LM Charge TTi vs. Victorinox Spirit (standard)

cliosguy · **Reply #60 on:** April 26, 2009, 11:02:06 PM

Quote from: noth on April 26, 2009, 10:57:02 PM

Oh yes... and vi rulez, emacs sucks...

WHAT!!!! are you nuts?

?!!!!!!

Nikos · **Reply #61 on:** April 26, 2009, 11:05:03 PM

Nuts is my middle name...

(this thread commanded some derailment anyway...)

cliosguy · **Reply #62 on:** April 26, 2009, 11:13:39 PM

it took a bit doesnt it?

Buzzbait · **Reply #63 on:** April 27, 2009, 03:10:05 AM

Quote from: DaveK on April 26, 2009, 06:45:53 PM

You know what I meant, but if it helps, then "significant parts of your argument aren't facts".

Mathematically speaking, the significant majority of my argument is unerringly factual. This majority cannot be refuted. The rest is the direct result of anecdotal evidence, collected by me for a period of about 15 years. I'm sorry, but I've had a number of Leatherman tools rust on me. I've never had a Vic rust on me, despite intentional abuse. I'll lay down the challenge right now. Place a new Charge and a new Spirit into a bottle containing a mild salt solution, for a period of one day. If the Vic ends up with a larger surface area of rust, I'll buy the rusted tool off of you for the US MSRP. Put your Charge where your mouth is. I am that confident that the Spirit is significantly more rust resistant than a Charge.

Quote

then people slip back into blinkered, biased diatribe.

I agree that there is a significant amount of common sense in this thread. Many people have chosen their winner, and sited reasons for their choice. Others have stated valid reasons for not favoring one tool over the other.

Pretty much the only person who has flatly run on with "biased diatribe" is you. You have sited little to no factual evidence to support your claims, and instead used comments such as "Why carry a seperate knife to compensate for the Spirit's as has been suggested, when the Charge gives you a premium PE and a 440C SE? Why faff about getting at a small blade, when you can open the Charge's blades as quickly as an AO dedicated blade? I can see that some people think this "fit and finish" (which is just another word for pretty I guess) is something special, but I simply don't get that at all." That is diatribe, and is pointedly biased.

You have also resorted to the gross generalization of "You know what I meant". I for one do not know. You wrote "Can somebody explain to me, one thing that the Spirit does better than a Charge that makes you all think it's a better tool?" I took the time to do just that in my initial post, and then went on to create a list. You have flatly dismissed all that I've written, saying "Most of these aren't facts at all, they are characteristics of the Spirit that you prefer or have become deluded about." For all of the friendliness in this thread, you have been the only one to be distinctly unfriendly. And it seems as if the unfriendliness has been directed toward me, one of the two people who took the most time to state their argument and back up that argument. Personally, I think that you owe an apology to Leatherman123, whose excellent thread you have hijacked for your own personal crusade.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #64 on:** April 27, 2009, 03:53:23 AM

Gentlemen, let's please keep this reasonable and friendly.

The reality is, there are many tools on the market simply because each persons needs are different from that of the next person. Otherwise, it would be a pretty boring industry, and this would be an amazingly lame forum. Let's celebrate our differences here.

Personally, I prefer the Spirit, but then I have three of them and probably 6 or 7 Charges. They are both good tools, and I don't think you could go wrong with either of them. Some people like one over the other, and some people don't like either, and that's ok. Let's try to keep sight of that fact.

Def

DaveK · **Reply #65 on:** April 27, 2009, 03:54:05 AM

Thanks for your take on what went by on this thread, here's another way of interpreting it.

I can see from your first paragraph that you haven't actually studied maths or statistics, otherwise you'd realise that your attempt at mathematics is a little strange, and that's being kinder than you have been towards me. If you state something as a fact and it isn't that's significant in a debate about facts. A mathematician would know that. Again, the fact that you've never seen rust on a Vic is clearly down to your limited experience, I've seen loads.

I'm really not interested in your challenge, it's a little pathetic to be honest.

Now, onto your personal attack on me and my post.....

I posted on this thread, (the sort of thread that I generally go out of my my way to avoid incidentally), because Leatherman123 sent me a PM asking me to post on here and support him. That OK with you?

I chose to do that using a little irony (www.dictionary.com), and you chimed in with your "anecdotal evidence" in reply to a request for facts, so I can see you haven't studied law either.

Quote from: Buzzbait on April 27, 2009, 03:10:05 AM

For all of the friendliness in this thread, you have been the only one to be distinctly unfriendly. And it seems as if the unfriendliness has been directed toward me, one of the two people who took the most time to state their argument and back up that argument.

Are you serious? Don't flatter yourself. Your latest diatribe was the first thing resembling any personal accusations or attacks, so don't go trying to humiliate me until you've got your facts straight - OK? You will notice that on a number of occasions I referred to the fact that some of these, and similar, opinions stated as facts are becoming quite frequent on this forum. It bothers me, and I know it bothers many others, because we discuss it regularly. Having only been here for a couple of weeks, you may not appreciate that, so it might be worth reading things properly before picking a fight with one of the sad b*stards like myself that have been around for a while - that will give you some context. If I wasn't clear, or you misinterpreted what I was asking, then surely you must have got it after subsequent posts? Everyone else did.

