Soldier Trivia Contest

jazzbass · **on:** December 13, 2012, 10:49:09 AM

I have a nice Vic Executive that needs a new home and thought a good way to give it away would be through a SAK trivia contest. So here goes - first person to answer (or guess) all three questions correctly, wins a free Executive.

Victorinox and Wenger have been stamping dates on Soldier knives since 1921. I have a program that collects sales info for SAK auctions and have data on almost 4000 Soldier knives sold in the last 3 years. According to that data:

1. What is the only year since 1921 that there were no soldier knives of any type produced?
2. What year of the alox M61 Soldier is the hardest to find?
3. What year of the alox M61 Soldier is the easiest to find (excluding 2008)?

All questions apply to both Victorinox and Wenger together and only to Soldier knives made for the Swiss Army. DAKs, etc, don't count.

McChouffe · **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2012, 08:56:04 PM

1. 58, 60, 61, 72, 74

2. 67

3. 06

colt 1911 · **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2012, 01:07:37 AM

1. 62

2. 68

3.06

shot in the dark !

jazzbass · **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2012, 06:06:20 AM

Hmm.. not much interest. I thought there'd be a few more guesses, but I guess I need to come up with something better than an Executive. Maybe next time (shrug).

Anyway, McChouffe - there's only one year where there is not a Soldier knife available from either Wenger or Victorinox. Some of your dates, like 74, are Wenger-only years, but you can get a 74 Soldier if you want. Heck - it's not even the hardest to find (question #2).

Anyway - I'll have to think of a better question and find a better knife to give away next time. The answer to this, BTW:

1. 1960
2. 1995 (followed by 1974 and then 1972)
3. 1983 (followed by 2003 and then 1991)

lowtech · **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2012, 07:56:45 AM

Your questions were quite elaborated, i just lack the knowledge to find out the answers.
Very nice giveaway - I would have taken part even for a Toothpick, but i don´t know much about soldiers other than they Are 4 tool alox knives.

Is there a special reason none were made 1983? and why are 95s so hard and 83s so easy to find? does this correlate with constant production numbers but less/more soldiers or was there a special ebvent limiting the number?

Tyler_ · **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2012, 08:25:03 AM

Cool info. I have been collecting 1990 - 08 Soldiers for almost 2 years, so I follow Ebay religiously.

I have only seen 1 '95 in the last2 years and it went sky high. Lucky for me my birth year is '83 so I have a good collection on 83 Soldiers I got dirt cheap, including a NIB one.

duder · **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2012, 10:15:29 AM

Are you sure there were no knives in 1960 ? According to an old VSAKCS-list there were 2 types of the Wenger model 1951 made in this year (with fiber and Grilon handles).
I`m not sure if I have ever seen one, but it is probably difficult to prove that they don`t exist. Maybe they are just very rare and did not show up in the last few years.

jazzbass · **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2012, 04:52:20 PM

Quote from: duder on December 14, 2012, 10:15:29 AM

Are you sure there were no knives in 1960 ? According to an old VSAKCS-list there were 2 types of the Wenger model 1951 made in this year (with fiber and Grilon handles).
I`m not sure if I have ever seen one, but it is probably difficult to prove that they don`t exist. Maybe they are just very rare and did not show up in the last few years.

Nope, I can't say there weren't any for sure - it's like that old saying "you can't prove a negative". I should have phrased the question better, something like "What is the only year Soldier that has not been seen for sale" or something like that.

I show 1959 as the last year Victorinox made the old M54 Soldier, and those only in fiber. I have Wenger making Grillion and Fiber M54s up until at least 1964. The only year I have never seen in 1960, although most M54s after after 1956 are pretty hard to come by.

jazzbass · **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2012, 05:26:58 PM

BTW, here's a vary large graph that shows what I'm talking about. I do data collection and visualization for a living, can you tell?

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2012, 06:19:57 PM

I have to say, I didn't enter because I had NO idea on questions 2 and 3.

I was pretty sure 1960 was the low point, but 72 was a sparse year too (I thought).

We just need easier questions.

Northern Geek · **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2012, 06:37:31 PM

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on December 14, 2012, 06:19:57 PM

I have to say, I didn't enter because I had NO idea on questions 2 and 3.

I was pretty sure 1960 was the low point, but 72 was a sparse year too (I thought).

We just need easier questions.

Same here really.. I had no clue so I figured I'd leave it up to the folks who actually know what they're talking about. Good of you to give people the chance though!

AimlessWanderer · **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2012, 06:51:26 PM

That shows the '73 as being quite an easy acquisition, but every one I've seen has been way higher than I've been willing to pay. I think there's a few on here that would like one but I think most want it more desperately than me. Not sure if Syph has managed to score one yet, but pretty sure he'd outbid me by at least 50%

I'm trying to think now who else I'd be bidding against

(if evil bay would let me of course

) I'm sure there's 3 or 4.

Seems to be a generational thing too - a (kind of) grail of us for those between 35 and 45, albeit it to varying levels of want

jazzbass · **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2012, 08:26:22 PM

Quote from: 50ft-trad on December 14, 2012, 06:51:26 PM

That shows the '73 as being quite an easy acquisition, but every one I've seen has been way higher than I've been willing to pay.

That's the thing about knife collecting and these auctions - no one knows what to pay and no one really knows how "rare" something is. I realized this 4 years ago when I started collecting which is why I started gathering data.

