A good outdoor knife?

[kkokkolis]

Hi.
I am considering a good outdoor knife.
My outdoor life is such that a heavy, full tang, fixed blade is not needed and might also look awkward. Think of it as a camping tool, not a survival one.
I now have an Opinel Outdoor (I EDC it actually, it is featherweight) and a solid Buck 110 clone (great carbon blade, it stays in the car glove compartment).
But I'm a Swiss fan, so...
What's needed

0) Big 110-130mm format
1) One hand opening, at least for the main blade
2) Locking main blade
3) Straight edge main blade, preferably clip- point or drop point)
4) Serrated secondary blade (sheepfoot or curved, like the gutting or emergency blades)
5) Great wood saw (longer and stronger than the 91mm saws)
6) Strong prying tool (Can- opener/ screwdriver combo)
7) Strong awl
8 ) Water proof (no electronics, LEDs or wood scales). I might dive with it and use it on oysters.

That's it. I don't need other tools because I always carry a Swisschamp or XLT. But a long metal file or a Wenger can opener (for carving things) might be a bonus.

I found the Wenger Ranger Hunter (I get dizzy with their numbers), the Wenger Mike Horn (no saw but a great sheepfoot serrated blade), Victorinox Dual Pro and Dutch Army Knife.
If I could add the Mike Horn serrated blade to the Ranger 57, that would be it. But I want a NIB one, I don't mod.
It looks that Outdoor Wengers are stronger than Victorinox models. But the hunting blade (to cut ropes and food for me, also as an emergency belt cutter) is serrated in Victorinox models, not Wenger.
I'll keep it in the car, I don't care about the weight, but it should fit in my (XL) hand easily. So 3-5 layers is OK.
Do I miss any? What's your opinion?

[enki_ck]

Wenger NewRanger 57.

[MultiMat]

I really like my Wenger RangerGrip 78 , PE main blade & a decent sized saw  .the scales do make it a little too thick for me though  I would love to make some thinner scales for it 


Does not have the serrated 2nd blade you are after though , that does make it a little tricky 

[J Mackrel Jones]

You are a tough guy indeed if you clean up with a blade the edges of those little wounds an outdoorsman inevitably gets.  What about scissors?

[gustophersmob]

I'm not a fan of Wenger's big models.  Something about the look and width just doesn't work for me.

I love my Vic one handed trekkers (I have the plain edge kind).  They just don't have the second serrated blade.

The dual pro X is close, but no saw.

The rescue tool has all the implements, but the saw is designed for glass, not wood, so it may not work the best. I've never tried it though.

FWIW, my outdoor SAK is the OHT with a ferro rod addached to a lanyard.  Suits me just fine.

[kkokkolis]

So, the New Ranger 57-58 is the closest one, just the secondary blade isn't serrated. The Dual Pro has 2 serrated blades and no saw. Nothing is perfect.
I already have and use other SAKs like Swisschamp and Swisschamp XLT. I noticed that the scissors and pliers are the same between 91mm and 110mm models, with the exception of the new Wenger folding types. But I usually don't need such big pliers or scissors, the one of the Swisschamps' suffice. There is a plier multitool in the car already but I don't like these multi tools that much. If I change opinion I'll get a Swisstool Plus
The Wenger 130mm saw is much bigger and looks stronger than any from Victorinox though. What a straight blade can't cut a serrated can. And what a serrated can't cut a saw can. That's how I thought of the trio needed. I don't get the logic behind two straight or two serrated blades. One of each is optimal for me. Half or 2/3 serration is not any good also, unless you have a really long blade with edge to spare.
I wonder: a metal file was more substantial for Mike Horn than a wood saw? Perhaps he had some normal hatchet and saw with his supplies, I can't understand it any other way.

[kkokkolis]

Work champ XL has everything (and a clip-point blade also) but it seems huge. Is it usable?

[Gareth]

The Vic Hunter is very close, but no OHO blade.

[kkokkolis]

@ gustophersmob I thought the Wengers size was a plus for a non urban model.
I continued searching and found what's called Victorinox Hunter XT. How about that? It seems that it fits most requirements.
I can even buy it from a shop in my city, no shipping.
http://www.actionitems.gr/%CE%A3%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%AC%CE%B4%CE%B5%CF%82-%CE%9C%CE%B5%CE%B3%CE%AC%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B9-111mm/Victorinox-08341MC9-HUNTER-XT.html

Nothing is perfect indeed. This thing lacks an Awl and a Screwdriver (Prying tool). But it has the 3 blades needed.