Maybe you should apologise to LM123 for turning his thread into a petty squabble?

EDIT: Sorry Def, you posted while I was typing. But I can't let that last rubbish go unanswered.

WH867 · **Reply #66 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:18:36 AM

All this stuff about which is the best is all pure opinion. Other than being basically the same size the tools are totally different so its just a matter of what suits who. I mean the plier heads are different, as are types of blades,drivers etc. Not a good comparison. IMO

Also which is the best quality depends on what your definition of quality is. Not the same for everybody.

Personally I like the Charge much better. That does not make it the best of the 2. Just my opinion.

It does seem that there are people here that feel the need almost daily to let us know that the Spirit or Swisstool is the best MT ever . While not true(IMO) they certailnly have the right to their opinion. I would just rather not have to here it all the time.

prime77 · **Reply #67 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:24:04 AM

Personally I think the Gerber Suspension kicks both their arses in a street fight.

(he says this while running from the room)

By the way, great write up LM123. I enjoyed reading it.

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #68 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:24:27 AM

Quote from: WH867 on April 27, 2009, 04:18:36 AM

All this stuff about which is the best is all pure opinion. Other than being basically the same size the tools are totally different so its just a matter of what suits who. I mean the plier heads are different, as are types of blades,drivers etc. Not a good comparison. IMO

Also which is the best quality depends on what your definition of quality is. Not the same for everybody.

Personally I like the Charge much better. That does not make it the best of the 2. Just my opinion.

It does seem that there are people here that feel the need almost daily to let us know that the Spirit or Swisstool is the best MT ever . While not true(IMO) they certailnly have the right to their opinion. I would just rather not have to here it all the time.

Hmm...

I cannot help but note that you've left out the true heir to the throne of "Best MT eVaR!"

*koff* stapler *koff*

Buzzbait · **Reply #69 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:27:58 AM

Quote from: WH867 on April 27, 2009, 04:18:36 AM

It does seem that there are people here that feel the need almost daily to let us know that the Spirit or Swisstool is the best MT ever . While not true(IMO) they certailnly have the right to their opinion. I would just rather not have to here it all the time.

The only reason that I ever posted in this thread was because I enjoyed the review, and felt bad that nobody was responding to Leatherman123's great write-up. It deserved some attention. I thought that a different take on the 2 tools could spice up the thread.

Poncho65 · **Reply #70 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:33:44 AM

Where are Micky D and Benner

they would have hi-jacked this thread long ago

WH867 · **Reply #71 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:37:30 AM

Quote from: Buzzbait on April 27, 2009, 04:27:58 AM

Quote from: WH867 on April 27, 2009, 04:18:36 AM
It does seem that there are people here that feel the need almost daily to let us know that the Spirit or Swisstool is the best MT ever . While not true(IMO) they certailnly have the right to their opinion. I would just rather not have to here it all the time.

The only reason that I ever posted in this thread was because I enjoyed the review, and felt bad that nobody was responding to Leatherman123's great write-up. It deserved some attention. I thought that a different take on the 2 tools could spice up the thread.

That statement was not aimed at your post.. I would have made the same statement long before you were a member here. It was not meant in any way as an attack on you personally.

It was a small shot aimed at the Swiss contigent here who feel the need almost daily to spout their opinion as fact. Which was referenced earlier by both Dave and roadie.

And for the record neither the charge or the spirit is the Best MT made. IMO

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #72 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:50:43 AM

Quote from: WH867 on April 27, 2009, 04:37:30 AM

Quote from: Buzzbait on April 27, 2009, 04:27:58 AM
Quote from: WH867 on April 27, 2009, 04:18:36 AM
It does seem that there are people here that feel the need almost daily to let us know that the Spirit or Swisstool is the best MT ever . While not true(IMO) they certailnly have the right to their opinion. I would just rather not have to here it all the time.

The only reason that I ever posted in this thread was because I enjoyed the review, and felt bad that nobody was responding to Leatherman123's great write-up. It deserved some attention. I thought that a different take on the 2 tools could spice up the thread.

That statement was not aimed at your post.. I would have made the same statement long before you were a member here. It was not meant in any way as an attack on you personally.

It was a small shot aimed at the Swiss contigent here who feel the need almost daily to spout their opinion as fact. Which was referenced earlier by both Dave and roadie.

And for the record neither the charge or the spirit is the Best MT made. IMO

Ah yes! A believer.

Buzzbait · **Reply #73 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:53:51 AM

Quote from: WH867 on April 27, 2009, 04:37:30 AM

That statement was not aimed at your post.. I would have made the same statement long before you were a member here. It was not meant in any way as an attack on you personally.

It was a small shot aimed at the Swiss contigent here who feel the need almost daily to spout their opinion as fact. Which was referenced earlier by both Dave and roadie.

And for the record neither the charge or the spirit is the Best MT made. IMO

No worries. My most used multitool, over the last 5 years, is actually a Gerber.

