US Military, I hear two stories

[Anthony]

I know quite a few of you on here have served and I'd like your input.  How demanding was the initial training?  How many of the guys you were with drop out?  Did anyone bust out laughing when a drill seargent went crazy 1" from a guys face?  How long is the generic training before you get to apply for specific jobs?

The other night I spent a long time watching videos of training on Youtube, but none of it looked too crazy...and lots of the kids were goofing off.  Then you get people saying it's intense hell and pain...then others who say it's easier than it once was years ago..

So I'm guessing it's a bit of all of the above

[Tsquare]

     It really depends on the training instructor and the branch of service.  The Marines probably have the most physically demanding but hey that is why they are the Marines.  The Army and Navy are middle of the road and the Air Force is the easiest.  The Air Force has the shortest basic training or at least it used to.  The training for specific jobs such as paratrooper or green beret or pararescue demand much more physical training than the initial training.

[ducktapehero]

I know in the Army it depends on your MOS(basically your job). Most Army recruits go to 8 weeks of basic training. However, Infantry goes for IIRC 13 or 14 weeks and is, of course, more physically demanding.

HOOAH!!!!


I'm editing to add more.


Our training was physically rough(I was Infantry 11B) but most of it depends on how in shape you are before you get in. I was in fairly good shape and just out of high school when I joined so it wasn't nearly as hard for me to improve. However, other people had more problems.

The other aspect is mental. And I think this is the bigger part. How well do you keep your head when Drill Sergeant Hartman is in your face calling your mother a "dirty name". How well do you react to situations when you're tired, cold, wet and hungry. If you can't handle this is basic training then you will fall apart in combat and then not only are you going to get yourself killed but also your buddies.

As far the "Toughest basic training". I don't know. I've talked to Marines and their basic training is similar to the Army Infantry's. But then again they have the same job. Infantry. Every Marine is a trained Infantryman. Of course it's not identical as they're stationed on ships and near the ocean and the Army is less concerned with that.

I'm sure Air Force basic training is probably less physically demanding but more mentally demanding.

[Dtrain]

I agree I spent 2 years stationed at Fort Jackson SC 1989-91 .I was assigned to a BT unit as the Unit Supply/Unit Armorer.
I was a 76Yankee Unit Supply SpeSmurfpillst.I think that the biggest thing was the mental aspect.I always felt it was better for a trainee to crumble there,than in combat where they could get themselves or their buddies killed.

I started out in the Reserves I went to Fort Polk LA. for my Basic,this was back in 87'.I wont get into what I saw,I will say that when I was stationed at Fort Jackson,alot and I mean alot had changed.

Things that I went through and accepted as common Basic Training practices so to speak,were not done or allowed
any more.I don't think that there was much difference in the skill level or physical readiness between me and the trainees that came out then,but I feel that I was a bit harder in the "Attitude" department.I feel that I was somewhat more capable of taking what was thrown at me and continuing on with what needed to be done.

I was 17 years old when I went through Basic,I was one of the youngest in my Platoon.I was also overweight,bieng from the suburbs I was exposed to alot of things I had never been exposed to before and was a bit naive.Sometimes,I was an easy target for the others to pick on.Our Drill Sergeants made it pretty clear to me one night that I needed to stand up for myself with one other private in the barracks.He put the two of us on detail together to clean the Latrine/Laundry room.Before we went he told me that I needed to do what I needed too to get this to stop or it never would.Well I did,and we both took our lumps.He then made us buddies for the rest of Basic,after sitting us down and having a "Come To Jesus" chat with the two of us.

The two of us never had a problem again,and I knew that he had my back,and I had his when anyone else messed
with us.

I guess what I am getting at,is that sometimes a "Non PC" solution to a problem can resolve it,and teach a valuable
lesson as well.I learned that sometimes the only person who will stand up for you is yourself.We both learned that when it really matters the most,no matter how much you might dislike the soldier next to you,that there is a good chance that he or she might be the only one around to bail you out when things get bad.He taught us that by making us buddies for the rest of Boot.

I think too that he resolved the problem,by getting done and over with in a situation he had some control over,instead of letting it fester,then blow up,possibly resulting in a worse outcome then some bumps and bruises.

