Website or Book?

[jaydar]

And I am sure if you need photos of anything not yet in your collection , I am sure someone will be able to provide some ....  I have a few soldiers I can snap

[Cupboard]

A model of publishing that I really like and may be applicable:

http://www.withouthotair.com/

[GigaHz]

Give us a peak at the first chapter?

[firiki]

A book is more alluring for me, though a website or an e-book have their advantages. Either way I think it would be great if you took the time to write all that stuff down for the world to know and I certainly look forward to seeing the fruits of this venture. I think a printed book might take a little longer due to research and chapter planning  but it's definately worth it IMHO

[jeroen.thys.37]

keep us updated. I'd buy a book.

+1 

[jazzbass]

Thought I'd post an update on the book. It is now books, not book. Originally my idea was to write about both simultaneously. I figured that yes, there are some minor difference in tool changes of the years (e.g. 84mm knives get 2.0mm blades at least 10 yrs before 91mm ones do), but the vast majority of the changes happened simultaneously and could be documented as such.

Well, as I started organizing my research I've found there are a lot more differences than I originally thought. Trying to write about both product lines in the same chapter ends up being confusing, and if I break them out into their own separate sets of chapters, it essentially becomes two books. So that's what I've decided to do - write an 84mm and a 91mm book following the same basic format. I also realized while compiling a list of all known models of knives that there's a hell of a job ahead of me. I documented 48 different 84mm models and 125 different 91mm models, including all special run models that I know of.

Good news from Ibach - Victorinox has given me permission to use their trademarks in the book, which is a pretty big relief. I'm not sure what the laws are regarding using a company's trademarks in a written work (with pictures) - can you do it without permission under fair use? No clue, but unsurprisingly Victorinox is being very helpful and supportive of this effort so it's not something I have to worry about. They really are a great company.

Finally - I'd like some opinions. In outlining the section on the different knife models I decided that for ease of reference I want to have a unique name for each different model of knife. The plan is to list all "aliases" under the name (e.g. The Artisan, aka Craftsman), but each model should get it's own "reference" name. The problem is Victorinox has recycled a lot of names and many knives don't have unique names. Three in particular I'm thinking of are the Angler, Craftsman, and Handyman. These are all names that refer to current production knives. However, pre-1987, these names were used on different models.

My plan is to use any name currently in use to refer to the model currently in production. So, if I refer to a "Handyman", that means the current incarnation of that model (Ranger w/ pliers), and not the older version (Ranger w/ fish scaler). So what to call the older version?

- Handyman Classic
- Handyman Original
- Something else

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

[ColoSwiss]

You might try:

Handyman (1)
Handyman (2)
Handyman (3)

with the oldest first. If a new version shows up it's easy to add a number.

Sounds like progress is being made. Looking forward to the final product(s).

[ICanFixThat]

A.very good choice i think not trying to mix 84mm and 91mm.

[comis]

My plan is to use any name currently in use to refer to the model currently in production. So, if I refer to a "Handyman", that means the current incarnation of that model (Ranger w/ pliers), and not the older version (Ranger w/ fish scaler). So what to call the older version?

- Handyman Classic
- Handyman Original
- Something else

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

Considering these 'books' might be published in 2013/2014, I do agree it's best to use what most public known or Victorinox is using for the current models.  But make very clear references where the same name will occur at the end of that section, so people could trace the history of the 'name'.

Few other humble suggestions for avoiding repeated-name confusion:

1) Categories everything under different era
If possible, make the separation of these eras meaningful.(every 20 years, expansion of plant, change of style, world events, CEO changes, etc)  So people will know if a name occured in that era, and also easy to make association between the era and the product.  The good thing is, if there is a new revised book/info, it is easy to pickup where it is left off(for you or for future writer).


2) 2 Categories: Current production vs Ceased production
Again, these two categories, will be time-proof.  But the tricky part is, if the books were to be revised in the future, some currently produced products might become 'ceased production' and reading old/new book together could be confusing to reader(especially if name is re-used).