Wenger 57 Advantages
- Bigger and sturdier blades
- Substantial saw
- Clip- point blade
- Awl
- Prying tool (Screwdriver/ bottle opener)
- Carving tool (Can opener)
- Nicer hole fot OHO
- No corckscrew

Victorinox Hunter XT Advantages
- Serrated "gutting" blade
- Lockable "gutting" blade
- One hand opening "gutting" blade
- Nice and easy to view orange color
- Slimmer
- Able to buy it from a shop nearby (no shipping, no waiting)

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

@ gustophersmob I thought the Wengers size was a plus for a non urban model.
I continued searching and found what's called Victorinox Hunter XT. How about that? It seems that it fits most requirements.
I can even buy it from a shop in my city, no shipping.
http://www.actionitems.gr/%CE%A3%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%AC%CE%B4%CE%B5%CF%82-%CE%9C%CE%B5%CE%B3%CE%AC%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B9-111mm/Victorinox-08341MC9-HUNTER-XT.html

Nothing is perfect indeed. This thing lacks an Awl and a Screwdriver (Prying tool). But it has the 3 blades needed.

Wenger 57 Advantages
- Bigger and sturdier blades
- Substantial saw
- Clip- point blade
- Awl
- Prying tool (Screwdriver/ bottle opener)
- Carving tool (Can opener)
- Nicer hole fot OHO
- No corckscrew

Victorinox Hunter XT Advantages
- Serrated "gutting" blade
- Lockable "gutting" blade
- One hand opening "gutting" blade
- Nice and easy to view orange color
- Slimmer
- Able to buy it from a shop nearby (no shipping, no waiting)

I have a regular Hunter (modded of course) and it's my favorite outdoors SAK.  It's the closest to what you're looking for.  The Ranger 178 is also close.  You might also want to look at a Vic Outrider. 

I'd suggest steering clear of the Work Champ XL; it's intended to be a collectible rather than a genuine user.

[Reinier]

Looks like a modded Hunter XT is what you want: what is missing is the opener layer from e.g. the 2010 DAK or Trekker.

Edit: how about a One Handed Fireman? No plain edge blade, but those serrated can be removed quite easily.

It looks like there is a PE version as well:

[kkokkolis]

I like the second one. It has all the tools and I can do with serrations. What model is that?
I don't get their way of thinking. This model has the main and emergency blade serrated, Wenger's model 57 has both blades straight. Isn't it sensible to offer a straight (main) blade and a serrated (emergency) blade?
I'd prefer this Victorinox over the Dual pro or Hunter XT because it seems that the two bulges around the holes don't help for comfortable handling.

[Reinier]

The second one is a one hand Fireman. There is also a version with a black-oxide coated main blade. More info: http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Fireman

[kkokkolis]

Thanks. It's not available to the e-shop I'm usually buying www.swiss-knife.com/en/victorinox-swiss-army-knife/victorinox-swiss-army-knife-111mm.htm, that's why I didn't know it. It is a soldier with an emergency blade, a fine combination. I'll try to trace it. Thanks again.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Thanks. It's not available to the e-shop I'm usually buying www.swiss-knife.com/en/victorinox-swiss-army-knife/victorinox-swiss-army-knife-111mm.htm, that's why I didn't know it. It is a soldier with an emergency blade, a fine combination. I'll try to trace it. Thanks again.

Have you thought about a Rescue Tool?  It might not be exactly what you're looking for, but it does have a very nice serrated 'rescue' blade for cutting cord and strapping.

[kkokkolis]

My concept is that a saw will benefit a lot if it has the opportunity to be bigger. The rescue tool has no saw and it is considerably more expensive than both Hunter options.
Speaking of rope, today I was in a Praktiker shop (a European DIY chain) and I used my Spartan to cut the edges of some ropes, polystyrene, cannabis and other types. It cut through them like butter. I then tried my Opinel Outdoor on a piece of rope in the car and either more force was needed for the straight segment of the blade's edge, oherwise it was brilliant when I engaged the serrations.
So, if the blade is sharp enough (as ususal with SAKs) there's no need for serrations in order to cut any rope. I'm sure Wenger's emergency blade cuts rope as easily as the Spartan's blade. The XLT's prunner is a champion cutter, but it is very short.

[kkokkolis]

I think I'm finalising on a Wenger 57, with realtree scales in particular http://www.swiss-knife.com/asp/detail.asp?lan=EN&code=1.077.057.804&shop=SK

[enki_ck]

Let us know how you feel about it when you get it.

[kkokkolis]

It seems that the only knife that has all the implements needed isn't a SAK but the Leatherman Charge AL.
Straight and serrated blades, saw and prying tool and can opener like the Wenger's, plus pliers, metal file, drivers, bits, OHO for all blades, lock for all tools etc. What do you think? I!m going to start using the Leatherman forum also, I think.

[Gareth]

It seems that the only knife that has all the implements needed isn't a SAK but the Leatherman Charge AL.
Straight and serrated blades, saw and prying tool and can opener like the Wenger's, plus pliers, metal file, drivers, bits, OHO for all blades, lock for all tools etc. What do you think? I!m going to start using the Leatherman forum also, I think.

The Wave has the same tools as the Charge AL and will cost you a little less.  Personally I find a full sized MT a bit bigger and heavier than what I am looking for in a outdoor 'knife'.

[AimlessWanderer]

In an outdoors realm I personally would want a knife and a separate multitool.