Things that I would have never thought of doing,out of the fear of God,like falling out of a Road March or PT,were something that I saw everyday at Jackson.If you did when I was in Basic,not only did you face the wrath of your DI,later you faced the wrath of the rest of the Platoon.

Grass drills,a favorite pastime of my DI,were banned at Fort Jackson,as cruel punishment.Hell, they probably were.
Yet,the same grass drills pushed us,at let us see what we could do even if we were too tired to do it.

Alot of things that I do now,I think come from the lessons I learned in Basic.I might not succeed at what I try,but I try my best anyways.I don't quit at very much either.When I started driving a truck for a living 5 years ago next month,I had to start at the bottom and Over The Road.When I started at driving school we were shown some statistics,that basically said out of ten new drivers,by the end of the first year 6-7 will have quit the industry all together.

Starting out in Trucking was not easy,but the things that I went thru taught me quite a bit about myself,so no matter what the weather,the roads,the locations,food,bieng away from my family I kept at it.

When it comes to Military Training,I feel that the more extreme or hazzardous the MOS is the rougher the training should be.I think that that is why 11B's and up go thru a bit more rigourous training,same with Marines.The tasks that they are assigned are definetley a bit more hateful than what I was expected to do on a daily basis.The cost of them crumbling is definetley a bit more costly as well.

My time on active duty was cut short due to the Rif,and a poor marital choice,in my first wife,she was a Colonel's daughter and I was enlisted.Officers tend to take care of their own,and he figured she would leave,and she did if I was put out.At first I was bitter,especially after I had been out a year and they asked me if I was interested in coming back,due to a shortage in my MOS.I didnt,so much had changed from when I went in to when I got out.The same politics and wheeling dealing that we all see out here had started there.When I was offered a chance to get out instead of fighting to stay in I took it.I was offered an Honorable Discharge so I left.I have no regrets,5 years later I met my current wife,we have been together now for 13 years this month,have 2 great boys and a good income.
Sorry to ramble and sorry for the personal note.

Dtrain

PS. My Basic was 9 weeks,counting the week I waited for the rest of the company to arrive,and go through in processing.My AIT was 9 weeks also,1 week for inproccessing and waiting for the class all to arrive,the 8 weeks of training.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I never joined the military- by the time I was enlistment age I'd already racked up a number of potentially debilitating injuries, including a broken knee that to this day still pops out of joint when I push myself too hard.

My father was a military man, joining up when he decided the only other options in his area (mining and railroads) weren't real options at all in his opinion.  He went through basic and became a combat engineer- you know, the guys that build the bridges you need when the road ends and you need a tank on the other side, the guys that somehow manage to fabricate a runway large enough for a C-130 Hercules in the middle of a jungle and all the other virtually impossible tasks that need to be done while someone is shooting at you!  He eventually remustered to the Air Force where he drove a desk for the next 25 (or so) years until he retired as a Chief Warrant Officer, which in Canada is the highest non commissioned rank you can achieve.  His last posting was running the Orderly Room at one of the largest training bases in the world, CFB Borden in Ontario.  Not being a military person myself, but growing up on or near bases, I still managed to see the decline in the conditioning and discipline of troops from almost all friendly nations.  I think it happened in the 90's sometime, but it seemed to be a quite sudden change.  No longer could Drill Seargents call cadets names (or at least nothing too nasty), they could not have any physical contact with cadets, and cadets faced possible discharge if they were caught fighting.  Goodness knows, we don't want soldiers who could fight, and we sure as heck don't want to hurt their feelings by calling them nasty names...   

I know a few modern day military guys and I am pretty disappointed in some of them.  Not all mind you but more than I used to.  Maybe it's just stuff that I didn't see as a kid, but am now seeing as an adult- difference in perspective, but some of these guys are submitting complaints and the like to excuse them from pulling tours in Afghanistan.  Since when the hell was being shipped off to war an option for a soldier?

I know it's probably not all like that, but I have to say that what I see of the modern military makes me cringe when I see how many troops are being shipped into war zones and how many are coming back without their boots.

Def

[ducktapehero]

I still managed to see the decline in the conditioning and discipline of troops from almost all friendly nations.  I think it happened in the 90's sometime, but it seemed to be a quite sudden change.

