on:** February 07, 2012, 12:14:52 AM

First of all, my apologies for the delay, I know I said I'd get these posted weeks ago, but I've been waaay too busy with other things, I've hardly had time to read posts on here, much less work on this or get pics posted. I also need to spend some time figuring out how to take good pics of shiny things in terrible lighting, but that's for some other day. You'll just have to make do with these for now.

Here are a few pics to start with:

First, the cybertool. It's angled downward just a bit when it's closed, not by much, just to keep it from sticking out above the rest of the knife.

I cut a section of the liners out to fit.

In some of the pics it looks like the bit sticks out past the knife, but as you can see here, it does stick out a little, but not past the end of the knife. I'll probably remake the wood spacer to stick up and partially cover the tip of the bit, to keep it from catching on anything in my pocket. Also, the bit driver actually rests on the liners, not the wood spacer, so you could remove the bit and carry it that way, though it's not as easy to open, since there isn't much sticking above to grab onto. There's plenty of space inside to put the bits, just haven't figured out exactly how I want to do that; either making a bit holder that fits or just dropping them in loose. If anyone has any ideas for this, please say something!

I took the backsprings from a couple recruits and a cadet. There are basically 2 sizes, a thicker and a thinner one(2.3mm and 1.9mm, I think.. These numbers are all from memory, so I could be off a bit). For the cybertool, I used 2 of the smaller ones(2x1.9mm), along with a brass liner(0.8mm) cut down to the size of a backspring, which matches the thickness of the cybertool(4.6mm) perfectly.

A couple extra backsprings in the pic above, for comparison, to see how much I filed off. Also, as you can see, there are small variations in the backsprings between models, but it's mostly how long the bases on each side of the spring are, which really doesn't matter for this, since the cybertool rests on the back part anyway, it doesn't matter how far towards the center the base extends.

This is actually 2 mods in one, in a way. Converting the cybertool bit driver to fit the 84mm frame, and also, since I was doing some filing on springs anyway(and drilling holes, explained later), I decided to cut down a 91mm scissors as well.

Since the 91mm scissors is too long, I had to drill a new hole.

And, file it down.

Since filing it down the back side of the scissors to match and allow it to open completely would have left a very thin area of metal left, I had to cut a notch in the spring and the scissors. This has the side effect of removing any snap to the scissors, since there's barely enough room. It stays open quite nicely, and (rather loosely, though it works) stays closed; but no snap at all.

(terrible pic, all I have atm of the spring comparison, sorry

)

A couple things on the scissors:
1. I added a bit of wood so the scissors handle will close properly when folding it, though it doesn't stay in place, sticking wood to the steel backsprings isn't working with any of the glues I have. I might change the wood spacer on the other side to fill the inside of the scissors layer.

2. The backspring is the thicker of the two, 2.3mm, I think. However, the scissors is closer to 2.5mm, so it doesn't fit as well as I would like. I guess I could use two thinner springs(2x1.9mm) and a spacer/washer on the scissors to match.

Again, any ideas on either of these would be appreciated.

A few other random thoughts:

Since the cybertool uses a 2.5mm pin, it's too loose on the smaller(2.2mm)pin that the 84mm frame uses. So, on the larger side of the knife, I drilled the hole in the scissors, liners, and scales out to 2.5mm.

For the last layer, I could use pretty much any of the standard combination of knife/something else if I wanted to drill one out, but what I'm using atm is a small blade from a 91mm for the 2.5mm side, and the nail file from the cadet for the 2.2mm side, along with a couple brass spacers/washers. This also has the added bonus of easily accessible nail nicks. Some combinations are tough to reach behind the bit driver. Still working on exact details on this layer yet, but I'm liking the small blade / nail file combo, I don't think I'll miss the large blade, since I mostly use the small blade on my current EDC.

This is still very much a work in progress, I still need to work on washers, wood backstops( maybe use metal? Just don't have anything thick enough atm. ), bit holder of some kind, shining things up, removing scratches, tool marks, etc., but if I peened it right now, it would be totally usable, just not as polished as it deserves. Also I'd love to finish this off with some other color (maybe blue/purple/teal/green) scales, but that's not in the budget atm.

