Winter Magic 2023

[SurgeUk]

Not sure how the VAT stuff works between the UK and EU. It shows £83.33 without VAT.

If I can get one in the US around the $100 mark I’m in for one. It’s crazy, but not as crazy as a $100 SAK used to be.

VAT (Value Added Tax) is 20% and is added at the point of sale.

It is a national thing unlike some of the US State Taxes. It shows an ex-VAT price because, if you are buying it for" business use" you can buy it VAT free (claim it back) However, you would need to be registered as a business to do so.

[Huntsman]

Or if you are buying to ship abroad - you do not pay the VAT

I have found some sites offer this - some do not - great if they do of course - for out of country purchasers

... Still too expensive at £83.33  ;-)

[Simon_Templar]

I really don't like this almost predatory pricing from Vic these days - And they just seem to be aiming at collectors
What happened to the every day SAK for the regular guy on the street - What are you bringing out for him Victorinox ?    
Eg Regular Companion issue

  I reckon Victorinox is going through troubled times at the moment, and personally I don't mind them trying to milk collectors a bit to help them through those times.

Still, imho the price of a LE needs to stay in a certain relation to the price of the base model so that collectors can still "reasonably" justify the purchase to themselves. What's still justified is for each collector to figure out themselves. Personally, I consider twice the street price of the base model for one of the "usual" LEs (=run of 6000 or yearly limited editions) the maximum I am willing to pay if I REALLY like that LE.

The Winter Pioneer X was in that range and I never regretted buying it. The Winter Cadet seems to be way out of this range, and whilst I really like it very much and cannot exclude getting it at some point after all, if I had to pay the price purported in this thread I imagine I would have a guilty consciousness and feel a bit like a sucker. As in not showing around the SAK for fear of any knowledgeable people (rightfully?) thinking I am a foolish fan boy.

Lego has gone down that road quite far already and consequently lost me along the way (although Lego admittedly seems to do quite well with this approach - yet). I really hope Victorinox will not follow suit, as I am convinced this strategy will not pay off in the long run. Excellent quality at a reasonable price is the essence of what Victorinox is (and Lego used to be) and what got me hooked in the first place. Calculating with this attraction and my warm childhood memories to get to my wallet might eventually drive me away again.

Cheers,

Simon

[Simon_Templar]

Double post

[MacGyver]

Still, imho the price of a LE needs to stay in a certain relation to the price of the base model so that collectors can still "reasonably" justify the purchase to themselves.

I completely agree, but not just for collectors but all users in general. While i can understand that these models are more targeted for collectors, they still need to have a remotely reasonable price for any user that just want's something more special (as a one time deal) to buy.

I honestly could care less about collecting or collections, this is actually the first non-regular production line SAK i even considered buying, if it was at a reasonable price (base model price + acceptable premium). The absolute max i'd consider reasonable would be double the price of a regular production model.
This one is over 3 times the price of a regular Cadet, that's just insane.

I'm sure they will sell good nevertheless, just certainly NOT to me.

[gustophersmob]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the comments about pricing. 

For one, "reasonable" pricing is meaningless.  What's reasonable to one person is going to be exorbitant to another.  What's the "correct" price for a knife, collectible or otherwise? Ultimately, it is whatever people are willing to pay.  And its up to the company making it to produce them at a price that enough of the market will bear while earning a profit such that they can justify and recoup the capital investment in the business.  Otherwise they'll rightly earn a loss and go away.

Also, don't forget that in 2020 alone the US Federal Reserve created $6 Trillion dollars out of thin air (80% of all US dollars have been created in the last 3 years).  This isn't even accounting for what the SNB, ECB, BoE, etc printed.  This, by definition, is inflation, and it is being reflected in prices of everything.  Victorinox is not immune to it.

As to this specific model, we can do some comparisons to similar models:

In 2020 the basic cadet was ~$30USD.  Today it is $45USD.  So for a basic, standard production model with no new non-recurring expenses in capital equipment or tooling needed we've seen a 50% price increase. 

Also in 2020, the Pioneer winter magic was released at ~$85. If you assume its price would increase by 50% you end up with $127.50. 

But comparing the 2020 winter pioneer to the 2023 winter cadet isn't straight apples to apples.  They each require completely new tooling to create, vs just a different cellidor color using the same molds, or wood scales that can be laser engraved.  The non-recurring costs are going to be higher for these types of offerings, and duplicated for each.  Its not like the NRE for the 2020 pioneer eliminates additional tooling costs for the 2023 cadet.  Maybe the new tooling costs account for the increase in price over a standard model?  Who knows, but unless they're taking a loss on this product (or using their regular models to essentially subsidize it) they have to recoup those NRE expenses across a much smaller production run for a LE vs a regular production model, especially these one-off style alox scales.

