Fate of a 9" Friodur

[Lynn LeFey]

A friend of mine was cleaning out a drawer full of old knives and offered me a old 9" kitchen knife. The scales were beginning to rot, but it seemed like REALLY solid steel.

It turned out to be a 9" Friodur (Zwilling J. A. Henckels). These are professional quality chef's knives. And this one had led a hard life. Along with the rotted scales, the blade has a good deal of scratching from what I can only assume is bad sharpening.

I don't think it's likely to ever find its way into my kitchen for everyday use, but I think it might make a fair fixed-blade for outdoor work. I read a thread here about using kitchen knives for field cooking tasks, and think this knife would be a great candidate.

I don't think I'm up to rescaling it, and was just considering wrapping the handle in 550 and call it done. I sort of assume that this would not be the ideal metal for batoning wood (I assume it's too hard/brittle, but I'm not sure).

So, I can't bring myself to throw this thing out, don't have the inclination to bring it back up to kitchen standards, and find 'field beater' something of an inglorious end to this knife's career. But of those options, field work seems at least an 'honest' end.

Any thoughts on the matter?

Here's what we're talking about (caution, this first pic is pretty huge so the detail can be seen)

[Sparky415]

Lynn,
Can I ask you what tools you have available to use?
Maybe a Dremel and a belt sander?

[Lynn LeFey]

I have 'file' and 'sandpaper'.

A dremel would be nice, but alas, no such luck.

I could probably swing getting a sanding wheel if it attaches to an electric drill.

[jzmtl]

Looks like an easy fix. I would refrain from using power equipment if you are not familiar with them, you can screw it up big time before you finish saying "oh sh....", especially with something not meant for the purpose like drill.

As for outdoor use, a 9" chef is likely too big for any cooking you'd do, heck even inside kitchen I find my 9.5" chef too big (unless you have one of those giant cutting boards). It would also be too thin to withstand baton and split efficiently.

[Sparky415]

You don't need anything else 

I think you should re-handle it as its ready to go, nice easy job really

Decide if you want wood, Micarta or something else

Buy the slabs/scales

Glue one side on making sure its a good fit at the bolster/blade end

Run a Drill through the three holes from the metal side through the glued on scale

Glue the other slab on making sure its a good fit at the bolster/blade end

Run the drill  back through the holes and glue in some brass pins

File and rub down scales to fit

Did that make any sense? 

PS take lots of pictures 
 

[Lynn LeFey]

Sparky, makes perfect sense.

Also, I'm very familiar with power tools in general, just don't have a dremel, and i don't think I can swing one on the excuse of fixing a rusted kitchen knife.

Also, I use a 10" Forschner (Victorinox) as my main kitchen knife. I'd say between it does 90% of the work in my kitchen. My hubby is sort of by-necessity a vegetarian, and I find the longer blade pretty much necessary for cabbage, butternut squash, etc.

And, finally, this is not a thin blade by any imagining. It's over 1/4" thick at the base, slowly tapering toward the point. I'm certain I could baton with it, but not sure the edge side would survive it.

[Sparky415]

You only need a drill of some kind to do this 

Do it up nice for the kitchen with Walnut and brass pins or some bright Micarta 

Oh and you could try laying a sheet of 220 sandpaper/emery cloth/'wet an dry' on a telephone directory and gently sand the blade it should remove the scratches then move on to something finer

Remember to tape up the blade before working on the handle  and Wear goggles an a mask when you are sanding/drilling 

[Lynn LeFey]

Do you have a recommendation for sanding the handle? The scaling of the rust is pretty heavy here, and I've never used sanding wheels.

[Sparky415]

Do you have a recommendation for sanding the handle? The scaling of the rust is pretty heavy here, and I've never used sanding wheels.

That's not heavy rust    (have you seen the rubbish I buy at carboot sales?)

Little sanding wheels tend to dig shallow holes in the metal

Try holding a strip of sand paper on a file or something flat and rub the handle down (tell me if there's a problem with the names of tools/materials) try not to round the edges over
If you use 80 grit it will leave a good surface for the glue to stick to 

[Steinar]

FYI: I can't say anything about your knife, but kitchen cutlery is generally not very hard steel (making a borderline insane exception for the more extreme Japanese examples of extreme brittleness and perfection). Especially the German style knives are usually built to handle hard work and a certain degree of abuse (stiff, thick blade, made for a push cut (as opposed to pull)), and also most owners have no idea how to sharpen them, so steel with high abrasive resistance would be too hard to sharpen anyway.

[Sparky415]

I have loads of bits an pieces and part finished jobs in my garage, so I thought I would have a go at doing the same job as you Lynn 

From my project box a Sabatier knife with some deep scratches running parallel to the edge where some one had tried their hand at sharpening 



I used a belt sander/linisher to change the shape of the tip
Then polished out most of the scratches using various grits



Then removed the handles..... bugger the holes are huge and two sizes 



Then looked around for some micarta......Sock micarta (all socks were disinfected before use  )
If you can find something the right thickness it will save you a lot of work later
Cleaned and scratched the handle with some 80 grit, mixed up some araldite (2 part epoxy glue)




Drilled through from the metal side



Glued on the second side, then drilled through the existing holes, did some sanding (you can use a file but I'm impatient)



More sanding



Glued in the 'pins'



Any questions/suggestions so far? 