I've seen it too. I went to Basic Training in 1990. I have heard that basic training now is a lot different than it was then.

The problem was that people in the western world have decided that the most important right that exists is now "The right to never ever get your little sensitive feelings hurt"

It's almost criminal to say anything bad about anybody, well except straight white males. You can say anything about them.

I need to stop now before I get mad. 

[hawkchucker]

Enlisted in the Corp. Spent 4 years in went Recon after Infantry training school. Had to attend Jump school at Benning. BUDS at Coranado.SERE in Panama then I had to attend Mountain survival. So ya the training is tough. But hey we dont promice you a rose garden.

As for laughing at the DI. No way in hell. I can tell ya the meanest man I ever met in the world was SSGT Garcia. 5 foot 5 of intense toughness. That man literaly put me on my but with his middle finger into my solarplexes.

Plus my Wings are famous. They are somewhere on SOSAK. and I still have the 2 holes in my chest from having them Punched in. Now thats a Marine Recon Tradition!! 40 Guys punching the wings into your chest till the t shirt is red.

[ducktapehero]

I still have the 2 holes in my chest from having them Punched in. Now thats a Marine Recon Tradition!! 40 Guys punching the wings into your chest till the t shirt is red.

Ahh yes, I wasn't a Marine but we had similar things. When a guy made NCO, everyone in his team or squad got to pound his rank in. After that the new Sergeant or Corporal smoked the team or squad with PT.

[hawkchucker]

Ahh to be young and dumb again.

[ducktapehero]

Ahh to be young and dumb again.

With a bunch of money in your pocket.

[hawkchucker]

On liberty in the phillipines.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I can see where this thread is going

[ducktapehero]

On liberty in the phillipines.

Or at Oktoberfest in Munich. 

[hawkchucker]

Allways wanted to go, unfortunatly maybe never will.

[Anthony]

Thanks for all the replies guys.  It's nice to read some real facts instead of the propaganda an actual recruiter would give me.  And for better or worse, recruiters won't tell you the truth, not the ones I've talked to...maybe it's because the recruiter was talking to a bunch of high school kids at the time, but I got the message that "It's tough for a little while, BUT THEN YOU GET TO SHOOT GUNS AND SWIM! AND GET STATIONED IN HAWAII!!"

Although that was a year before we were attacked in 2001, I'm guessing being stationed in Hawaii isn't all that common these days.

The thing is, I'm 25 now and I don't have the attitude a 17 or 18 year old might have.  I've worked tough jobs for the past 10 years.  No time put in at a fast food place either.  Maybe it was a bad decision at the time, but after school I went to a factory for a few hours to work instead of a Burger King like most kids.  On the summers it was full time.  It's made me pretty strong I think, but I have nothing to show for it really...being good at mechanical things, manual labor, inventory, deadlines and general problem solving can only get you so far these days without a college degree.  The logical progession I think is joining the military. 

When you all went into basic, was it mostly guys right out of school, or were there a lot of "older" recruits also?

Has anyone worked with armor units?  I'm fairly short (5'5") and strong, so I'd probably be more comfortable in the cramped spaces of a tank than someone who's 6'5".  And I get over heat and humidity pretty good; no factories I've worked in were "air conditioned" (is there such a thing in a factory ).

I don't know if I'd be into guys punching medals into my chest, but if you've made it that far I guess you've already endured worse.

[hawkchucker]

I actually went to boot in May of 83. I never attended my Graduation, and never recieved my Diploma until i picked it up in 89. I think the younger you are is harder to get into the flow. kids allways question why and older men just understand that you need to work, and get the job done. As for Armor, well I could never stand being in really tight spaces, especially in the mix. I would allways prefer to fight in the open with cover, not in a can. As for your hieght, That is not an issue. In fact it can be of use to be smaller. I am shaped as the instructors at Lejune stated a Fireplug. Short and stock. I can hump a ruck all day and when I first went to school it was as a mortarman. And trust me all short stocky guys carry the baseplate. That is an adition 85lbs to your gear.

If you ever decide to go to a recruiter. Let me know. I would be proud to go to Woonsockett to any AF recruiters with ya. I know how they think, and trust me with someone that knows the game. they hate that.