Anyway, questions/comments/ideas are all greatly appreciated. If you don't like something, or would like to see something changed, speak up!

dodge_911 · **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2012, 12:58:59 AM

Wow, dude, that is soooooooooooo nice!

That's showing some real craftsmanship there, mate!

Syph007 · **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2012, 03:02:08 AM

Bravo! That's the first time Ive seen 91mm scissors put on the 84mm frame! I love it!

tattoosteve99 · **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2012, 03:05:49 AM

That might work on all 84s if we were to smooth the end rounded? Superb mod. Like the wood added.

ironraven · **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2012, 03:17:21 AM

*blinks, stares, blinks some more*

Ambitious. Audacious. Awesome.

What are you using for wood?

Maybe keep the spacer for the scissors set up to flip out, and use it as a place to stash tweezers and toothpick, maybe a pin or two, but it would be probably a two piece job that was then glued together. Awfully thin to try to work with, though, I might even try to find something like some solid nylon instead.

Glynn · **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2012, 07:09:34 AM

Quote from: tattoosteve99 on February 07, 2012, 03:05:49 AM

That might work on all 84s if we were to smooth the end rounded? Superb mod. Like the wood added.

Smooth what end where?

The back end of the scissors? Biggest problem is, the old hole is right in the center, and the backspring catches unless the hole's edges are smoothed down as well, close to what I have.

Quote from: ironraven on February 07, 2012, 03:17:21 AM

*blinks, stares, blinks some more*

Ambitious. Audacious. Awesome.

What are you using for wood?

Maybe keep the spacer for the scissors set up to flip out, and use it as a place to stash tweezers and toothpick, maybe a pin or two, but it would be probably a two piece job that was then glued together. Awfully thin to try to work with, though, I might even try to find something like some solid nylon instead.

Thanks!
I'm using bloodwood, I have a ton of it I got when I was making scales for a previous mod, and it's super hard and super durable, you can take a hammer to it and hardly make a dent, but a saw and a file work nicely; it drills fairly easily, though sandpaper doesn't work so well. It's fairly easy to make quick shapes with, when I'm trying something. Also the thickest metal I have atm is 1mm brass sheet, and it's a pain to make tons of layers to make a more solid piece.

Tweezers/toothpick/pins and maybe a pen would be totally doable, would give a good place to keep them in an alox knife, too! Hmm, have to see if I can fit it all in there.

edcgear · **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2012, 09:41:32 AM

Great man

nuphoria · **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2012, 11:44:35 AM

Brilliant idea.... very useful pics too

It's so nice to see more 84mm mod ideas - just a shame that the scissors are so hard to come by.

Reinier · **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2012, 12:17:14 PM

Excellent!!! I am not sure about the scissors though (no snap seems weird to me). The wooden parts are a nice touch

WWW · **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2012, 12:16:45 AM

Sweet mod man!! I like the idea of the wood to make the scissors close, I can wait to see it done!!!

Glynn · **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2012, 06:19:52 PM

Time for an update!

I wasn't at all happy with how the scissors turned out, opening and closing it wasn't working very well, and lack of snap was terrible. So I scrapped it and started over. It turns out some of the assumptions I made were due to a lack of precision. Drilling the hole closer to the previous hole, with only about 1mm between them, gave me enough space to make this work much better, allowing me to:
1. Properly round the back end off, since there's no hole in the way, so opening and closing work a lot smoother.

2. Leave the backspring with no notches, much easier to do, since you only have to file a little curve for the scissors handle. This allows more force on the back edge of the tool, meaning the scissors snap is excellent now!

I still had to file a bit off the spine of the scissors to allow it to open fully, but there's still enough metal there I'm not worried about breaking it. Also, the tip of the scissors sits very close to the end of the knife, but again, JUST enough room to work.

A few other thoughts:
I combined the wood into a single piece that fills the inside of the layer, it might add a tiny bit of weight, but not a big deal, works much better that way, no worries about finding glue that will work. Unfortunately, I see no way to add tweezers/toothpick/pen or anything else to this layer, there's really not enough room to work with here, but that's what other layers are for, I'll fit at least some of them in, somehow.

