How much torque do you need for drilling steel?

[clickstop]

Hey guys! Relatively new here, but I'm a big fan of modding and I've been lurking this forum for a while. I had a spare Esquire and a Style CS that I've been planning to mod but my drill doesn't seem to be powerful enough to make any holes in the tools. What would you guys recommend for someone who doesn't have access to a drill press? I'm currently using a 14.4 volt drill and titanium bits, but they haven't even dented the metal. Thanks in advance!

[MultiMat]

I am no expert on this topic mate BUT most multitools & knives have hardened steels which can be VERY tricky to drill with a standard drill & drill bits. What you need is carbide tipped drill bits , which only work at slow speeds , at high speeds they break. So ideally you would use the carbide tips + a drill press  , good luck mate 

[Syph007]

Yep, it's not the torque that matters since you can drill with a dremel and that is a high rpm tool with very little torque.  You need carbide drill bits to make any headway on hardened steel, and if you do, use cutting oil, or wd40 or mineral oil etc.  A drill press is pretty much needed unless you have a very steady hand, carbide bits are very fragile and snap off quite readily with any lateral force.

[AimlessWanderer]

If the drill bit is still spinning, torque isn't the problem. As MultiMat says you need carbide bits to cut hardened materials, but then need low speeds and a drill press not only to generate the down force but avoid lateral forces which would break the drill. You also need some coolant to prevent the bit and work piece overheating, particularly if using HSS bits

EDIT: Sounds like we're all on the same page here 

[clickstop]

Thanks for all the replies guys! I have a dremel 200, but the lowest speed is only 15,000 rpm. Too fast? I won't be getting a drill press anytime soon, but if I can use a Dremel for the job I'd be more than willing to save up for a drill press stand 

[jzmtl]

It might work but don't expect the carbide bit to last more than a hole or two. Even my cheap drill press make chips in carbide bit.

[Syph007]

When I took apart a juice I was able to drill out the rivets with a HSS center drill, you might get that to work.  You would need to file the top dome of the rivet a bit to make a flat spot if you arent using a drill press.  And use a punch to make a start hole, that's the best advice I got.   

Center drill

[tattoosteve99]

Starting the hole with a center drill and as syph says knock a center mark in it. As for the holes in the tool itself, I use a 2 or 4 flute carbide endmill. I have drilled over 30 holes so far with one bit and its still going strong, all be it I use a drill press.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Another alternative is a Dremel drill press attachment.  It's basically a bracket on a stand that you mount your Dermal tool in, then pull the lever like you would with a standard drill press. I think they still make them anyway. It's worth a look at the very least.

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[clickstop]

Yea I've been looking at drill press attachments for my dremel, definitely a cheaper option to a drill press haha  I guess i'll be going for a dremel on a drill stand for my set-up. Would this work for carbide bits? Or should I just go for cobalt or HSS bits? I don't really wanna spend any money on bits that won't last

[Glynn]

I use the dremel drill press attachment. It's not as precise as an actual drill press, but it works, as long as you don't put too much pressure on it. It helped a lot, precision-wise, after I went over the whole thing tightening all the set screws and such, almost to the point where it won't slide. I've been using carbide bits with it, but they do snap a lot, little pieces breaking off almost constantly, and breaking a bit every 2-3 holes I drill. I've also used a cordless dremel in it if I want to go really slow, it's rated at 5000 rpm for the slowest, but a little pressure and it drops to half or less of that. Not as much power as the corded one, but in this case, a good thing.

[tattoosteve99]

I have a dremel press vise. I don't like it. The dremel has no power even on high. And finding a bit that would work is another problem.

[clickstop]

Hmm... well this is troubling indeed. I'll probably still go with the Dremel Stand, since it's probably the cheapest option. Anyone have any experience with cobalt bits?

