Custom 111mm Damascus OH blade - who does it AND is willing to sell?

[HankSolon]

Does anyone knows someone who is making 111mm One Hand Damascus blades right for Victorinox knives?

I don't know if it has to be licensed by Victorinox or if there are any legal issues. I could of course by a 2012 damascus model and disassemble it. But this would be nonsense to my point of view.

Of course the blades have to be stainless and at least as hard as original blades. Swissbianco is no source to me. I already asked and feel that he is not willingly to support private modders. Sad thing.

[tattoosteve99]

Yes there are legal issues with that. I don't think Victorinox wants people to know where they come from. I do know that stainless Damascus is Very expensive. I've sourced it from a few places and I chose not to buy

[HankSolon]

Oh that's not good to hear of. I even thought of a mini serie (5-10 pieces, to drop the price a bit).

Damasteel offers knive material to a reasonable price. But cutting, carving and heat treating (with -80C) isn't something for me). However, if there are legal issues...

[tattoosteve99]

There are legal issues for Vic not for us to make our own. As long as we dont put their name on it or try to pass it off as theirs, we are ok

[HankSolon]

Well, I don't want Victorinox Stamps on that blade nor sell it as genuine Victorinox blade or something. It's primary for myself. So I'm fine.

So there's still this question: Who does and who sell's!

[tattoosteve99]

I just looked at damasteel. Wow great stuff and good pricing! As far as who would make them, I have no idea. I have done a few custom blades, but nothing along that line yet. Maybe soon I will try a few things if I get my milling machine, but right now I know of no one . Sorry

[Syph007]

I assume the damascus steel requires fancier (more complicated) heat treating etc?  The blades I had made up a blade maker made them for me as part of a trade deal, but Im handling the heat treat.  Im a novice in the blade making dept though, so I just learning about what I need to get into that.

[Sidhartha]

do you have a link to the see the price Steve?

[tattoosteve99]

Heres the link. Just remember the price is per inch!

http://www.ssdamascus.com/Products.html

@syph
Heat treating Damascus, either kind, is a bit tricky. Too hot and it will Seperate/melt, too cold and it wont temper right. Also bear in mind that when quenching Damascus, to prevent bowing, either put 2 higher melting steels to either side(clamped) or have a very fast and steady hand.

[Stew]

I assume the damascus steel requires fancier (more complicated) heat treating etc?  The blades I had made up a blade maker made them for me as part of a trade deal, but Im handling the heat treat.  Im a novice in the blade making dept though, so I just learning about what I need to get into that.

Terminology can be a bit confusing with this but in simplish terms...
Damasteel is a brand name and a stainless pattern welded steel that requires quite exacting heat treat involving soaking at a set temperature for a period of time. Accuracy is essential!

Damascus is not limited to carbon steels but usually the damascus you find is composed of two or more carbon steel. Carbon steels are usually simpler to heat treat, although not always - it depends!

So it's not the fact that it's damascus that makes it harder to heat treat but the steels used themselves.

[HankSolon]

For Damasteel a hardening process is described here:
http://damasteel.com/?page_id=192
Yeah right, -80C cooling required.

The steel ment here is called Martensitic Damascene Steel:
http://damasteel.com/?page_id=28
You can get this one just above HRC 60.

Edit: @Stew: Absolutely correct. Damascus is not limited to carbon steels (which can get very hard, but tend to rust).

[Stew]

For Damasteel a hardening process is described here:
http://damasteel.com/?page_id=192
Yeah right, -80C cooling required.

The steel ment here is called Martensitic Damascene Steel:
http://damasteel.com/?page_id=28
You can get this one just above HRC 60.

Edit: @Stew: Absolutely correct. Damascus is not limited to carbon steels (which can get very hard, but tend to rust).

The deep cooling is probably the easiest part of the process - a dewar of Liquid Nitrogen will do it. Of course you need to get your liquid nitrogen but as a process, it's simple.

The martensitic damasteel has rwl34 in it - you will still want to do a deep cool to get the best out of it.

Yes, carbon steels can rust but for me it's been a minimal problem. I don't oil my knives and barely find any rust on them but I also find a knife that gets any hint of rust comes off just through use (if there ever is any). I have three or four kitchen knives in carbon steel and they only have rust if left wet on the draining board.

[papercut]

I doubt the metalsmiths in ye olden times had access to liquid nitrogen, has the "secret" of real Damascus steel been rediscovered? 

