Victorinox Tang Stamps

[kamakiri]

So I`ve tried. I see some differences, but I dont get a plan or a clear trend. Maybe you can help. I added fotos of random vintage can openers, all between 51 and 57, with US PAT PEND stamps and some with +PAT stamps. So can you match the stamps with the can openers? Lets try

Thanks for posting the pictures elsinox! I must apologize for not seeing your post earlier. I didn’t notice it as I was drafting my response about the ‘76 essr stamp.

 

First, grouping what I see is similar I would arrange them as:
4&6
1&5
2&3

I can’t see all the minor ground bevels in your pictures, and can’t see where all the ‘breaks’ and transitions are. And the finer details matter.

My guess is that there are two UPP stamps and that the chronological order is:
6
4
1
5
2
3

I don’t have one that is like #6. It is more of a guess that it precedes #1.

Thanks for taking the time to take the pics and I appreciate that you would make the test ‘blind’.   

[kamakiri]

Almost forgot...I’d also like to see more pictures of the second knife, which I suppose is a 235U.

I notice it has the thin ~0.5mm scissor liner.

[elsinox]

Whow, you`re great! Don`t really know how you make it...

I have to search the 235U, because I just took some random knives.

[jnoxyd]

 

[kamakiri]

Whow, you`re great! Don`t really know how you make it...

I have to search the 235U, because I just took some random knives.

  Thanks, and don’t worry about the 235!

I appreciate the opportunity to validate some of my methodology. 

...

jnoxyd- Thanks for bringing these topics to the surface again. Very interesting recent discussion and totally worth it. 

...

Would be nice if some others could chime in with  (new) pictures of those early unstamped openers. Showing all the machined bevels isn’t always easy, but I think it would be valuable for those interested. It does seem possible that those blanks may all precede the UPP stamp. And for now, I will continue to assume the UPP precedes all +PAT versions.

[Old Seaman]

Hi guys! I have a question to experts. I got a 84mm victorinox knife with a stamp on an aluminum liner. That is "R" letter.  I cant found any information about that. In my opinion probably it stamp after repair job.

[Myron]

Hi Old Seaman,

I've seen this same stamp on old 84 mm Golfers that I take apart for the scissors.  I always just assumed it stood for "right" and was there to assist in assembly at the factory.  Maybe someone else will know more definitively. 

Myron

[Old Seaman]

Thank you for information.

[jnoxyd]

I have a question: where these stamps were used in 1884-1891? Please tell me if anyone saw the knives made by Karl Elsener before well known Soldier from 1891?

[Huntsman]

You guys are amazing 

I am constantly blown away by the level of detail and knowledge in this thread   

And also extremely jealous of all your 'exposed rivets' SAKs

[jnoxyd]

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. "
No words "Victorinox" , "Elinox" or even "Swiss" in this stamp... What do you think?

[FolderBeholder]

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. "
No words "Victorinox" , "Elinox" or even "Swiss" in this stamp... What do you think? (Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Interesting....do you think it is the stamp "R1" in ulli's stamp chart on the first page of this thread? 

[jnoxyd]

Interesting....do you think it is the stamp "R1" in ulli's stamp chart on the first page of this thread? 

(Image removed from quote.)

Yes, I think it is this stamp but all these knives I've seen were from 1970s . Here's in last Ulli's chart version

[FolderBeholder]

Yes, I think it is this stamp but all these knives I've seen were from 1970s . Here's in last Ulli's chart version
(Image removed from quote.)

That is perplexing. 
Hope someone knows the answer to your inquiry.

[kamakiri]

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. "
No words "Victorinox" , "Elinox" or even "Swiss" in this stamp... What do you think? (Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Interesting. Looks like c. ‘73 to me from what I can see. Might be able to improve on that with pics form the top and bottom, tools closed.

Machining on the saw is a bit smurfed. But that sounds about right for parts in Elinox knives.

[MiniChamp]

Yes, I think it is this stamp but all these knives I've seen were from 1970s . Here's in last Ulli's chart version
(Image removed from quote.)

