Slip Joint Safety

[gustophersmob]

Not sure if this is the best sub-forum for this...

As I am wont to do, I tend to over analyze things.  The last couple of days I've been thinking about slip joints, and their safety.  I've been carrying and using a SAK for many years, and thankfully have yet to get bitten. But the thought of that strong backspring snapping that blade closed on my fingers makes my skin crawl.

This is primarily why I am trying out a Rebar as a possible EDC replacement for my Pioneer.  It would be very hard to close the Rebar blades on my fingers.

I know this is overly paranoid, and any knife is only as safe as the operator, but I was wondering what you folks thought?  Has anyone been bitten by a slip joint that they weren't abusing?

I really like my SAKs and I'm making myself overly paranoid, I think 

[kirk13]

In short,no!

I've had SAKs since I was twelve,never had it happen.Drivers yes,but only when I've been using them in inappropriate manners.

Had a UKPK close up on me too,which made me rethink OHO slip pies,but in fairness,it was getting into the abuse range of use too

[Boyo17]

I've never caught myself with a closing blade but have had too many close calls when the blade has slipped and started to close.  So I don't like slipjoints. 

However,,,,, the SAK's offer the best selection of blades for my use and the steel is good enough to get a shaving edge so I love them.

I modified my Wenger Alox Soldier to have a blade that could be selectively secured in the open position.  I don't think of it as a locker as such,, but as a knife that has a blade which will not shut unexpectedly.  My definition might not be shared by the Police but my life-stye doesn't take me to situations that might bring me into contact with them so I've stopped worrying about legality 

My knife also gained German Silver scales and brass liners,,,,,,

[greenbear]

I was taught as a Cub Scout to lay the body in the palm of my hand and fold the blade right back into the body, hold it throughout. I still do it now, and have not been bitten yet.  Cutting myself out of general clumsiness, well, that's another matter altogether 

[PTRSAK]

I haven't been bitten closing a blade,  but that saw got me once and now it has developed a taste for blood... 

[Taxi Dad]

i managed a nice little gash a few years ago, still have the battle scar  . i may have been partly at fault , i'm very heavy handed and slightly stooopid   
i've managed to cut myself with most of my knives at some stage, so i can't say that slippies are the most dangerous. I'd think 'locks' do make things safer but there may be a case for a false sense of security as well.

[kkokkolis]

My only scar is on my right index finger and dates almost 19 years ago, when I was serving rural service and opened a corned beef can with my Swisschamp. But it wasn't the Vic that cut me, it was the barbarian can metal. Lots of blood and I traveled overnight to Athens with a tight bandage because my wife gave birth to my daughter soon after.
All my slipjoint cuts (around 10-12) healed easy without scars, because Vics cut very cleanly and the trauma lips touch each other very nicely.

[Gareth]

As long as you are not bearing straight down on the point I really don't see the problem with slip joints.  Even if you do wish to push the tip of the knife into something all you need to do is keep in mind which way the knife might bend and use it at just a couple of degrees off true.

Great looking mod BTW Boyo.

[nuphoria]

Only ever been really cut up by a locking blade which I was trying to close in a stupid way

<---- KLUTZ

[Jamie_M]

I've never been bitten by slip joints, just locking blades. The combination of liner lock, stupidity, and being left handed is never good.

[nuphoria]

I've never been bitten by slip joints, just locking blades. The combination of liner lock, stupidity, and being left handed is never good.

That's exactly my problem in a nutshell

[gustophersmob]

I've never caught myself with a closing blade but have had too many close calls when the blade has slipped and started to close.  So I don't like slipjoints. 

However,,,,, the SAK's offer the best selection of blades for my use and the steel is good enough to get a shaving edge so I love them.

I modified my Wenger Alox Soldier to have a blade that could be selectively secured in the open position.  I don't think of it as a locker as such,, but as a knife that has a blade which will not shut unexpectedly.  My definition might not be shared by the Police but my life-stye doesn't take me to situations that might bring me into contact with them so I've stopped worrying about legality 

My knife also gained German Silver scales and brass liners,,,,,,

(Image removed from quote.)