[Lynn LeFey]

Steiner, thanks for that. Oh... the things I don't know about kitchen cutlery could probably fill volumes.

Sparky... thanks very much for the pictorial. I'm right there with you.

And... almost motivated enough to start.

Where do you acquire micarta?

It occurred to me while thinking about this, that this would actually be the second knife handle I did. I took a broken kitchen knife years back, and (using a friend's tools workshop) turned it into an athame with ebony handles. The shaping was done with pneumatic grinder freehand. I think I got a pretty good shape. By the way... yes, actual ebony. That small amount cost (if I remember) something like $30.

[Steinar]

That's a good looking knife!  I think you should go for it!

I have a small Sabatier myself with a crack in the handle these pictures are making me think about what I should do with. Hm...

Not surprised over the price of ebony, too good looking and hard, and not enough to go around.  I have a single knife with ebony scales, and it's really beautiful. Anyone know of a good place with information about whether I can buy a slabs of a given species of wood in good conscience? I'm thinking of stuff like over-exploitation and extinction. Not much wood in a knife handle, but it still is fuel for the trade in the given wood.

[Sparky415]

Steinar
  buy some micarta (brighter than mine    )


Lynn,
You tricked me in to thinking you were a beginner, nice job 

I have been making mine but you can buy it online, one of the 'Moders' should be able to point you in the right direction  (or look for knife making supplys)

Mine looks like this now, the blade still needs some work and the handle needs a tidy and a polish

[Steinar]

Steinar
  buy some micarta (brighter than mine    )

I'm thinking of trying thermowood. It sounds like it has almost ideal properties for knife handles, and has no nasty chemical additions.

The explanation from one of several companies selling the stuff: http://www.uniwood.no/hva-er-termotre_2 (The PDF at the bottom of the page is in English.)

[Sparky415]

Steinar
  buy some micarta (brighter than mine    )

I'm thinking of trying thermowood. It sounds like it has almost ideal properties for knife handles, and has no nasty chemical additions.

The explanation from one of several companies selling the stuff: http://www.uniwood.no/hva-er-termotre_2 (The PDF at the bottom of the page is in English.)

Ooh Interesting 

[Lynn LeFey]

Well, I borrowed a dremel from a friend, and started working on the knife. I got a good start on removing the rust from the handle, and started trying to remove the scratches from the blade ... when the sanding head flew off the tool... off my deck... into leaf clutter... 

The work on the blade looked GREAT out in direct sunlight. Bringing it inside, it looks a little overly aggressive.

Well... so... I guess I'm off to Home Depot and won't get much else done today. However, some forward progress.

[sawman]

Great project     I cant wait to see this one finished 

[Sparky415]

 

Did you decide what to re-handle it with yet?

[Lynn LeFey]

Well... crap.

I was most of the way through typing the response to this, and apparently the network card on my laptop died. That really sucks.

Anyway, the handle of the knife has a slight bend in it, so that one handle scale will need to be convex, and one concave. Yay.

So, I'm thinking maybe a softer plastic might work well, just let the material conform to the bend by the force of the screws holding the scales on. Otherwise, shaping the scales to match that curve will just suck.

[Sparky415]

Have you tried to flatten it out a bit?

I would lay it on a flat solid piece of wood, (get a friend to hold the blade end  ) Get a bit of 1” x 1” wood, hold it in the middle of the handle and give it a wack 

[Lynn LeFey]

I'll consider that. I've got other things I'm up to today, so no tinkering.

[Sparky415]

           






 

[Lynn LeFey]

I know, I know...

(sigh)

I don't have a good work space, so I have to take my stuff out onto our deck to work, and I have terrible seasonal allergies. I was outside for 3 hours on Sunday, and think I managed to get a sinus infection. I HATE outside.

And, if those lame-ass excused don't work, give me a few hours to think up some more.

Thanks, Sparky, for lighting a fire under my butt.

[Sparky415]

I know, I know...

(sigh)

I don't have a good work space, so I have to take my stuff out onto our deck to work, and I have terrible seasonal allergies. I was outside for 3 hours on Sunday, and think I managed to get a sinus infection. I HATE outside.

And, if those lame-ass excused don't work, give me a few hours to think up some more.

Thanks, Sparky, for lighting a fire under my butt.

Its normally just me that I set alight 

Just ignore me I'm bored and not in the right mood to tidy my own garage..... guess I need a beer    and I hope you are feeling better soon 

Have you any thoughts on material for the new scales?

 

[Sparky415]

Lynn,
I just copied this link from another thread here, all kinds of handle materials 

http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=40_218

[bushidomosquito]

If you haven't settled on a handle material yet I have some bloodwood or paduk that I'll donate to the cause. If you can give me the dimensions you need I'll cut it and send you a pair of scales. 

[Lynn LeFey]

Wow, awesome, and very kind of you.

I'll PM the info after dinner this evening.

[Lynn LeFey]

I took the knife out on the deck today, and somewhat tentatively whacked it with a hammer to see about straightening the slight bend in the handle. After two more hits... I think it's pretty much dead on straight.

Freaky.

Somehow I thought this was way more high-tech that 'beat it with a hammer', but then that pretty well describes the act of forging right there so...

[Spork, Lord of Lime Jello!]

Many knives have annealed tangs so it is easy to straighten them.