3) Method of elimination + Other fun reading material
This really has to do with how to organize the book and the goal of writing it.  If it is to aim potential collectors to quickly identify something, then I do strongly recommend to categorize around the physical appearance of the tool(scale, tool shape/size/design, blade, shape, material, trademark, etc) and their history of development.

With good pictures of everything, we could quickly deduct when(or when not) the tool is made.  Of course, some section could be donated to write about maybe the top ten most popular/long-lasting models, and detail their history/story of use/evolution for the fun read.


These 'books' idea is so exciting, and just thrilled to see someone to be so dedicated to pass down the knowledge in some form.  On the premise to not lose money, I for one will vote against the ebook before the book, simply because it will lessen the desire for people to purchase the book.  It is might not be fair for someone to work hard to put these together and in the end have to bear all the financial risk by.  On the other hand, if a book is published, depending on budget/time/desire, a new revision could always be printed in ebook or new book format in the distant future.

Another thing is to consider a good service to collectors who really need to identify a dated piece on the internet, it will be super nice to have a website built similar to a SAK selector, so by clicking the features, it will eventually yield some exact results(with pictures?) or some approximate-time-of-production suggestion.  Of course, this kind of project could be maintained by a small knowledgeable group of people, so the fire could be passed on in the future.

[sawman]

This is great news. I can't wait for the book(s) 

[North Man]

Yes i am sure the books will be very good 

[jazzbass]

Few other humble suggestions for avoiding repeated-name confusion:

1) Categories everything under different era

I have a two level Periodization (eras and periods) that I developed years ago that will be a central part of the books. A couple of the other collectors here have seen it, but I never posted explicitly about it. The chapter on this periodization system I developed is actually the first one I'm working one; maybe I post a draft version of the chapter later this week if anyone is interested.

2) 2 Categories: Current production vs Ceased production

This doesn't work very well because many knives can be out of production but later remade (e.g. The Yeoman, currently revived by SwissBianco).

As for everything else, well I have a pretty detailed outline of the book already worked up and I'm going to start working from there.  I'll put it this way - I want to make the book that I, as a fairly serious collector, always wished had existed.

[comis]

Few other humble suggestions for avoiding repeated-name confusion:

1) Categories everything under different era

I have a two level Periodization (eras and periods) that I developed years ago that will be a central part of the books. A couple of the other collectors here have seen it, but I never posted explicitly about it. The chapter on this periodization system I developed is actually the first one I'm working one; maybe I post a draft version of the chapter later this week if anyone is interested.

2) 2 Categories: Current production vs Ceased production

This doesn't work very well because many knives can be out of production but later remade (e.g. The Yeoman, currently revived by SwissBianco).

As for everything else, well I have a pretty detailed outline of the book already worked up and I'm going to start working from there.  I'll put it this way - I want to make the book that I, as a fairly serious collector, always wished had existed.

...
As for everything else, well I have a pretty detailed outline of the book already worked up and I'm going to start working from there.  I'll put it this way - I want to make the book that I, as a fairly serious collector, always wished had existed.

Can't hardly wait!

I am fairly new to the whole SAK collecting game, and I do often think about what are the good ways to appraise/collect/document/track/store the SAKs that interest me or those I have collected.  It'd be great if the book could shed some light to new collectors/SAKs lovers, what are different ways to organize this whole thing.

[firiki]

I want to make the book that I, as a fairly serious collector, always wished had existed.

  That's the spirit. I encourage you to take your time and envision the most functional and comprehensive way to tackle your topic. I'm sure you are aware of many issues that need to be addressed. (In the past I used to make translations for a living. Sometimes I found out that what I had written down was good but could be made even better through text structure. Likewise I think you could use some meticulous planning )

As for the recurring model names, I think I would go for something like (random dates as I'm not sure):

 1970-1985 Handyman (Ranger w/ fish scaler). That way you keep the model's name, era and variations all in one place and make it easy to keep track of the timeline. That's just me though. Anyway, I think that writting these books is very good for you first of all and also for the rest of us SAK enthusiasts. Good luck to you -coming from a bloody perfectionist   

[AimlessWanderer]

I'll put it this way - I want to make the book that I, as a fairly serious collector, always wished had existed.