The 73 thing is interesting. In Jan 2010 a 73 Soldier sold for $690. It was such a big number that it made a lasting impression on everyone and all of the sudden 73s became "valuable". Because info on availability is so scarce, people pay what they think something is worth and that set a precedent. The reality of that $690 auction is that it was just two guys with too much money fighting over one knife. Once these two stopped fighting, 73s sold for an average of $56.*

Add to that the fact that there are a lot of people new to this hobby and that it tends to be very transitional (people get in, overpay for lots of stuff, burn out, sell their collections), there's not a lot of people with long term knowledge of what something should cost.

* One note on that $690 73, BTW. It was actually a somewhat unique knife. From 1962-1973 Victorinox stamped all their soldiers "Elsener Schwyz Victoria". They take a break in 74, and 75+ Soldiers are stamped "Victorinox Switzerland Stainless Rostfrei". The $690 73 had the "Victorinox" stamp, not the more common Elsener stamp. A 73 with a Victorinox stamp is pretty rare, FWIW. I'm not sure it's worth $690 or if that was even a factor in that bidding war, but something worth noting.

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2012, 08:37:26 PM

In the next giveaway trivia test, I'm TOTALLY set for the question:

"What is the most ever paid for a 1973 Soldier?"

SAKnight · **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2012, 07:27:45 AM

I'll let you guess what year i was born...

if anyone has one, name a price!

GigaHz · **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2012, 08:58:10 PM

I am looking for 59. I haven't seen one yet.

rmagralha · **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2012, 09:16:58 PM

All, excuse my ignorance, but how many soldiers models Victorinox has? and what are the difference between them? For example, what is the M61 that was part of the quiz? Again, sorry for the newbie question, but I'm trying to learn

. I did a quick search in google but could not find the explanation.

Thanks!

colt 1911 · **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2012, 11:14:05 PM

Good question ! I 'am new,I would like to learn also

nuphoria · **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2012, 11:28:32 PM

A good place to start is the SAKwiki: http://www.sakwiki.com/

Tons of great info there.

enki_ck · **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2012, 04:04:37 AM

Quote from: rmagralha on December 15, 2012, 09:16:58 PM

All, excuse my ignorance, but how many soldiers models Victorinox has? and what are the difference between them? For example, what is the M61 that was part of the quiz? Again, sorry for the newbie question, but I'm trying to learn . I did a quick search in google but could not find the explanation.

Thanks!

Four I believe. The 1890 version, the 1951, the 1961 and the current 2008. All of them except the 2008 were made by both Victorinox and Wenger. There were some slight variations of the knives throughout the years, for instance the changes on the 61 include hollow rivets and bails on the SI, different shields, ... and the early ones were red alox.

You can read more about it on their SAKwiki pages.

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Soldier+1890

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Soldat+1951

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Soldier+1961

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Soldier+2008

These are the models for the Swiss army. The German army had a special model made for them, the 108mm GAK, and some other armies also have interesting knives made by Victorinox, like the Malaysian army (Outrider with phillips)

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/61771_437410367509_2709941_n.jpg

J Mackrel Jones · **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2012, 04:45:33 AM

A Model 1908 is distinct from the 1890: spear blade changes to clip shape, fiber scales replace the wood ones, weight 19 grams lighter.
The Swiss Army Knife Owner's Manual gives a run-down of the Soldier models, with a decent photo, pages 38 and 39.

jazzbass · **Reply #21 on:** December 16, 2012, 06:54:13 AM

Quote from: J Mackrel Jones on December 16, 2012, 04:45:33 AM

A Model 1908 is distinct from the 1890: spear blade changes to clip shape, fiber scales replace the wood ones, weight 19 grams lighter.

Yup. I tend to break them out as follows:

M90 - Model 1890. Large wood handles, spear point blade
M1908 - Model 1908. This is the first version of the 100mm clip point soldier knife.
M21 - Model 1921. Same as the 1908 model except in stainless steel and with date stamps.
M51 - Model 1951. 93mm, spear point instead of clip point
M54 - Model 1954. Similar to M51 except with large rivet on the back. Wenger models in the late 50s/early 60s get Grillion scales (looks like red plastic). Wenger makes these until 1964.
M61 - Model 1961. The famous 93mm alox soldier knife, doesn't actually get issues until 1962 (there are no 1961 stamped M61s that I know of). If you look at my chart above, I divide this down further into M61R (red, old cross), M61S (silver, old cross) and M61C (silver, new cross).
M2008 - Model 2008. This is the new soldier based on the 111mm knives.

tattoosteve99 · **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2012, 03:31:00 PM

Quote from: jazzbass on December 14, 2012, 05:26:58 PM

BTW, here's a vary large graph that shows what I'm talking about. I do data collection and visualization for a living, can you tell?

(Image removed from quote.)

I just saw this thread

. That very cool
What you do. Anyway you can do a comparison for price of knives and multis since MTO came around?

rmagralha · **Reply #23 on:** December 16, 2012, 08:01:34 PM

Thank you all! It is more clear now. I think I'm pretty lucky as I only have 2 M61 models, one is 94 and other a 95!

really appreciate the clarification!

ICanFixThat · **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2012, 01:04:08 AM

Nice contest, seems like it was ended a little early though, holiday season means pepople can't be on here as often. I thing each of the individual questions by themselves could have been used for a contest, all 3 was a bit much for an Executive.