In my outdoor options I have a Bear Grylls Pack (the one with a Strata variation, a fire starter and Tempo torch), a Wenger Rangergrip 90 (I'd leave the drivers at home), or if I wasn't expecting to need any tools at all, but wanted something small and lightweight just in case it may be a CS4 (not my favourite tool to use, but I could get by with one and the right ingredients are there). I also have a Victorinox Compact in a First Aid Kit, which has all the extras that the Rangergrip doesn't have.

None of these replace a decent fixed blade knife though IMHO. Doesn't need to be huge, just strong enough for a bit of hard use. I often carry something like a Cold Steel Finn Bear or Canadian Belt Knife (I now have the Roach Belly too, which I prefer) for food tasks, but which would be enough for heavier tasks without putting too much weight in the pack - they are very lightweight knives for what they can do. Of course a Mora is another highly rated lightweight and affordable alternative. Another thing I like about these knives is they look like utility knives not tactical knives, and an orange handled Mora is also easy to see (harder to lose).

I know you weren't looking at fixed blades, but the ones I've mentioned are quite nice in that role, and I prefer fixed blades for food prep to save getting food and juices in the pivot or inside the handle of the knife

[kkokkolis]

I finally decided to follow a moderate route. Most wildplaces in Greece are a few miles away from a cozy hotel and my trips in the wilderness are mostly for amateur astronomy sessions on top of some mountain, none of which is more than 20km away from a village. My new Alox Harvester seems perfect for the situation and I can harvest some radishes and mountain tea with ease using that great mini sickle. Thank you.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

In an outdoors realm I personally would want a knife and a separate multitool.
...
None of these replace a decent fixed blade knife though IMHO. Doesn't need to be huge, just strong enough for a bit of hard use.

I've been puzzling this out for a few months now... what is the perfect outdoors EDC tool?  Unfortunately, like any other EDC tool, there isn't any one single perfect answer.  However, I've gotten pretty close, and the strategy of a SAK and a fixed blade is one that I've adopted that works pretty well.

For my "adventure pack", that I use for longer day hikes, and overnighters/weekends, I have three tools that cover all my bases; a PER Ranger 179, my old pre '05 Swiss Champ, and one of my fixed blades. 

For my regular day hiking and PSK pack, I have my modded Vic 111 Hunter (which has a scissors/phillips layer added), my BK14, and my Juice CS4. 

If I had to be stuck in the woods and could only have one tool with me, I'd probably go with my modded Hunter.  By itself it's pretty close to the perfect outdoors EDC.  After that It'd be a toss-up between my Swiss Champ and my CS4.

[kkokkolis]

May we have a picture of that Modified Hunter please?

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

May we have a picture of that Modified Hunter please?

Here you go...


It has a different lanyard on it now.  I like the small phillips driver for lots of reasons when outdoors.  Occasionally it's needed for smaller lights and things for my kids' toys, replacing batteries, etc.  It also makes a surprisingly good marlin spike for undoing knots in cord.  It's also useful as a general pointy-poking thing as well.  I've used it to dig beetles and other bugs out of dead logs to show my daughter when I take her hiking. 

When I was first planning out what I wanted, I did equivocate a bit as to what tools I wanted.  Mainly, I was really torn about whether or not I'd want a pair of pliers in it.  I find them very handy for stitching up heavy fabric and straps for things like a failed pack seam, and so on.  I decided to keep it simple though, and limit it to tools that I knew I'd need more than any other.  So, this is as close to a perfect outdoors SAK as I think I'm going to get.

[kkokkolis]

Nice!

[Gareth]

I like the look of that a lot.

[AimlessWanderer]

Me too, though I do still like to have pliers of some sort when out and about. Even it it's just a Squirt/Style/Dime sized pair, they can be extremely useful

[MARIOS7319]

(Image removed from quote.)

Very nice indeed !
As for my choice for a outdoor knife, i will vote for carrying two knives, one fix blade and the other a SAK.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Thanks guys.  Steve put it together for me.  I'm sure he'll be willing to do more if you ask him.

I was very much considering pliers, but I decided I wanted something smaller and lighter weight, mainly because this lives in my day-hiking/PSK pack.  I figure if I'm really going to need pliers, I've got my CS4 I can take for that.

In a lot of ways, this is basically an Outrider that's had the openers layer redone with the combo tool and serrated blade.  It would be easier to mod a Hunter than an Outrider I think though.  If you really did want to go with the pliers, you'd need a Work Champ or a Hercules as a donor tool, and you'd still need the Hunter for the combo tool and serrated blade.  IIRC, the Hunter is the only 111 size SAK that has them, other than the Work Champ XL.

Marios, I do exactly the same thing; the fixed blade I have paired up with this is my Becker BK 14 "eskabar".  Great little knife!  I also have another pack, a Mountainsmith Approach 3 that I call my "adventure pack" that I use for longer, all-day hikes, over-nighters, camping, etc.  I carry my Wenger PER Ranger 179, my pre '05 Swiss Champ, and my Condor bushcrafting knife with that pack.