Perfect approach IMHO 

Best of luck with it 

[ICanFixThat]

I'll put it this way - I want to make the book that I, as a fairly serious collector, always wished had existed.

Perfect approach IMHO 

Best of luck with it 

+1   

[jaydar]

Sorry to drag this up from the depths.

I was looking at a project on Kickstarter and it seems a lot of staggeringly obscure titles are being funded successfully at the moment

I was looking at



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-story-of-the-oliver-twins?ref=users

I don't think it can get more obscure than a book about a small software house , who mainly produced games for 1980's home computers ..... don't get me wrong I think its great and I would happily invest in this very book I think the world will be a better place with this in it

This was a nice looking book as well



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darrenwall/sega-mega-drive-genesis-collected-works/description

It just seemed to me a possible way that a book or books could be supported with lots of different levels of support from a PDF of the final book up to a Hand Illustrated hard back on vellum 

My main driver for bringing this up again is I was using my favorite reference book "British Military Timepieces" last night , and wishing I had the same for my knives  .This book was written by a collector and is one of the best books I own and is considered to be the definitive work on the subject ....( it was also one of the most expensive books I have ever bought > $180 but well worth it it is a thing of beauty ) ....

http://www.knirim.de/english.htm

If you ever decided to look into this I would like to think it would be a very popular project

[detron]

Thought I'd post an update on the book. It is now books, not book. Originally my idea was to write about both simultaneously. I figured that yes, there are some minor difference in tool changes of the years (e.g. 84mm knives get 2.0mm blades at least 10 yrs before 91mm ones do), but the vast majority of the changes happened simultaneously and could be documented as such.

Well, as I started organizing my research I've found there are a lot more differences than I originally thought. Trying to write about both product lines in the same chapter ends up being confusing, and if I break them out into their own separate sets of chapters, it essentially becomes two books. So that's what I've decided to do - write an 84mm and a 91mm book following the same basic format. I also realized while compiling a list of all known models of knives that there's a hell of a job ahead of me. I documented 48 different 84mm models and 125 different 91mm models, including all special run models that I know of.

Good news from Ibach - Victorinox has given me permission to use their trademarks in the book, which is a pretty big relief. I'm not sure what the laws are regarding using a company's trademarks in a written work (with pictures) - can you do it without permission under fair use? No clue, but unsurprisingly Victorinox is being very helpful and supportive of this effort so it's not something I have to worry about. They really are a great company.

Finally - I'd like some opinions. In outlining the section on the different knife models I decided that for ease of reference I want to have a unique name for each different model of knife. The plan is to list all "aliases" under the name (e.g. The Artisan, aka Craftsman), but each model should get it's own "reference" name. The problem is Victorinox has recycled a lot of names and many knives don't have unique names. Three in particular I'm thinking of are the Angler, Craftsman, and Handyman. These are all names that refer to current production knives. However, pre-1987, these names were used on different models.

My plan is to use any name currently in use to refer to the model currently in production. So, if I refer to a "Handyman", that means the current incarnation of that model (Ranger w/ pliers), and not the older version (Ranger w/ fish scaler). So what to call the older version?

- Handyman Classic
- Handyman Original
- Something else

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

I know I am late, but....  that is good news about the use of the trademark!

I know your day job and life in general are priorities #1 and #2,  but just so you know,  there are still some of us out here who are ready to buy your works once they are released.  the interest level has not diminished

[SAK Guy]

+1

[ColoSwiss]

Definitely looking forward to the book(s).   

[Steinar]

And while we're wating for the book (I would personally happily buy an electronic version, but I'd probably not anything coffee table style from dead trees), we really appreciate they way you're sharing your research materials in different threads on the forum.

[Storky]

I'll put it this way - I want to make the book that I, as a fairly serious collector, always wished had existed.

Perfect approach IMHO 

Best of luck with it 

I buy one 

[detron]

And while we're wating for the book (I would personally happily buy an electronic version, but I'd probably not anything coffee table style from dead trees), we really appreciate they way you're sharing your research materials in different threads on the forum.