Note that the colored details in Ulli's table suggest that this stamp can be found on the back side of blades that have either a vs3 or an els stamp on the front side. The vs3 and els stamps occur on floral knives, so I'm guessing that Ulli saw this stamp on the back side of the blades of floral knives that he believed to be pre-1970. As far as officer knives are concerned, the very few of them that I have seen with this stamp are indeed from the 1970's (probably mid-1970's), so I believe that the time range in Ull's table is a bit wrong. Usage of this stamp may have started in the late 1950's, but didn't end before the mid-1970's.

[kamakiri]

c. ‘51 pre +PAT 136faU ??

Too expensive for me, but thinking it might be proof of sorts that Phillips and Scaler may have been introduced before the official ‘51 and ‘52 dates.

AS2/VSS2 (VaSS) blank/no stamp CO, older style shield, anodized liners and the ‘51+ 2.5mm pins showing.

[jnoxyd]

c. ‘51 pre +PAT 136faU ??

Too expensive for me, but thinking it might be proof of sorts that Phillips and Scaler may have been introduced before the official ‘51 and ‘52 dates.

AS2/VSS2 (VaSS) blank/no stamp CO, older style shield, anodized liners and the ‘51+ 2.5mm pins showing.

You are right, we discussed it in Vintage group. Let's go there

[kamakiri]

You are right, we discussed it in Vintage group. Let's go there (Image removed from quote.)

I know we covered a lot there...but I wanted to continue this where there was discussion on the blank CO and lack of its stamp.

Mainly, because it ‘proves’ or at least supports two theories. First, that the blank CO predates both UPP and +PAT stamps(as discussed here). And second, that the scaler may predate the Phillips...at least for 90/91mm.

[kamakiri]

And separately, I have found an example of UPP that is machined like early +PAT. So there are knives that can be pegged to ‘53 production.

[Reinier]

Is this a new one? Variation of vsm1 (475/10 instead of 473/10). What do the numbers mean anyways?

It's a floral knife.

[LeaF]

Is this a new one? Variation of vsm1 (475/10 instead of 473/10). What do the numbers mean anyways?

It's a floral knife.

I have a Gardener model with the same stamp. It has unusual scales made from some kind of celluloid (I suppose)
https://leaf-vics.com/2014/11/304-gardener.html

[Reinier]

Nice SAK Alex.

[kamakiri]

Is this a new one? Variation of vsm1 (475/10 instead of 473/10). What do the numbers mean anyways?

It's a floral knife.

AFAIK, the numbers are the blade profile name or codes. Pretty sure the 473/10 is one of the grafting profiles, maybe the one with the bark lifter in the back. Lots of them in the 47X range.

[Reinier]

Thanks!

[jnoxyd]

[Sterg]

I’ve been looking for this stamp and can’t find any info. I’m conserved about the lowercase letters. Was there a version with lowercase?

[Max Stone]

It's an early "GEBR.DÜBENDORFER" promotion knife, but I cannot comment on the tang stamp.The only image I can find of one with rivets is very small, and from a closed Bay auction, which seems to be the same reference as your image post.

(edit: I see you won this knife, congrats  )

[ulli]

I’ve been looking for this stamp and can’t find any info. I’m conserved about the lowercase letters. Was there a version with lowercase?

You mean the "Elsener Zug"? That was just a dealer, so not an official tang stamp of the company Elsener/Victorinox. It was pretty common to put the name of the dealer on the tang. Most times, there was another stamp on the backside that linked to victorinox, like an Inoxyd Crossbow stamp.

As far as I know, Elsener from the city of Zug was not a close relative to the Karl Elsener family, not like Elsener from Rapperswil who was Karls cousin.

[Sterg]

Thanks for the replies. Here’s the other side stamp. This one I can find on the charts.
Doing a search for GEBR.DÜBENDORFER, I find images of early trucks with the name on the side. GEBR is German for brother so it’s like trucking companies names around here. What pattern is the knife? Waiter?