That looks nice!  How does it work? By putting pressure on the backspring? 

[gustophersmob]

Thanks, all! I think I am being overly paranoid, especially since I've never been bit 

Besides, I was taught early on how to use a knife safely.

If there is one thing good about my paranoia, it has lead me to discover friction folders   

[Boyo17]

That looks nice!  How does it work? By putting pressure on the backspring? 
[/quote]

Thanks,,,,, The catch is a cam that stops the springs from moving.  See the two images on the left hand side of the pic above,,, Top image is with the catch extended and the gap to the springs can be seen,,,,,, bottom pic the catch is folded down against springs and the gap has gone.  I had to file the end of the springs to allow a 4mm radius around the third screw

[gustophersmob]

That looks nice!  How does it work? By putting pressure on the backspring? 

Thanks,,,,, The catch is a cam that stops the springs from moving.  See the two images on the left hand side of the pic above,,, Top image is with the catch extended and the gap to the springs can be seen,,,,,, bottom pic the catch is folded down against springs and the gap has gone.  I had to file the end of the springs to allow a 4mm radius around the third screw
[/quote]

That's a very clever design.  What size screws did you use for the pivots?  Did you have to drill out the tools?  More importantly, want to make me one?   

[Boyo17]

3mm screws and a 2.5mm drill cut off for the centre pin so didn't have to drill out any of the blades or springs. 2.5mm is the correct size drill to use for a 3mm thread so that worked out well.   

Sorry,,,,,, I just wouldn't have the same enthusiasm for somebody else's knife

[gustophersmob]

3mm screws and a 2.5mm drill cut off for the centre pin so didn't have to drill out any of the blades or springs. 2.5mm is the correct size drill to use for a 3mm thread so that worked out well.   

Sorry,,,,,, I just wouldn't have the same enthusiasm for somebody else's knife

I'm confused, the threads are a larger diameter than the drill hole 

I was kidding about you making one, but I may have a go at it myself.  Really is a simple, but genius idea 

[Boyo17]

There are no nuts on the other side of the knife,,,,, the threads are tapped directly into the scale,,,,,, so drill 2.5mm and tap 3mm

If you can't tap the threads yourself then 3mm dome nuts could be used on the back side,,,,

[gustophersmob]

Ahh, I see.  So the holes in the tools are 3mm?

I like this idea quite a bit and am looking at nickel silver and brass stock right now.

[Cupboard]

if you want to put an M3 bolt through, you drill 3mm. If you want to tap an M3 thread, you have to drill slightly smaller so it has something to bite on.

On topic, I had a scarily close encounter with my Kick whilst cutting cable ties off trussing standing at the top of a scaff tower. Depending on how you're using it, you can get in to a situation where the blade pings shut when the cable tie brakes, particularly if you're tired, in a hurry and not really thinking about it. When it happened I jumped, and that sent the whole tower wobbling around which really put the wind up me. I sold the Kick after that and haven't carried a non-locking bladed tool for heavy use/abuse since.

[stealth007s]

I may be the only idiot to have a Swiss Champ split my thumb about a half inch deep. I was making a hole in a plastic buckle to thread paracord through and the main blade folded in on me. Looking back, I should've used the awl and it wouldn't have happened. Roughly a dozen stitches and remarkably no scaring. Oh yeah, it hurt bad. I try not to use many slip joints now, only lockers for me. This may be why I don't have many SAKs (only 2).

[cbl51]

Yes, you are being a little paranoid, but that is good, as it will make you cautious. I've been using slip joints all my life, and I'm a social security senior citizen now. I've worked in the blue collar trades where a sharp pocket knife is part of your tools. But I have never ever cut myself when using the slip joint for a cutting tool as it was designed.

But...
 
