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Combining tools and making room for more.

us Offline David Bowen

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Combining tools and making room for more.
on: December 09, 2006, 01:21:16 AM
Dear Mt.org members,

Victorinox is the granfather of cramming as many tools into one package as humanly possible, they can put numerous impliments on one tool saving space and room for others. Most manufacturers dont do much of this and some are starting to try. While reading some in depth stuff about the paladin power play 540 I notice the notes say the file also doubles as a #6 slotted screwdriver! Now the Powerlock has a rounded end on it's file but a Power Plier is flat (#6?) What happened to the evolution and how did it skip the Powerlock? I have been muddling over the new PowerPlay review we have and all of the info/pics about them, I feel SOG's new tool has to be a spin off of the PPP for the general market. SOG hasn't innovated on any of it's tools in a while, the V-Cutter being the only new thing to come out of them in a while. So is the PPP what they have up thier sleeve for us? They still tweaking and combining tools? Or is there something bigger and better?

Ok maybe I got off track, just let me wipe the drool off my mouth. What I was making a point of is.....why don't more tool manufacturers put more than one function into a tool. Take a look at Vic and learn from your competitors. Like we have talked about in our Evolution and our Dinosaur thread, tools are dwinding in terms of how many companies make them, and there isn't much more to innovate on.....or is there? How much longer can a tool be just a tool? Ok I am done rambling for now, please anyone interject some thoughts on this....come on Def, I know you want too....you too Dunc and J-Sews.

David


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #1 on: December 09, 2006, 01:43:44 AM
The Origin of the Tool Species huh?  Darwin would be proud of you!

I have said it before, Victorinox is the undisputed kind of combining tools- a SAK with 5 or 6 implements can easily have a dozen features because they combine tools.  Look at the old 108mm GAKs for example.  The saw on an old GAK (German Army Knife for those who don't know) features a wood saw, can opener, bottle opener, screwdriver for flatheads and phillips screws and some also have a file/matchstriker on the side.  And that's just one implement!

I am glad to see other manufacturers getting on board with various uses for each tool.  I am surprised that Victorinox didn't come up with the screwdriver end on a file, but then they have flathead ends on screwdrivers, can openers and other tools, so maybe they decided they had enough?  After all, how many flatheads does one person need? :P

What's the next generation going to look like?  I dunno, but I think the Paladin Tools might be a precursor to the next generation of SOG, whicgh is good, because while I like the PowerLock, it is an old design that is getting left behind by innovations from other manufacturers. 

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


Offline bobofish

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #2 on: December 09, 2006, 02:10:02 AM
It always bothers me how "either or" the multi tools are.

In other words, Either you can have a ton of tools that accomplish moderate to easy tasks brilliantly, OR you can have a few tools that accomplish moderate to heavy tasks brilliantly, or or or.

You can have compound leverage, but you have to put up with blood blisters and no one hand opening on a SOG
You can have good pliers, but no CL and no customization with Leatherman. But they do have one handed opening.
Swisstools give you one handedness, but ho-hum pliers, but they give you every tool you might ever need while camping.

I understand that patents and innovation are closely linked, but it bothers me that so many companies only solve one problem, often at the expense of some other feature. As a some time inventor, I've learned over the years that you're better off solving all the known problems that you possibly can, before you present something; otherwise you're not going to cover all your bases, and are going to lose business.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #3 on: December 09, 2006, 03:07:02 AM
I think what you are getting at is the whole "No such thing as a perfect tool" problem we all face.  It's a sad fact of multi ownership that there is no one tool that does it all, which isn't really all that bad since it gives us the option of getting all kinds of different tools with the money we'd otherwise waste on RRSP's, children's college funds and so on.

I think what Dave is talking about is getting the most out of your tool by having as many different functions in as few implements as possible.  Some of the tools that Victorinox for example offers, like the afore mentioned 108mm saw are works of art in their abilities, yet are simplistic enough that just about everyone should be doing it.

Most of the other manufacturers make one tool and it does it's thing, sometimes well, sometimes not so well, but always just one or two functions.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #4 on: December 09, 2006, 03:13:47 AM
.....Some of the tools that Victorinox for example offers, like the afore mentioned 108mm saw are works of art in their abilities, yet are simplistic enough that just about everyone should be doing it.

Any pictures handy of that afore mentioned 108mm saw?
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


us Offline parnass

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #5 on: December 09, 2006, 03:16:19 AM
The bit driver attachment is a way to increase flexibility by using the multitool as a handle for a variety of bits. 

I like the way hex shank bits can be inserted into the handle of the Leatherman Crunch by removing the adjuster screw.  This takes up less space than the SOG PowerLock's bit driver scheme.
Retired engineer, author.

A man with one multitool always knows exactly which to use. A man with many multitools is never quite sure. - parnass


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #6 on: December 09, 2006, 03:26:31 AM
The afore mentioned 108mm saw...

Sorry the pic stinks- I'll try to get a better one later.

Def

* saw01.JPG (Filesize: 24.92 KB)
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


england Offline Dunc

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #7 on: December 09, 2006, 11:34:25 AM
Leatherman seem to be exploring the bit holder system quite extensively what with driver bits and removable saws and files . Also Gerber are by no means new to this and as far as I know are the only manufactorer who has changable plier heads .If you have too many features on one tool you are in danger of it becoming to big and heavy so I think swappable accessories are the way things will go .

Dunc


Offline Tom Munch

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #8 on: December 09, 2006, 04:20:34 PM
I don't have many Gerbers, but I do admire their use of combining tools on the Recoil.



I think the tool makers are just not creative enough to design multiple uses into each tool.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #9 on: December 09, 2006, 05:50:07 PM
I've been looking at those Recoils for a while now... I think I may just have to break down and get one soon...

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #10 on: December 09, 2006, 07:32:49 PM
I was just looking at 665ae's ToolClip. That big serrated blade has a flathead screwdriver tip on the end, a v-notch wire stripper near the base, and a double cut file on the back side.

I'd say that's a pretty good example of combined tools.
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #11 on: December 09, 2006, 07:37:35 PM
Indeedy doo...

That is exactly what kind of thing each tool should have to maximize function while minimizing the size and weight of the multitool.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


Offline damota

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #12 on: December 09, 2006, 10:35:35 PM
Also Gerber are by no means new to this and as far as I know are the only manufactorer who has changable plier heads .If you have too many features on one tool you are in danger of it becoming to big and heavy so I think swappable accessories are the way things will go .

Dunc
Gerber seem to have back tracked on the Evolution idea and are now producing the different heads as stand alone tools. I would think one good reason is the loss of one handed operation on the multi headed tool. Note how they have not advanced the Legend design apart from the Urban that was cheaper

Dave


us Offline parnass

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Re: Combining tools and making room for more.
Reply #13 on: December 10, 2006, 03:43:16 AM
One peril in combining tools is that you can compromise their quality.   For example, the combination can opener / small screwdriver  in the SOG PowerLock S60 is ineffective for rececessed screws (show in bottom of photo).

This point was driven home when I needed to replace a battery in an outdoor temperature sensor and my S60 could not reach the screws.  My other multitools could.
small-screwdriver-comparison.jpg
* small-screwdriver-comparison.jpg (Filesize: 36.16 KB)
Retired engineer, author.

A man with one multitool always knows exactly which to use. A man with many multitools is never quite sure. - parnass


 

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