The future of multitools?

[parnass]

Leaving the mechanical realm for a moment, smartphones are the new multitools.

[Landrew]

Leaving the mechanical realm for a moment, smartphones are the new multitools.

I know it was a stupid idea, but that TaskOne multitool/iPhone back thingie was kinda cool in a way.

[Steinar]

In some ways I feel we've gone beyond the optimum, bringing out higher grade stainlesses for "supreme edge retention", but which chip out too much and therefore require too much sharpening. The 400 series alone is a superb material, often discounted as being out of date is search of more modern powder metallurgy etc, but as a "package" as you said above, it's superb and I prefer it to many of the "super steels"

I pretty much agree with your sentiment, but I have a different perspective on the steel industry. I think the blame lies with the knife customers and marketing departments.

Going beyond the optimum has more to do with knife manufacturers choosing the wrong steels for marketing reasons than what happens in metallurgy. I agree there is too much carbides in many fasionable steels, making the steel prone to microchipping and breaking. These steels are usually not designed for knives at all, they are meant for optimum abrasion resistance in tools with a "blunt" edge angle. I don't dare putting anything below 40 degrees inclusive on some steels, like 440C (very large carbides, also a lot of them) and S30V (simply too much carbides, powder metallurgy isn't magic), while C75 and 1.4110 always gets 30 degrees. (Yes, I use a Sharpmaker. ) Typical sheath knives used in Norway, stuff like Mora knives, had an edge angle of typically 27-28 degrees inclusive, at least that was the result checking an AFAIK large enough sample of surviving knives. Anything above 40 degrees is more of a can opener than a knife, IMNSHO... More chromium, carbon, niobium, element of the week isn't the only direction for steel research. Even a "primitive" steel from a good foundry today is superior to the bad old days, simply because it's so pure.

Stuff like S30V excels on cutting soft materials like webbing and meat, but the price is lowered impact resistance. For instance, the heavy duty laminated 3G Fällkniven knives can break in winter with hard, but reasonable, use, the joys of high alloy supersteels... (If you don't believe me, I can get pictures.)

Some of my favourite knives are 440C, but those are fine folders. For hard use I prefer properly heat treated Chipper/A8-mod. For knives where abrasion resistance becomes more important, I think Vanadis 4E is a great choice because of its high ductility. I'm very curious about e.g. Cronidur 30 for optimum rust resistance while keeping an OK edge, but I haven't got any knives using it. As it was developed for use in, among other things, industrial garbage grinders, it might be quite good.

I have a small side project with software for estimating the volume of carbides in a micrograph of steel. I have a metallurgist friend who showed me some micrographs for steels common in knives, and I felt it should be possible to make something usable as a hobby project.

[AimlessWanderer]

I think if history has taught us anything, its that predictions about the future are rarely accurate.

I knew you were going to say that .... 



 

@ Steinar,

I'd agree it's due to popularity and public perception more than functionality. I would argue about steels being purer though, as there are more recycled metals today and therefore traces of all sorts of garbage, but I think we've certainly got cleverer on heat treatments and grain control. Essentially though, I would agree with you. Functional, cheap, and readily maintained would be my recipe for big smile  Just look at the SAK cutting test vid that keeps popping up where a traditional steel made and treated properly outperforms a "better" CPM steel and leaves the tester speechless

[Lynn LeFey]

Just look at the SAK cutting test vid that keeps popping up where a traditional steel made and treated properly outperforms a "better" CPM steel and leaves the tester speechless

Or this one. Surprising... to knife snobs, not so much to long-time SAK users.

[Mr. Whippy]

Just look at the SAK cutting test vid that keeps popping up where a traditional steel made and treated properly outperforms a "better" CPM steel and leaves the tester speechless

Or this one. Surprising... to knife snobs, not so much to long-time SAK users.

Wow!

That is impressive.  I wonder how the Leatherman Wave/Charge blades would fare? 

[Lynn LeFey]

The thing I found REALLY funny in the video is that the guy said his criteria was to cut the rope and still have paper cutting sharpness at the end, and i'm thinking, 'well, that's what the OTHER blade is for'. 

[Mr. Whippy]

I keep thinking about dropping the leatherman from my farm EDC and going with a OHO 111mm knife and a pair of small vise grips. That does leave me without a bit driver option however. 

I've come to the conclusion that I'm really strongly inclined to OHO blades on the farm.

[Lynn LeFey]

You're not happy with the OHO on the Wave/Charge line?

Also, keep in mind, OHO on the 111mm series is 2-hand to close for right-handed users. Which... doesn't bother me in the least!!!

[Grant Lamontagne]

Leaving the mechanical realm for a moment, smartphones are the new multitools.

I know it was a stupid idea, but that TaskOne multitool/iPhone back thingie was kinda cool in a way.

I agree with both of these statements.  Smartphones are indeed modern multitools, and indeed, the concept of that fancy tool case thing is great.  That particular version is extremely poor application of a good concept, something you see all too often in the multitool industry.

Def

[Lynn LeFey]

The problem I see in merging the digital multitool and the physical multitool is one of obsolescence. This is the same problem I have with the SAKs with USB drives: nice IDEA, but terrible in reality, because your little electronic gadgmo is worthless in 5 years, whereas a SAK can last a lifetime.

Make a great MT case for an iPhone... and the @$$hats at Apple change the form factor of their next phone. Then, your tool/case is obsolete. Yay!

