Victorinox to end alox special runs

[rickinFL]

+B on their Facebook page says that more limitted color alox in February, and a 84mm Sak with scissor.

The end of his note sounds like he's unsure he will be able to get any more after the February delivery.

most of the collaborations will be put down and all force is concentrated to the +B brand and its products that will be avaliable for more dealers to are more common to see in regular stores, a step that was long needed.

Time will tell...

The first order of business for 2014 should be a real website.  He should also list all stock and an update of stock on the site.  Having to email him to order is equal to pulling teeth. 

[Mr. Whippy]

The end of his note sounds like he's unsure he will be able to get any more after the February delivery.

Not a problem. I know of several suppliers in China who can provide the parts he needs at competitive prices. They can even do the little cross and shield thing, as long as it doesn't have to be 100% symmetrical. Or straight.

That's if he starts building his own SAKS.  His builds are Vic made.

Right.  Once that relationship ends, it's a different market because they aren't really "SAK's", they are custom/modded SAK's and he'll be competing with some of the magnificent mods we've been seeing on here. 

I dare say, a Syph modded (or ong modded) SAK is at a level above the standard product from Ibach.

NB: To the other modders, I don't personally own one of your knives, so I can't comment first hand.  However, if one of your mods ended up at my home, I would gladly give my opinion of it as well.   

 

[rickinFL]

The end of his note sounds like he's unsure he will be able to get any more after the February delivery.

Not a problem. I know of several suppliers in China who can provide the parts he needs at competitive prices. They can even do the little cross and shield thing, as long as it doesn't have to be 100% symmetrical. Or straight.

That's if he starts building his own SAKS.  His builds are Vic made.

Right.  Once that relationship ends, it's a different market because they aren't really "SAK's", they are custom/modded SAK's and he'll be competing with some of the magnificent mods we've been seeing on here. 

I dare say, a Syph modded (or ong modded) SAK is at a level above the standard product from Ibach.

NB: To the other modders, I don't personally own one of your knives, so I can't comment first hand.  However, if one of your mods ended up at my home, I would gladly give my opinion of it as well.   

 

A SYPH modded SAK is above any standard made on this planet.  It's as if the hand of God touched it.

back on topic...

I thought Swiss B did not produce limited run colors?  SwissB seems to produce a Vic approved and made pimp job.  I thought the limited runs were the 1/50 special colors that are engraved as such.

[MWDP]

The first order of business for 2014 should be a real website.  He should also list all stock and an update of stock on the site.  Having to email him to order is equal to pulling teeth.

Yep, his website looks completely atrocious...

[Mr. Whippy]

The end of his note sounds like he's unsure he will be able to get any more after the February delivery.

Not a problem. I know of several suppliers in China who can provide the parts he needs at competitive prices. They can even do the little cross and shield thing, as long as it doesn't have to be 100% symmetrical. Or straight.

That's if he starts building his own SAKS.  His builds are Vic made.

Right.  Once that relationship ends, it's a different market because they aren't really "SAK's", they are custom/modded SAK's and he'll be competing with some of the magnificent mods we've been seeing on here. 

I dare say, a Syph modded (or ong modded) SAK is at a level above the standard product from Ibach.

NB: To the other modders, I don't personally own one of your knives, so I can't comment first hand.  However, if one of your mods ended up at my home, I would gladly give my opinion of it as well.   

 

A SYPH modded SAK is above any standard made on this planet.  It's as if the hand of God touched it.

back on topic...

I thought Swiss B did not produce limited run colors?  SwissB seems to produce a Vic approved and made pimp job.  I thought the limited runs were the 1/50 special colors that are engraved as such.

Wow, that is a great point. 

Here's to hoping that Vic will produce more colored Alox and simply release it as a product, un-numbered and priced near the Standard Silver (or red) models. 

[Syph007]

The end of his note sounds like he's unsure he will be able to get any more after the February delivery.

Not a problem. I know of several suppliers in China who can provide the parts he needs at competitive prices. They can even do the little cross and shield thing, as long as it doesn't have to be 100% symmetrical. Or straight.

That's if he starts building his own SAKS.  His builds are Vic made.

Right.  Once that relationship ends, it's a different market because they aren't really "SAK's", they are custom/modded SAK's and he'll be competing with some of the magnificent mods we've been seeing on here. 