Number1 Recruiters cannot and never will know where you will be stationed.
Secondly. If you get recycled due to preformance or injury. YOU WILL loose whatever job you signed up for.
Third. You dont know if your job is open until you go to meps in Boston. The computer tells you if the slot is open.
Fourth Get all the cash and promotions you can in writing before going to meps. They will give ya signing bonus cash and promotion as insentive to join.   

[Tsquare]

     My recruiter was dead on everything he told me.  He must have been the only one.  Funny thing I found out that after he got out of the Air Force he went to work for the same company I work for but in a different part of the company.

[ducktapehero]

When you all went into basic, was it mostly guys right out of school, or were there a lot of "older" recruits also?

It was both. Personally, I would recommend someone just getting out of high school to wait a couple years. Get your partying and girl chasing wound down a little. 

Has anyone worked with armor units?  I'm fairly short (5'5") and strong, so I'd probably be more comfortable in the cramped spaces of a tank than someone who's 6'5".

I was mechanized Infantry. We had Bradley Infantry Fighting vehicles(link below). Not a tank but still a tracked vehicle. US armored vehicles aren't nearly as cramped as you'd think. Granted someone smaller would be able to get in there easier but there were a lot of big guys in my units. And the heat(or cold) inside the vehicles isn't a problem either. Of course in the Infantry the dismounted troops don't get to sleep in the vehicle. They tend to get cold or hot.

Of course I think the Army is moving away from Bradley's and using Strykers now. The Bradleys were mainly designed for mechanized warfare with the Soviet Union. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Fighting_Vehicles

[Dtrain]

I was what they call a "Split Option".I attended Basic Training during the summer between my Junior and Senior year in High School.After finishing Basic i returned home and finished my Senior year,while attending Monthly Drills with my Reserve Unit,After graduating High School I then went to my Advanced Training that summer.I do not know,not that it matters at your age if the Army even offers that program.I had to get my Parents to sign a legal waiver to enlist.My report cards and progress reports went to my Parents,of course,and a copy was sent to my Unit Commander.

Dtrain

[mpi]

  80 to 88, MPI.  went to basic at Ft Dix [most descriptively named place i ever been]  and mp and mpi school at McClellan in ala.  I was fat going in and went from 337 pounds to 179 during basic.  I had to get a medical waiver to get in.  I loved it and wish i was still in.  I remember the poor marital choice thing.  I saw a decline in personnel quality toward the end of my enlistment.  BCT was a bitch and i still loved it.  The rules were pretty clear then, you couldn't do anything to a recruit that would keep him from training........that was pretty much it.  I was personally struck, kicked and otherwise physically battered but never truly injured. 

  I did see a drill badly injure a kid that tried to hit him with a steel pot on the freedom ridge training complex.  We were standing morning formation and he just snapped as the drill walked past him.  the drill didn't even speak to him or have any contact previous to the incident.  we just stood in formation and never moved during the "incident"

  I also saw a recruit shot in the butt on a live fire course and another lose a thumbnail to the bolt of an M16.  I was stuck riding in the ambulance to Walson Army Hospital with him and was ordered to take charge of his 16.  I found the nail in the chamber when i cleaned it a couple days later.   YUCKYPOO   I did get really tired of carrying his weapon until someone noticed and had me turn it in to the armorer.

[BIG-TARGET]

Though I'm proud of being a civilian(unless you count that nasty Firefight I course I took when I was a volunteer fireman).

But one thing I have noticed, even to this day: higher ranking NCOs always seem to know what's going on, while commissioned officer don't know their a** from their .

Still true in most cases??

[CQC-7]

I will have to say that some recruiters are really hard headed.  When I was a freshman in college (1998), I was interested in joining the Marines.  I contacted the recruiter and took my initial tests.  I guess that I scored really really high and he told me that I could choose my job if I enlisted.  I told him that I wanted infantry.  The recruiter for some reason or another wanted me to work on helicopters and he kept pushing the issue.  For the next 2 weeks I kept getting calls about signing on to be a helicopter mechanic, and every time I told the guy I wanted infantry.  Finally the calls quit coming.  Nowadays, they would be foaming at the mouth to get someone to sign on for infantry.   

[Anthony]

What is the initial testing like?  Is it a take home thing, or you do it with a class?

Are the online ones a good representation of what the actual test is?