Since the scissors is slightly thicker than the backspring, I'm making another spacer for this layer, same shape as the backspring, out of .016" brass. I'm going to use a washer on each side of the scissors, just waiting for the mailman to bring my .005" brass foil/sheet. I know there's a washer shown in the pic, but it's way too thick and was just for testing purposes.

To make this as simple a conversion as possible, you COULD do this without spacers/washers, but the scissors is slightly thicker than the backspring, and I don't know how well it would work once it was assembled/peened. The rivet/screw on the scissors scrapes against the liner, for one thing. I suppose you could cut the liner down a bit, and it might work, but I'll leave that for someone else, I'm not going to try it on this one, at least. Also, it might be possible to round the backspring by the scissors handle enough that you it would close without needing the wood filler, but again, I'll leave that for someone else to try.

The parts for this layer all still need finishing, cutting/filing/sanding down to the right dimensions, but that's all waiting on getting the washers and seeing if I need to adjust anything else.

Syph007 · **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2012, 06:36:39 PM

Hey nice to see you post an update on this. Your original post was the inspiration for my current mod of getting 91mm scissors on an 84 mm cadet.

What I found was like you hole drilling in the scissors was key. I have about 10 of the older style 91mm scissor springs (non hook type) and they can actually be cut to fit the 84 mm frame perfectly. I was blown away when I figured that out. I'm not quite done, just proved to myself it works, but I will update with pix to show what I did. Of course since the 91mm spring has larger holes I had to drill out all the components to use larger pivots, but it was the best compromise I could come up with. Im working on making up a bunch of HA alox cadets with scissors.

Anyways, I LOVE to see how others tackle similar problems, so thanks for posting!

Glynn · **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2012, 07:02:41 PM

Quote from: Syph007 on March 23, 2012, 06:36:39 PM

What I found was like you hole drilling in the scissors was key. I have about 10 of the older style 91mm scissor springs (non hook type) and they can actually be cut to fit the 84 mm frame perfectly. I was blown away when I figured that out. I'm not quite done, just proved to myself it works, but I will update with pix to show what I did.

Now I'm going to have to dig through my parts boxes and see if I can find any of those older 91mm scissors springs you're talking about.

Making this work on the smaller springs I'm currently using is a lot of busywork/trouble/(fun!), but having a spring that would eliminate most of that would be awesome, though I guess the added problem of having to drill all the tools out for the larger holes/pins might offset that. Be nice to find some thin brass/copper/something tubes to resize the holes, maybe just some rolled up brass sheet of the right thickness would work..
Anyway, pics please!

Syph007 · **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2012, 07:05:15 PM

Quote from: Glynn on March 23, 2012, 07:02:41 PM

Quote from: Syph007 on March 23, 2012, 06:36:39 PM
What I found was like you hole drilling in the scissors was key. I have about 10 of the older style 91mm scissor springs (non hook type) and they can actually be cut to fit the 84 mm frame perfectly. I was blown away when I figured that out. I'm not quite done, just proved to myself it works, but I will update with pix to show what I did.

Now I'm going to have to dig through my parts boxes and see if I can find any of those older 91mm scissors springs you're talking about.
Making this work on the smaller springs I'm currently using is a lot of busywork/trouble/(fun!), but having a spring that would eliminate most of that would be awesome, though I guess the added problem of having to drill all the tools out for the larger holes/pins might offset that. Be nice to find some thin brass/copper/something tubes to resize the holes, maybe just some rolled up brass sheet of the right thickness would work.. Anyway, pics please!

Yep you could make a bushing.. or fill the hole with soft metal like brass and redrill a hole.. OH actually you know what might work, fill it with JB weld (or maybe epoxy, but jb weld is better with metal) then redrill. Ive used that to repair the inside of bad scale drill jobs and it worked out well. The center pin doenst even move on that pivot so I bet that would work. Just clamp on another backspring to use as a drill guide to make sure the hole lines up!

Neil · **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2012, 08:27:34 PM

This is some serious hard work you've put in

Well done.