[jzmtl]

Yea I've been looking at drill press attachments for my dremel, definitely a cheaper option to a drill press haha  I guess i'll be going for a dremel on a drill stand for my set-up. Would this work for carbide bits? Or should I just go for cobalt or HSS bits? I don't really wanna spend any money on bits that won't last

You'd have to buy a chuck for it too since the collet only accept fixed sized shank, might as well buy a cheap drill press that's on sale.

Cobalt and HSS will never work on hardened tools, just not hard enough.

[clickstop]

Yea I've been looking at drill press attachments for my dremel, definitely a cheaper option to a drill press haha  I guess i'll be going for a dremel on a drill stand for my set-up. Would this work for carbide bits? Or should I just go for cobalt or HSS bits? I don't really wanna spend any money on bits that won't last

You'd have to buy a chuck for it too since the collet only accept fixed sized shank, might as well buy a cheap drill press that's on sale.

Cobalt and HSS will never work on hardened tools, just not hard enough.

Finally, one thing I actually do have! I tempted to get a drill press, but I can't really buy that on a student budget. I'll keep my eyes open though, thanks for the advice!

[Syph007]

Yea I've been looking at drill press attachments for my dremel, definitely a cheaper option to a drill press haha  I guess i'll be going for a dremel on a drill stand for my set-up. Would this work for carbide bits? Or should I just go for cobalt or HSS bits? I don't really wanna spend any money on bits that won't last

You'd have to buy a chuck for it too since the collet only accept fixed sized shank, might as well buy a cheap drill press that's on sale.

Cobalt and HSS will never work on hardened tools, just not hard enough.

Yup, Im rocking a canadian tire on sale drill press for $80.  Still going strong!

[ironraven]

on a student budget.

Does your school have a machine shop?

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on a student budget.

Does your school have a machine shop?

No  We have a 3-D printer and laser engraver, and yet we don't have a drill press lmao. I think the local robotics team does have one though, so that's an option... I got my hands on a Dremel stand from a friend though, so I might give that a shot first.

[CENTURION]

Whee, a thread I can be helpful in! 
Machinist-in-training at your service!

As many others have said, when working with hardened material, carbide is the way to go.
High RPM is good for carbide, as it can handle a lot of heat.
Cutting oil/lubricant can be used, the thing you want to keep in mind is that you don't want to thermal-shock the bit (Take it from very hot, to very cool with oil), as that will crack it, or at the very least, immensely shorten it's life.

For reference, your cutting speed can bet determined by some simple equations:

RPM = (CSx3.82)/D
"CS" is the cutting speed of your material, I know for sure, but I would say a hardened steel would be somewhere around 20.

"D" is the diameter of your cutting tool (in inches).

Now since you'll be working with carbide, you multiply the end result of that equation by 3, and that should give you your recommended RPM.


Now I should note, these calculations are generally for use with a mill, lathe, or drill press, you may have to adjust speed according to feel when it comes to a Dremel.

In general, cranking up your RPM and feeding the bit into the material slower can't really hurt.

on a student budget.

Does your school have a machine shop?

No  We have a 3-D printer and laser engraver, and yet we don't have a drill press lmao. I think the local robotics team does have one though, so that's an option... I got my hands on a Dremel stand from a friend though, so I might give that a shot first.

I have to ask, would this happen to be a FIRST robotics team?

In any case, finding somebody with a real drill press and/or access to a full machine shop would probably be your best bet here. The Dremel can work, but it will be slow-going.

[clickstop]

Whee, a thread I can be helpful in! 
Machinist-in-training at your service!

As many others have said, when working with hardened material, carbide is the way to go.
High RPM is good for carbide, as it can handle a lot of heat.
Cutting oil/lubricant can be used, the thing you want to keep in mind is that you don't want to thermal-shock the bit (Take it from very hot, to very cool with oil), as that will crack it, or at the very least, immensely shorten it's life.

For reference, your cutting speed can bet determined by some simple equations:

RPM = (CSx3.82)/D
"CS" is the cutting speed of your material, I know for sure, but I would say a hardened steel would be somewhere around 20.