I feel the same way, and you try to express gratitude for his help, but it just does not seem like enough.

I would probably by both the electronic and the printed version.

[Aloha]

And while we're wating for the book (I would personally happily buy an electronic version, but I'd probably not anything coffee table style from dead trees), we really appreciate they way you're sharing your research materials in different threads on the forum.

 
 Your generosity and knowledge are wonderful.   

[detron]

/joking

Maybe jazzbass is just waiting for there to be 500 posts in this thread before announcing hi book   
/joking

in all seriousness I try to gleam as much as I can from his prior posts, and there is some amazing info squirreled away in the forum.

My hopes are high for the books, simply do to the fact that I know how helpful he is here on the forum.  He does not simply say "Circa 1972", he explains why, which educates those of us who are eager for this knowledge. 


I hate to even say this, people might think I am being greedy, but I am just sharing my thoughts.  I know jazzbass already does enough for us, and I am not complaining.

I would even enjoy a "jazzbass 91 & 84 monthly newsletter"  I would pay for that!   even if it was different info than the books,  things like ebay trends, average SAK price versus inflation,   or just things he has already done in the forum, like his unusual SAK thread.

[marduk]

I'm glad to hear that you're making good progress. Just a bit of advice that you should consider. When you're nearing completion, ask one of our knowledgeable members to go over the proofs. You'll be surprised how easy it is to overlook simple mistakes. Your eyes can deceive you no matter how many times you may have gone over the material yourself. I speak from personal experience. Those damned errors! How did I miss them?

[jazzbass]

Funny to see this thread resurface. The book is still in the works, albeit slower than I'd hoped. A good 75% of the delay is just life - getting kids through high school (one down, one to go) and working for a start up company. The rest is fleshing out my research. The thing that I hope will set this book apart from others is that most of the details - especially in tool evolution - are based on observation, not various "facts" or innuendo floating around the internets. All written details about tool evolution, dates, etc. I try to verify through observation.

You'd be surprised at how many of the facts - some that come straight from Victorinox themselves - are not supported by observation. Quick example - Vicotrinox's own PR info says:

1973 Magnifying glass and Phillips screwdriver, small blade with pointed tip instead of the old shape.
1977 Small screwdriver (on the back of the knife).

So - four years difference between dropping the clip point pen blade and the intro of the small screwdriver back tool. So we should be able to observe this - there should be no knives with clip point pen blades and fine screwdrivers, there should be some early 70s knives with drop point pen blades and no fine screwdriver, and then we should see the typical drop point + fine screwdriver combos.

That's what we should see, but we don't. What we do see is that the fine screwdriver is introduced well before the change in the pen blade shape. There are a significant number of Craftsmans, Handymans, mag glass Champions, Rangers and Grand Prixs out there with clip point pen blades and fine screwdrivers. I have probably 10 in my collection alone, and many more in my auction database. So which data point is wrong then? In this case I'd bet money on the 1977 date for the intro of the fine screwdriver. The 1973 date for the pen blade change is supported by other data, so I think the date for the screwdriver is wrong.

This is just one example of many that I've found. The point I'm getting to is that taking this approach requires lots and lots of data. Both collected (which I've done well) and cataloged correctly (which I've done a little less well). The more data I collect, the better I am at reconstructing the history of these knives. This thread was started 2 years ago, and since that time I've learned things about early knife development that have caused me to rewrite a LOT of my initial chapters on early knife and tool development.

At this point, the main task is to catalog all my knives and the knives I've see sold in a way that lets me arrange them in chronological order. Once that's done (and this process has started), then I can get to writing in earnest.

[SAK Guy]

I'll go on record now and say I'll be buying one when they come out.

[sLaughterMed]

good luck Jazzbass. I look foward to seeing the fruits of your labor, and hope that you will be satisfied with the results. Its one tthing to have a hobby or a collection. Its another to have a significant impact on the realm of that hobby. You are working to better your hobby, and enrich and enlighten your fellow collectors. Even though I don't collect SAKs myself, I can certainly appreciate what you are doing.

[windson]

I'll go on record now and say I'll be buying one when they come out.

Same here.