I think the CT spacer would look better in metal than wood. That's personal though and there seem to be plenty digging the wood

Glynn · **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2012, 08:58:53 PM

Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 08:27:34 PM

I think the CT spacer would look better in metal than wood. That's personal though and there seem to be plenty digging the wood

Thanks!

I agree it would look better in metal, though the right combination of wood and metal has it's place as well. It's just faster (at least with my current tools) to make prototype pieces from wood, and I don't have any type of metal on hand thicker than 0.8mm brass sheet, unless I start cutting up SAK backsprings or something. For now, the wood is just temporary to make it fit and balance the spring out, though I am still trying to work out some kind of bit holder or other filler. I mostly don't use that many different bits, and could probably get away with the one in the driver and one more in a holder, which probably leaves room for T&T and maybe a pen, if I can fit it all in somehow.. Would be nice if there was a space to actually HOLD the pen while using it too; like on the 91mm, the pen fit very well under the scissors hook, pretty much turning the whole knife into a pen, but no hook on here means that's not an option.

Also, as much as I use a usb flash drive, I might add another layer to this, ~3mm thick, to hold a verbatim tuff 'n' tiny. That would only fill half a layer though, so I'd have room for... something. Not sure what to fill it with, either T&T/pen/extra bit that just won't fit under the cybertool, or something else completely: maybe an LED and coin cell battery, or something else.

Still very much a WIP, and I'll try to update a little more often than I have been, though no promises.

Gareth · **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2012, 10:33:06 PM

Simply superb work Glynn.

Neil · **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2012, 10:34:01 PM

Rather than sheets of brass perhaps a lump of aluminium could be fashioned to fit. Easy to work with and you're more likely to have a scrap bit of aluminium than scrap brass kicking around. Old cookware, hard drive enclosures, ladder rungs* It'd match with the scales as well

* can make you unpopular if ladder is still used.

Santos · **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2012, 07:09:48 AM

Also dont forget you can sandwich layers of thin sheet metal to make bigger pieces and they are easier to cut... you just need lots

This is so awesome, but extremely labour intensive, but it goes to show that any of the other 91mm tools are possible candidates. Someone is coing to decide that their 91mm metal saw, fish scaler or pliers are simply to big and need to scale it into a 84mm package

richs2891 · **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2012, 11:31:40 AM

That some amazing work there, have to agree while I like the wood, I wonder if either brass or aluminium would give it a more finished polished factory look ?
OR even layered carbon fibre so could have space for tooth pick and tweezers from a 58mm sak ?

Just thoughts

Richard

Syph007 · **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2012, 12:35:07 PM

I'd go with a piece of hardened 6061 aluminum or titanium, or 12 GA stainless is already the right thickness at 0.105 inches thick.

But prototyping with wood makes alot of sense since it's cheap and easy to work with. I kind of really like the idea actually for prototyping. I need to make a cybertool bit holder for my 93mm alox mod and I think wood would work for a quick mock up, then I can pin it to some metal and mill that prototype shape in metal using the wood as a guide.

tattoosteve99 · **Reply #21 on:** March 25, 2012, 07:21:06 AM

Or you could use a old broke blade. I've done this more than once and that way it's already a perfect fit (for the stop only).

Syph007 · **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2012, 08:04:27 PM

Quote from: Glynn on March 23, 2012, 07:02:41 PM

Quote from: Syph007 on March 23, 2012, 06:36:39 PM
What I found was like you hole drilling in the scissors was key. I have about 10 of the older style 91mm scissor springs (non hook type) and they can actually be cut to fit the 84 mm frame perfectly. I was blown away when I figured that out. I'm not quite done, just proved to myself it works, but I will update with pix to show what I did.

Now I'm going to have to dig through my parts boxes and see if I can find any of those older 91mm scissors springs you're talking about.
Making this work on the smaller springs I'm currently using is a lot of busywork/trouble/(fun!), but having a spring that would eliminate most of that would be awesome, though I guess the added problem of having to drill all the tools out for the larger holes/pins might offset that. Be nice to find some thin brass/copper/something tubes to resize the holes, maybe just some rolled up brass sheet of the right thickness would work..
Anyway, pics please!