If someone could make an MT with a kind of universal clamping system, to accept any (within reasonable limits) size phone... then you might be on to something. Same with the SAKs with memory thingies. Make a way to replace the memory bits, and hope that at least the standard (USB, whatever) remains around for a while.

By the way, I have this same issue with cars sticking electronic stuff in the dash. Those systems will be obsolete long before the car reaches the end of its useful life, but at least cars have a shorter life expectancy than multitools.

In short, I don't see the merger of digital and physical as a good thing, long term. But if we're all about disposable technology, then... what the heck. I mean, I AM worrying about a $50 tool/case falling into obsolescence with a $500 phone. So....

EDIT: Holy Crap... okay, so you heard this idea here first... Make a phone bracket that is specific to the make of phone, which accepts Swisscards/Tool Logic Rescue Cards. Then, you just replace the bracket with the new phone, and swap your old tool card into the new bracket. Dear Otterbox...

[Steinar]

Hygiene articles is the only thing I prefer as disposable. I hate the entire culture of "make smurf, let it break, buy new" with a vengeance. Price has actually little to do with it.

[Grant Lamontagne]

What, you mean reusing toothpaste and toilet paper is bad?   

Lynn, that concept pretty much already exists.  Many of the leather book type phone cases are set up with card slots and I used to carry a SwissCard Quattro with my PDA.  Maybe the flippy cover part isn't the greatest idea for a phone, but it works.  Also, look at the iPhone case from CRKT- while it doesn't have much function itself (other than protecting the phone) it does have the big rubber band for a card tool.

Def

[Steinar]

What, you mean reusing toothpaste and toilet paper is bad?   

Now that you mention it, it does say "recycled" on a lot of toilet paper packages... 

[Grant Lamontagne]

 

Def

[Steinar]

Are you recycling toiler paper or are you housebreaking your washing machine? 

[Lynn LeFey]

Lynn, that concept pretty much already exists.

Yeah, that's why I don't bother 'hiding' my ideas. They're never far enough up the new-idea stream. Everything I've thought of, someone has thought of before me.

[Steinar]

Lynn, that concept pretty much already exists.

Yeah, that's why I don't bother 'hiding' my ideas. They're never far enough up the new-idea stream. Everything I've thought of, someone has thought of before me.

Well... all features of an iPhone pretty much already existed before the iPhone as well... Anybody remember when people laughed at the iPhone because of its rather underwhelming specs?

(Disclaimer: I don't own an iPhone, I don't plan on owning an iPhone, but the success of the platform is indisputable.)

[Landrew]

I don't think Apple invented anything really, but they knew how to popularize all those things they are famous for.  But they will probably get credit for inventing all those things, just like Henry Ford and the automobile.

[MeadMaker]

I don't think Apple invented anything really, but they knew how to popularize all those things they are famous for.  But they will probably get credit for inventing all those things, just like Henry Ford and the automobile.

Uh oh Lnadrew.  You dared to say something unflattering about Apple.  That type of behavior has been known to bring the wrath of all those who have who have been assimilated by Apple.

[Landrew]

I don't think Apple invented anything really, but they knew how to popularize all those things they are famous for.  But they will probably get credit for inventing all those things, just like Henry Ford and the automobile.

Uh oh Lnadrew.  You dared to say something unflattering about Apple.  That type of behavior has been known to bring the wrath of all those who have who have been assimilated by Apple.

Yeah, I think the ghost of Steve Jobs is poking me in the backside.

Nope, nevermind, it's my Gerber Remix I'm sitting on.

[ironraven]

I don't think we can do much that is radical for the physical multitool- plenty of minor refinements, but unless someone can make a serious wrench based multi that is commercially viable, it's going to be knife-based multis (SAKs), butterfly pliers-based multis (Leathermen), and sliding pliers-based (Gerber) for the next few hundred years.

The digital multitool in the form of the PDA and now the smartphone is just starting.

But in terms of the original post, a pocket sized nano-tech based tool is a ways off. If we are willing to go with something about the size of a sneaker that would function as a controller and assembler, then I'm thinking it will be in my life time, but then we'll be programming it to make a wrench of a certain size, waiting a minute for it to bake, and then we put it back for salvage. Of course, the assembler will probably weigh like five, six pounds and need to be plugged in- it would basically be a portable 3d printer that can also recycle.

[dks]

I don't think Apple invented anything really, but they knew how to popularize all those things they are famous for.  But they will probably get credit for inventing all those things, just like Henry Ford and the automobile.

Uh oh Lnadrew.  You dared to say something unflattering about Apple.  That type of behavior has been known to bring the wrath of all those who have who have been assimilated by Apple.

Honestly Apple Vs the rest is the only topic that causes real arguments here.. 

On the previous posts:  Used colour catchers (ask the ladies) can be used as emergency toilet paper!!

[Landrew]

I don't think Apple invented anything really, but they knew how to popularize all those things they are famous for.  But they will probably get credit for inventing all those things, just like Henry Ford and the automobile.

Uh oh Lnadrew.  You dared to say something unflattering about Apple.  That type of behavior has been known to bring the wrath of all those who have who have been assimilated by Apple.

Honestly Apple Vs the rest is the only topic that causes real arguments here.. 

On the previous posts:  Used colour catchers (ask the ladies) can be used as emergency toilet paper!!

I don't want to cause unrest, I own an iPad for crying out loud!