Buzzbait · **Reply #74 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:57:58 AM

Leatherman123 · **Reply #75 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:59:37 AM

Hey guys, this really got out of hand! I was just giving my opinion on two medium sized tools.. And yes, I did ask DaveK to provide his insight. Dennis made a great point when he said everyone has their own definition of quality. The titanium handle scales and S30v blade is my definition of quality!! But yeah, I didn't want all of these arguments to occur. I just want to say thanks to everyone who contributed: it was a pleasure writing it!

WH867 · **Reply #76 on:** April 27, 2009, 05:00:08 AM

Quote from: Buzzbait on April 27, 2009, 04:53:51 AM

Quote from: WH867 on April 27, 2009, 04:37:30 AM

That statement was not aimed at your post.. I would have made the same statement long before you were a member here. It was not meant in any way as an attack on you personally.

It was a small shot aimed at the Swiss contigent here who feel the need almost daily to spout their opinion as fact. Which was referenced earlier by both Dave and roadie.

And for the record neither the charge or the spirit is the Best MT made. IMO

No worries. My most used multitool, for the last 5 years, is actually a Gerber.

Well, since you brought it up. My most used MT(and still favorite) is actually a Gerber 600 Bluntnose

Buzzbait · **Reply #77 on:** April 27, 2009, 05:03:15 AM

Quote from: WH867 on April 27, 2009, 05:00:08 AM

Well, since you brought it up. My most used MT(and still favorite) is actually a Gerber 600 Bluntnose

Bwhahahaha!!!!!! I think I'll have to write up a review of my Gerber. The pinching of the pliers bothers me sometimes, but it is an otherwise excellent multitool.

rockyman500 · **Reply #78 on:** April 27, 2009, 05:05:35 AM

Quote from: Buzzbait on April 27, 2009, 04:53:51 AM

Quote from: WH867 on April 27, 2009, 04:37:30 AM

That statement was not aimed at your post.. I would have made the same statement long before you were a member here. It was not meant in any way as an attack on you personally.

It was a small shot aimed at the Swiss contigent here who feel the need almost daily to spout their opinion as fact. Which was referenced earlier by both Dave and roadie.

And for the record neither the charge or the spirit is the Best MT made. IMO

No worries. My most used multitool, over the last 5 years, is actually a Gerber.

(Image removed from quote.)

it reminds me of this:

Buzzbait · **Reply #79 on:** April 27, 2009, 02:55:50 PM

I believe that would be the........

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #80 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:08:15 PM

Does that mean I have the short tool bus?

Def

DaveK · **Reply #81 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:32:56 PM

I do like those coloured Gerbers, it's shame the old "build your own" idea never really got supported.

One thing we do agree on then Buzz Bait, the MP600 is a decent tool. The MP400 is OK, but the original multiplier, the 600, the Diesel etc are better for me and things I do. That's got me thinking actually....

Buzzbait · **Reply #82 on:** April 27, 2009, 05:58:10 PM

Quote from: DaveK on April 27, 2009, 04:32:56 PM

I do like those coloured Gerbers, it's shame the old "build your own" idea never really got supported.

One thing we do agree on then Buzz Bait, the MP600 is a decent tool. The MP400 is OK, but the original multiplier, the 600, the Diesel etc are better for me and things I do. That's got me thinking actually....

I also have a 400 series Gerber. Unfortunately, it didn't quite survive its first outing unscathed. I brought it on a fishing trip, and my fishing partner promptly got a hook deeply embedded in his hand. He used my Gerber 400 to cut the one hook from the treble, and force the rest of the hook up and through a new hole in his skin. Skin is some wickedly tough stuff. It was a long, bloody, and ghastly ordeal. All of that heavy plier action bent something in the Gerber. The plier head no longer ejects open nearly as smoothly as it did before that fishing trip. That was what prompted me to buy the larger and tougher "Gerber School Tool".

AxelF · **Reply #83 on:** May 17, 2009, 10:50:19 PM

It seems that many of you are overlooking the PRICE factor.

I am on a searching quest for a multitool,and for me (In my country the medium wage is 450 euros) the price is a very important fact.

So for me the Spirit Swisstool is the winner.

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #84 on:** May 18, 2009, 02:02:50 AM

Quote from: AxelF on May 17, 2009, 10:50:19 PM

It seems that many of you are overlooking the PRICE factor.

I am on a searching quest for a multitool,and for me (In my country the medium wage is 450 euros) the price is a very important fact.

So for me the Spirit Swisstool is the winner.
[/quote

Excellent point. I'm going to start a new thread based on the quality/cost ratio.

hodges · **Reply #85 on:** July 22, 2011, 06:56:51 PM

this thread is funny

My personal experience after 2 years with the charge has changed my opinion. I have found it amazingly useful but too heavy for edc, but recently while using it to cut snap-off screws (not that tough of a job) my charge tti BROKE!, something inside the plier head snapped and now the pliers wont open properly, another note no one has mentioned that its also extremely difficult to get the bottle opener open on the LM as the action is too tight and stiff, so I will be sending my LM in for repairs (gotta love the warrenty) but Im also buying a the spirit.