Here you go Glynn. I was going to wait until my mod was done to post these, but they are relevant to your thread since we both have the same goal of getting 91mm scissors on an 84mm frame.

This one is for my 84mm hard anodized urban pioneer with scissors. So it will have awl/blade - scissors - openers with brass liners and hard anodized black scales. It was a challenge mod for me to see if it was possible.

This is a rough fit up to prove it works, I still need to sand/polish/buff but it absolutely works. The 84mm spring I made is from a single 91mm spring. It's possible to cut it better than I did to have more spring contact between the rest and spring, but this one works fine, I'm just being picky for the next one I make. The great thing about using a scissor spring is its the perfect thickness for scissors!

Cheers, and keep on modding and posting your work too please, love to see it!

Glynn · **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2012, 09:19:09 PM

Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 10:34:01 PM

Rather than sheets of brass perhaps a lump of aluminium could be fashioned to fit. Easy to work with and you're more likely to have a scrap bit of aluminium than scrap brass kicking around. Old cookware, hard drive enclosures, ladder rungs* It'd match with the scales as well

* can make you unpopular if ladder is still used.

There's a 40 foot aluminum ladder out back, I guess I could try.. Where's the best metal: from near the top of the ladder, the bottom, or right out of the middle? OR.. maybe I could use the whole thing! All new 12192mm SAK with a ladder layer! Also, the gaps are big enough you could fit all sorts of other tools in the extra spaces! The ultimate 2 person EDC? If I work at it, should be done by next Sunday.

Quote from: Santos on March 24, 2012, 07:09:48 AM

This is so awesome, but extremely labour intensive, but it goes to show that any of the other 91mm tools are possible candidates. Someone is coing to decide that their 91mm metal saw, fish scaler or pliers are simply to big and need to scale it into a 84mm package

Metal file/saw is probably possible, since the size is about right, if you can get a hole drilled through it, I'm guessing it's hardened more than some of the other tools?
Fish scaler very likely to work as well, though I don't have one sitting around atm, so I can't compare. Same with the wood saw.
Pliers though.. I doubt it. It's longer than the scissors by 4-5mm, at least, and the scissors barely fits. You could probably round the tip off saving a few mm, but I don't think even that would be enough. I think pliers will have to stay on the 91mm+ frames.

Quote from: Syph007 on March 25, 2012, 08:04:27 PM

Here you go Glynn. I was going to wait until my mod was done to post these, but they are relevant to your thread since we both have the same goal of getting 91mm scissors on an 84mm frame.

Thanks! I do appreciate it. It's nice to have some comparison to work with; alternate ways of doing things. And, it's good for anyone else trying the same thing, the more pics the better!

ICanFixThat · **Reply #24 on:** May 02, 2012, 03:38:49 PM

Wow! I missed this thread, 91mm Scissors and Cyber Bit-Driver in 84mm

That's Amazing!

Jake · **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2014, 06:17:57 PM

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I'm probably going to attempt this 91mm scissor conversion, and I wanted to get it right on the first try. I firgure its better to keep the discussion in one thread if people are searching for info on this mod. (like I have been)

I'm hoping that someone can sanity check my plan before I start grinding.

My plan is to grind the tang 7.5mm wide (similar to a Cadet nail file). This means that it should work with a standard 84mm knife layer backspring (with a custom rest/spacer at the other end); though I still have to figure out what to do about thickness, as the scissors are 0.15mm thicker than a sissors layer.

Since I want to keep the griding as simple as possible, so my plan is to drill the new hole (carbide bit) slightly off-center from the original hole, so that after grinding a straight bottom edge, the new hole will be centered in the 7.5mm tang. Then, grind the notch so that doesn't interfere with the backspring when opened.

I'm probably going to use a dremel & grinding wheel to do the grinding and finish with a diamond burr. I have considered putting the grinding wheel bit in the mill and trying to take small passes with it to insure a straight edge grind-- but I'm not sure how well this would work.

Thanks for any suggestions.