[HankSolon]

For others it may be a problem. I have several razor knives (the old ones). And I have to treat them very carefully. (ballistol, keep dry etc.) But even there I cannot avoid the brown spots.

My 111mm blades will be used for outdoor knives which are used very irregulary. So rust is an issue.

@papercut: some knowledge abandoned, some new techniques are discovered... getting the old damascus is still very hard...

however: still on topic... who does? :-)

[Stew]

I doubt the metalsmiths in ye olden times had access to liquid nitrogen, has the "secret" of real Damascus steel been rediscovered? 

Very true but they didn't have stainless steel either so not really a problem - the LN is only used for stainless.

The secret re-discovered? It depends on what you class as real damascus but that's a whole other can of worms! Pattern welded damascus that we know these days is round and about. I've made a little.

[Wootz]

The real stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel

Wootz

[papercut]

Lol, it was wootz plus something else it seems. But what?

[Wootz]

Lol, it was wootz plus something else it seems. But what?

Hematite?

[HankSolon]

In Germany I found a smith who is willing to produce some already hardened blades made after a CNC-file-Template. There are some things which might interfere:

Price, Thickness, shape of the blade bevel, ... I'll update soon.

[HankSolon]

Ok I got a price for a damascus blade for a 93mm Alox knife. That was around 140€ (178 US$) for a single damascus blade if I would order something like 10 blades.

Edit: For me it's maybe too much, but for 2 blades for the personal use AND as a present it's somehow acceptable.

What would you accept as the highest price?

If there are enough people, willingly to get such a blade, maybe we can do something here.

[HankSolon]

Lol, I started a request in the german messerforum.net for people willingly to get a custom blade, too. But obvisiously I used the wrong topic. (I used "SAK" instead of "marketplace")

Reaction (within 5 minutes):
My thread was deleted.
I got 5 warning points (whatever that is for).
My account got disabled.
I got a nice message in the style of "a hitchikers guide to galaxy": With the rules you should have known that such posts are only ... bla. You now have 5 warning points.... bla

Edit: Oh I see, I'm no "member"... however. In Germany there will never be a revolution because on the green there are signs "Keep of the grass!".

[nuphoria]

Blimey... that all sounds rather stressful

[HankSolon]

Yeah, some people especially in my home country aren't very relaxed, especially if stupid rules aren't followed.

[tattoosteve99]

Yeah, some people especially in my home country aren't very relaxed, especially if stupid rules aren't followed.

Very very rarely that happens here . Usually just a polite pok or something .

[HankSolon]

So were ware we now?

I assume the following:
Noone except Syph and me wants to have a damascus blade for an 93mm Alox! (there where no reactions to "What would you accept as the highest price?")
Due to the fact, that the price for such an blade is very high, Syph and me can't take it on our shoulders alone. So I will cancel this project with that smith now.

Maybe I have another smith (which will do it cheaper) in the future. But then Syph and me order some 93mm blades only for us?

What about 111mm blades? Who would take some blades at which costs?

[Wootz]

Hank, thank you for your time and effort 
(the price is just too rich for my wallet).

[Wootz]

Lol, I started a request in the german messerforum.net for people willingly to get a custom blade, too. But obvisiously I used the wrong topic. (I used "SAK" instead of "marketplace")

Reaction (within 5 minutes):
My thread was deleted.
I got 5 warning points (whatever that is for).
My account got disabled.
I got a nice message in the style of "a hitchikers guide to galaxy": With the rules you should have known that such posts are only ... bla. You now have 5 warning points.... bla

Edit: Oh I see, I'm no "member"... however. In Germany there will never be a revolution because on the green there are signs "Keep of the grass!".

In the same way the germans are forcing the rules upon the rest of us in the european union.
(..perhaps I shouldn't have said that..  )

[enki_ck]

[moderator] Probably.    Let's leave it at that and get back on topic. Thread drift is allowed here but not into politics.   [/moderator]

[Wootz]

[moderator] Probably.    Let's leave it at that and get back on topic. Thread drift is allowed here but not into politics.   [/moderator]

[newbee] Sorry [/newbee]

"If something can be done the hard way, it is the task of the moderator to make that happen"



Edit: 

[HankSolon]

Ok: New offer from another smith:

93mm knife blade (alox right) for 95€ per blade. Anyone interested in joining?