I dare say, a Syph modded (or ong modded) SAK is at a level above the standard product from Ibach.

NB: To the other modders, I don't personally own one of your knives, so I can't comment first hand.  However, if one of your mods ended up at my home, I would gladly give my opinion of it as well.   

 

A SYPH modded SAK is above any standard made on this planet.  It's as if the hand of God touched it.

back on topic...

I thought Swiss B did not produce limited run colors?  SwissB seems to produce a Vic approved and made pimp job.  I thought the limited runs were the 1/50 special colors that are engraved as such.

Wow, that is a great point. 

Here's to hoping that Vic will produce more colored Alox and simply release it as a product, un-numbered and priced near the Standard Silver (or red) models. 

That would make the most sense.  As I said before its not like different colored dye costs more.  If I get black or blue or red anodizing its all the same price.  So pretending orange costs more than black etc is just silly.  I suppose they save the 3 cents of dye on the standard silver though since thats non colored, but still.

[enki_ck]

The end of his note sounds like he's unsure he will be able to get any more after the February delivery.

Not a problem. I know of several suppliers in China who can provide the parts he needs at competitive prices. They can even do the little cross and shield thing, as long as it doesn't have to be 100% symmetrical. Or straight.

That's if he starts building his own SAKS.  His builds are Vic made.

Right.  Once that relationship ends, it's a different market because they aren't really "SAK's", they are custom/modded SAK's and he'll be competing with some of the magnificent mods we've been seeing on here. 

I dare say, a Syph modded (or ong modded) SAK is at a level above the standard product from Ibach.

NB: To the other modders, I don't personally own one of your knives, so I can't comment first hand.  However, if one of your mods ended up at my home, I would gladly give my opinion of it as well.   

 

A SYPH modded SAK is above any standard made on this planet.  It's as if the hand of God touched it.

back on topic...

I thought Swiss B did not produce limited run colors?  SwissB seems to produce a Vic approved and made pimp job.  I thought the limited runs were the 1/50 special colors that are engraved as such.

Wow, that is a great point. 

Here's to hoping that Vic will produce more colored Alox and simply release it as a product, un-numbered and priced near the Standard Silver (or red) models. 

That would make the most sense.  As I said before its not like different colored dye costs more.  If I get black or blue or red anodizing its all the same price.  So pretending orange costs more than black etc is just silly.  I suppose they save the 3 cents of dye on the standard silver though since thats non colored, but still.

Post #8 from the beginning of the thread

This connected with the info Ulli gave about them bringing back marlin spike models due to popular demand and the standard production line ALOX Mini Champs leads me to think they saw the potential of doing these full scale. So I'm thinking they decided not to do the limited 50 runs anymore and rather make them a production standard. This could in fact be good news. Even if it's not 20 limited runs per year anymore I'd be more happy with 5 regular production runs per year, lets say a few thousand colored farmers in standard colors (red, blue, green, orange, black) for 2014, a few thousand of the colored Pioneers for the following year, Solos, Ranchers, Harvesters, ...

Sounds much more reasonable to me. And I doubt they would get rid of the ALOX line. You have to remember that only the north American market has limited acces to that line. Europe and Asia still has Even the Solos, Bantams and other models that were disco'd in the US easily available and still in production. Still makes me go when I see Bantams and Solos sell for $40+ on US eBay.

Still hoping I'm right. We'll know soon enough.

[Mr. Whippy]

enki,

Genius is rarely appreciated in its time. 

[enki_ck]

enki,

Genius is rarely appreciated in its time. 

It's hard work being a genius sometimes.

[microbe]

So, I sent an email to Victorinox related to the end of (special run) days rumors. This is the reply:

Thank you very much for email dated 6th January 2014. We are pleased to answer your question.

It is true that the decision has been taken not to supply retailers and private collectors any longer with their own small special editions. These productions have grown very fast, causing questions and confusion on the market. Furthermore, it has interfered with our brand building activities and economic reason has to be taken into consideration as well. Thank you for your understanding.
I am glad to inform you that I have forwarded your statement to our product management team.

Kind regards,

Victorinox AG
Robert Elsener
Quality Manager / Dipl. Ing. FH

I also questioned if there will be special Alox runs in larger quantities, but unfortunately that was kept vague by mr Elsener. However: "no more small special editions" keeps room open for "large special editions". Bottom line: we have to wait and see.