"D" is the diameter of your cutting tool (in inches).

Now since you'll be working with carbide, you multiply the end result of that equation by 3, and that should give you your recommended RPM.


Now I should note, these calculations are generally for use with a mill, lathe, or drill press, you may have to adjust speed according to feel when it comes to a Dremel.

In general, cranking up your RPM and feeding the bit into the material slower can't really hurt.

on a student budget.

Does your school have a machine shop?

No  We have a 3-D printer and laser engraver, and yet we don't have a drill press lmao. I think the local robotics team does have one though, so that's an option... I got my hands on a Dremel stand from a friend though, so I might give that a shot first.

I have to ask, would this happen to be a FIRST robotics team?

In any case, finding somebody with a real drill press and/or access to a full machine shop would probably be your best bet here. The Dremel can work, but it will be slow-going.

Thanks so much for the advice! I'll be shopping for a carbide bit soon, so wish me luck!  And yes, it is! Proud member of 1065 Moose from Florida. We actually had regionals today.

[CENTURION]

Thanks so much for the advice! I'll be shopping for a carbide bit soon, so wish me luck!  And yes, it is! Proud member of 1065 Moose from Florida. We actually had regionals today.

You bet! If there are any other questions that come up, feel free to PM me.

I'm a mentor (More of a mentor-in-training really) with team 1306, BadgerBOTS out of Madison, WI.
I always love running into other FIRST-ers! 

[clickstop]

Thanks so much for the advice! I'll be shopping for a carbide bit soon, so wish me luck!  And yes, it is! Proud member of 1065 Moose from Florida. We actually had regionals today.

You bet! If there are any other questions that come up, feel free to PM me.

I'm a mentor (More of a mentor-in-training really) with team 1306, BadgerBOTS out of Madison, WI.
I always love running into other FIRST-ers! 

Thanks I've only been doing First for a couple years, but it's definitely pretty awesome. Nice team by the way I think we actually saw you guys at St. Louis last year...

[Potassium Hydroxide]

Team 1671 here!  We're going to our regional this week.

[clickstop]

Nice! Where at?

[Potassium Hydroxide]

We're going to the Sacramento Regional (it's actually at UC Davis).

It's not as big as some of the other CA regionals.  Last time we went to the Long Beach Regional, a Chilean team was there.

[CENTURION]

Thanks so much for the advice! I'll be shopping for a carbide bit soon, so wish me luck!  And yes, it is! Proud member of 1065 Moose from Florida. We actually had regionals today.

You bet! If there are any other questions that come up, feel free to PM me.

I'm a mentor (More of a mentor-in-training really) with team 1306, BadgerBOTS out of Madison, WI.
I always love running into other FIRST-ers! 

Thanks I've only been doing First for a couple years, but it's definitely pretty awesome. Nice team by the way I think we actually saw you guys at St. Louis last year...

I'm afraid that couldn't have been us, we didn't make it to St. Louis But such is life.
We will be attending the Wisconsin regional next week though!

Team 1671 here!  We're going to our regional this week.

Awesome! Good luck!

[clickstop]

Thanks so much for the advice! I'll be shopping for a carbide bit soon, so wish me luck!  And yes, it is! Proud member of 1065 Moose from Florida. We actually had regionals today.

You bet! If there are any other questions that come up, feel free to PM me.

I'm a mentor (More of a mentor-in-training really) with team 1306, BadgerBOTS out of Madison, WI.
I always love running into other FIRST-ers! 

Thanks I've only been doing First for a couple years, but it's definitely pretty awesome. Nice team by the way I think we actually saw you guys at St. Louis last year...

I'm afraid that couldn't have been us, we didn't make it to St. Louis But such is life.
We will be attending the Wisconsin regional next week though!

Team 1671 here!  We're going to our regional this week.

Awesome! Good luck!

Ah  Hopefully our teams can meet sometime. Good luck on your regionals guys!