I have seen two very disastrous accidents with young guys using a locking blade knife, and having total fatih that it would not fold over on them, and they got careless. One case was a young guy using a Buck 110 folding hunter. He leaned on it, andit collapsed, and neatly amputated his right index finger, and almost took off his middle finger. He'd been told not to do that, but hs smart a-- answer was "It's Buck knife, it's meant to take it." In addition to loosing his finger, he was fired for violating shop safety rules,  so it was a loose/loose day for him.

The second case was, I needed some minor surgery on my leftthumb for a tendon problem. My better half and I were at a hand surgery clinic waiting in the waiting room to be called back. Sitting in the room  wuth us was a young man with his mother. He had his right hand bandaged up, and in conversation it came out that he was messing around with one of those tactical kind of knives the young kids like, and the blade lock failed, and almost cut off his finger, but severed some very impotant ligiments and tendons. The surgons were going to try to give him back some use of his damaged fingers.

I'll put it this way, with a slip joint, I know as sure as the sun rises in the east, it's going to close on me if I do something stupid. So it makes me be careful and conscious of what I'm ding. A lockbnlade is only as strong as the pounds of torgue it takes to over power the lock. It will fail, and when it  does, it will fail suddenly and totally.

If I want a knife that I know will not fail on me, then it's time to use a fixed blade. A small pocket fixed blade is safe, all others are not. I view a locking blade knife as a accident waiting to happen from bad knife handing habits getting started because of a false sense of security.

[Essexman]

As above, treat every slipjoint with respect, and treat every folder as a slipjoint, only then will you come to no harm.

[Gareth]

cbl51 makes an excellent point.   I use every folding knife as I would a slip joint, whether there happens to be a lock on it or not.

[Syph007]

Ive never folded a slipjoint on myself ever.  My dad taught me how to work one with I was 6 and Ive been using them ever since.  I dont actually tend to like lockblade knives.  I like poicket slipjoints and fixed blades.  Ive never needed anthing in between.  The worse injuries ive had are from the saws on SAKs.  They tear flesh alot more than a plain blade, and is another reason I dont like serrated blades.

[jerseydevil]

As above, treat every slipjoint with respect, and treat every folder as a slipjoint, only then will you come to no harm.

+1    I carry a slipjoint every day, and have never cut myself with one.  Cuts come from being a bit stupid with locking blades..... 

[AimlessWanderer]

As above, treat every slipjoint with respect, and treat every folder as a slipjoint, only then will you come to no harm.

Well said Mark 

Slipjoints (or spring knives as they were originally called here) have been in use for centuries. The only thing that's changed is the levels of common sense of their operators. Used with respect, these tools will keep working and working safely. Locking knives are a misnomer in many ways as excellently pointed out by cbl51. Not only do they lull people into a false sense of security that their blade is now "fixed", but with many locks (liner and backlock especially) you have to put your fingers under the path of the folding blade to release them.

 

Aside from the odd multitool or two  that has a locking blade, generally speaking I'll be carrying a slipjoint blade or fixed blade. Even if I do have a locking bladed multi, I'll often have a secondary knife which doesn't have a stupid lock on it for doing things safely. I'll be honest, occasionally I do carry a locking blade as a dedicated knife, but at no point will I treat it any differently to a slippy. Locking blades have bit me many more times than slippies, and I wasn't even abusing them - they're EVIL!!!

[Taxi Dad]

ONE wise old member already mentioned the 'false sense of security' you can get with lock-knives on this thread 

[cbl51]

Keep in mind, that simple folding knives with not even a back spring like a slip joint, have been in use for 2000 years. All the way back to the time of the Romans. Simple friction folders have been in use in Europe for common everyday cutting for hundreds of years. I've been using more and more friction folders in my day to day life, and not having even a back spring to hold the knife open is not a problem. The dynamic forces in the action of cutting hold even a strait friction folder open.

My Sardinian Pattada is a very good day to day pocket knife with zero springs. Just a firm friction fit
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8400/8687660896_630e4799f6_c.jpg

[Swiss Man]

It's like "a rite of passage" to have a blade close on you.