[captain spaulding]

Thanks for doing the digging on that. 


It sounds as if they are going to bump up production on the special runs or get rid of them all together. Still no way to tell until a official statement is made. Im glad I got a couple of the limited runs of 50 of different models. Could be worth more in the future.  Not that I would sell them though.   

[Thunderpants]

The end of his note sounds like he's unsure he will be able to get any more after the February delivery.

Not a problem. I know of several suppliers in China who can provide the parts he needs at competitive prices. They can even do the little cross and shield thing, as long as it doesn't have to be 100% symmetrical. Or straight.

That's if he starts building his own SAKS.  His builds are Vic made.

Yeah, I was just kidding about the Chinese parts.  Most cat food tins are built of superior steel.

It is true that the decision has been taken not to supply retailers and private collectors any longer with their own small special editions. ...
Robert Elsener
Quality Manager / Dipl. Ing. FH

So I guess that means no more SwissBianco alox. Too bad I missed most of it!

[captain spaulding]

Anyone know if Tim will have anymore limited runs? Also does anyone know how many special runs will be released before they stop production of them or is it a immediate thing?

[nsa-x-file]

Anyone know if Tim will have anymore limited runs? Also does anyone know how many special runs will be released before they stop production of them or is it a immediate thing?

All the info I have is that there will be another run of alox from +B this year and after that I doubt we will see anymore runs in the near future.


 

[burnside]

So, I sent an email to Victorinox related to the end of (special run) days rumors. This is the reply:

Thank you very much for email dated 6th January 2014. We are pleased to answer your question.

It is true that the decision has been taken not to supply retailers and private collectors any longer with their own small special editions.

Perhaps this means that Vic will no longer be making the special colored alox runs such as the Denmark Cadets and South African Pioneers/Solos as well as the limited runs of 50. I still think there is hope that they will do large runs of colored Alox.

Thanks for doing the digging on that. 


It sounds as if they are going to bump up production on the special runs or get rid of them all together. Still no way to tell until a official statement is made. Im glad I got a couple of the limited runs of 50 of different models. Could be worth more in the future.  Not that I would sell them though.   

If Vic does end up doing large production runs of colored Alox, there is a chance that the value of the limited colored runs of 50 will not increase greatly in value (or not as much as they have on ebay as of late). This will just add to the continuing inconsistencies that are associated with the SAK collector's market.

In any case, I really hope they start producing colored Alox in large quantities. This will make it affordable and easier to acquire a diverse Alox collection for those just getting into it.

[captain spaulding]

I completely agree with the hopes that they will produce large numbers of colored alox. 

[Sazabi]

What I wonder, and forgive me if someone has postulated this yet, is that has the success of the limited runs caused Victorinox to purchase new machinery for making the alox scales?  Weren't they toward the end of their life expectancy?

[Syph007]

What I wonder, and forgive me if someone has postulated this yet, is that has the success of the limited runs caused Victorinox to purchase new machinery for making the alox scales?  Weren't they toward the end of their life expectancy?

Yes I forgot to say that the stamping die they use gets noticEably worse with each batch of alox I get.  The inner edges of the scales are very rough compared to older ones that were crisp.

Also what is interested is the extreme jaggedness of the edges would mean the silver specs that dont take the anodize well would be very visible on colored alox, but really not at all on regular not colored silver.

If I was to send in the stripped scales withouth sanding out the rougness they would look awful in colored anodize... so maybe right now they do extra processing to do colored anodize, or neat better dies for that.. dunno...

[papercut]

That is an interesting point about the machinery wearing out.  +B a few years back commented on the same thing somewhere.  It got so bad at Wenger that they made a run of SIs without the cross, they used the backscale on the front and back. 

With the addition of the onorous new and growing knife carry laws in the EU, the 93mm line could literally wear itself out.  With so many sizes, Vic might want to consolidate down to their core products (presumably the 91mm line).  Now, as seen with the Denmark 84mm models, Vic could take advantage of the carry laws with an expansion of the 84mm line perhaps. 

As an aspirational global brand, I could see the 50/50 models being far too limited for international appeal.  There are just not enough to go around, and Vic does not really enjoy most of the value.  But with limited editions in the thousands and using exotic materials, they do enjoy lower overhead, higher profit margins and larger revenue with only modestly higher material costs. 