So, given what we currently know about the pricing for the 2023 cadet, it looks like they are only passing along a similar increase as to a regular production alox cadet, likely driven almost completely by inflation. Using the no-VAT price of 83.3GBP, that's $108.  100GBP is $130.  Even if it ends up at $130 in the US, it looks like they are only passing along the inflationary price increase as seen in regular production models and not any addition cost due to new tooling.  If its closer to the $108 end of the range, then they are effectively charging less than in 2020.

[MacGyver]

In 2020 the basic cadet was ~$30USD.  Today it is $45USD.

Holly crap...   
A basic Cadet, $45USD? That's very expensive....

I can get them at €27,99 here...

[Myron]

Holly crap...   
A basic Cadet, $45USD? That's very expensive....

I can get them at €27,99 here...

And how much for a good bottle of dry red wine?  I can't wait to visit Portugal someday and camp on the beach, drink great wine cheaply, and eat fresh seafood everyday.  At least that's what they tell Americans it's like! 

[gustophersmob]

Holly crap...   
A basic Cadet, $45USD? That's very expensive....

I can get them at €27,99 here...

Yeah, I was a bit surprised myself!

[Enginears]

The Cadet price already seemed even more inflated than the Compact. It does not surprise me that its looking like it will be over $100. I do really like the looks here, a lot.

But I am seeing swiss army 7’s for $55, Farmers for $38, Pioneers $47 Etc etc. I could get so much more for that money. I have been slowly realizing I am not a huge fan of 84mms anyway though.

I am looking forward to seeing photos of these beauts in some of you guys hands.

[MacGyver]

And how much for a good bottle of dry red wine?  I can't wait to visit Portugal someday and camp on the beach, drink great wine cheaply, and eat fresh seafood everyday.  At least that's what they tell Americans it's like! 

Oh..., i'm not the greatest wine "connoisseur" or drinker at all.
I generally don't really drink wine, or much of alcoholic beverages for what it's worth.
You can have bottles ranging from €1,50 to over €400. The number of brands and variants is staggering.
It will depend on a lot of things, age, brand, type.... I guess you can get some very good wines in the €10 to €20 range, IMO even lower than that. Depends on individual taste.

Yes you have many places along the cost line with great beaches and great sea food, and great fish too 

[Swisster]

I'm only buying it because of the unique Alox. I don't even like Cadet's but I like the Alox on this one and it will be a piece that will increase in value a lot because it's different. I don't see it being more than $69.69 in the U.S. and I will buy a few of them. They will be over $200 each in a few years. Look what people pay for Yeoman's and Voyageur's and they aren't worth near what they sell for now and there is nothing unique about them other than they are no longer produced. Just buy a few of them and you will end up getting one for free in the long run

[gustophersmob]

I'm only buying it because of the unique Alox. I don't even like Cadet's but I like the Alox on this one and it will be a piece that will increase in value a lot because it's different. I don't see it being more than $69.69 in the U.S. and I will buy a few of them. They will be over $200 each in a few years. Look what people pay for Yeoman's and Voyageur's and they aren't worth near what they sell for now and there is nothing unique about them other than they are no longer produced. Just buy a few of them and you will end up getting one for free in the long run

Do you know that is what the price will be, or just speculating?

I think the 2020 winter magic pioneer x is a good example too.  Whenever I see them for sale they're asking $200+ for them.

[gustophersmob]

Listed on a NZ site for $119NZD:

https://www.blademaster.co.nz/product/victorinox-cadet-swiss-army-knife-2023-limited-edition-winter-magic/

[gustophersmob]

French site shows 68.90 EUR TTC (not sure what TTC is?) but out of stock:

https://www.universducouteau.fr/couteaux-suisses-84-mm/8180-couteau-suisse-cadet-alox-winter-magic-edition-limitee-2023.html

[MacGyver]

I'm only buying it because of the unique Alox. I don't even like Cadet's but I like the Alox on this one and it will be a piece that will increase in value a lot because it's different. I don't see it being more than $69.69 in the U.S. and I will buy a few of them. They will be over $200 each in a few years. Look what people pay for Yeoman's and Voyageur's and they aren't worth near what they sell for now and there is nothing unique about them other than they are no longer produced. Just buy a few of them and you will end up getting one for free in the long run

Are you seriously thinking in putting up a pile of money for a few of them just in hope you will be able to re-sell them again in a few years hoping they reach 200...?
If you don't mind spearing the money for that, best of luck with it then.

I'd honestly have other priorities for my money and my time. I guess i'd make a crappy investor, if i could ever afford to invest in anything...   

[z1913]

 TTC stands for toutes taxes comprises ("all taxes incuded")

[gustophersmob]

TTC stands for toutes taxes comprises ("all taxes incuded")

Thanks