Once the $1000 sak became reality, I think Ibach had to take notice. 

Also- interesting about the 84mm +B with scissors.  I wonder if they will be Wenger scissors?

[papercut]

Sorry more ramblin on, coherent thought broken by meetings and such-

First of all, the fact that Vics are high quality, high volume hard goods at a low price (relative to quality and value) puts them in a rather unique position.  Can you think of other such items?  Some Japanese items come to mind, but not much else. 

We also need to consider Vics opportunity cost with all these small exclusive lines.  When they started them, the bottom of the knife market has dropped out, and their major competitor had gone under only to be eaten by the Elseners.  This increased their overhead (doubled?) while not really increasing the Elsener family bottom line (at least for a time).

With the passing of the alox military contracts, the alox line lost its major high volume buyer, so Vic needed to depend on its channels and collectors to keep things going.  As we can see in the USA, Vics largest market, the full alox line is not self sustainable to Vics standards, but the collector market is quite hot for rare and exclusive items.  But their current rare models are infact quite rare- 50/50 which sell immediately and quickly gain value in the aftermarket.  Value Vic does not see the value, and they don't really make that much money.  In fact they incur quite a bit of overhead and opportunity costs, which would be fine in lean times, but the times are not as lean as in the aughts and the opportunity costs are much higher. 

So, being an aspirational brand and seeking higher profits, they internally have been focused on the basic utility models and high end models with macro-limited runs.  Since they know there is a market for colored alox, and if they want to stay in the alox market, they could have the standard 3 silver models plus an  seasonal/annual color (year stamped on the blade would be an added bonus).  This way they could keep their inventory from getting too crazy and their channels relatively streamlined.  We know Vic is very keep on being lean and while keeping quality high.

So, but having even a few people spend time on 50/50 alox runs that sell immediately means Vic has rather high opportunity costs.  Maybe they could charge USD 250 for the limited alox? That is actually more reflective of the actual market afterall.

:p

[dmanuel]

So +B is going to be out of business?

Here is what I received in an E-Mail from him.

...as you may did now we had some hard times and we will move on 99% and make ouer own sak and most part of that money will go into that, so we can keep up make the possible nicest sak around for long time for people like you that enjoy as i do and hopefully helps in every day work as well.

we have coldest weather here but mid week we do plan shipping, you get email as we do and as best i see near all is in stock, i will update on that as well and thanks again alot for your support!

best regards

+B

[MWDP]

So I guess this would be a good time to stock up on some Danish alox...

[papercut]

This makes the Carver the rarest alox model ever!  get them before they are gone!

[Marius]

The Carver is great!



However I think that there are other models that were possibly made in even fewer numbers. Electrician Duo and Electrician Mate come to mind.

[edit: typo]

[sticktodrum]

Beautiful photo. 

I wish now that I hadn't sold my extra green Carver... but at least I have one of them. 

[chris.customworks]

I’ve been told by reliable sources that Victorinox decided to continue producing Alox special runs and even to enlarge the program by a second product-line.
Roger Remund (Swiss Bianco), who already produced Victorinox Alox knives, will be responsible in the future for these knives. Further information will probably bee released soon on his website.

[captain spaulding]

 

[burnside]

I’ve been told by reliable sources that Victorinox decided to continue producing Alox special runs and even to enlarge the program by a second product-line.
Roger Remund (Swiss Bianco), who already produced Victorinox Alox knives, will be responsible in the future for these knives. Further information will probably bee released soon on his website.

Does this mean that Roger will be responsible for all future Alox runs, or will he just continue to do his  own Vic-approved special runs of Alox while Victorinox continues to release more limited alox runs on their own accord?

In other words... Does this just mean that in the future there will be more of the same limited-type alox releases as in the past?

[chris.customworks]

Does this mean that Roger will be responsible for all future Alox runs

In my understanding: Yes

In other words... Does this just mean that in the future there will be more of the same limited-type alox releases as in the past?

I don't know. He didn't answer my question hereof (yet). So any details like the number of future Alox runs (still 50 pieces per run?) remain obscur (so far).

Best regards

Chris

[papercut]

Sorry if I am dense, but does this mean the alox line in toto is being turned over to +B, standard models as well?  If so, it it prime time to start hoarding even more than normal!