Surge pliers vs. Wave?

Cogito · **on:** March 10, 2014, 12:40:54 AM

For those who normally use the Surge what sort of things do you use the pliers for that a Wave plier head can't accomplish?

ducttapetech · **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2014, 12:56:22 AM

A lot of the time, the wave will work. But the Surge will make it easier. Like cutting heavy wire like barbed wire. Some cases the wave wont work just because it does not have the leverage that the Surge does.

Cogito · **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2014, 01:07:38 AM

Can you give me an example of some of those things where leverage is insufficient?

ducttapetech · **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2014, 01:33:06 AM

I had a bolt on a gate I tried to loosen and the wave pliers head just keep slipping because I couldn't get enough leverage on the handles themselves. I was just able to do it with the Surge because of the longer handles. I was able to get more grip.
But it is not just the size of the pliers that make the surge a nice tool. Longer blades, big scissors, and a blade exchanger.

Aloha · **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2014, 01:42:52 AM

Quote from: ducttapetech on March 10, 2014, 01:33:06 AM

I had a bolt on a gate I tried to loosen and the wave pliers head just keep slipping because I couldn't get enough leverage on the handles themselves. I was just able to do it with the Surge because of the longer handles. I was able to get more grip.
But it is not just the size of the pliers that make the surge a nice tool. Longer blades, big scissors, and a blade exchanger.

the sum total of the parts makes it better for me as a work tool. This by no means makes the Wave inferior as the Wave is quite the tool. I'd image the ST300 and Rebar and New Surge all are better given they have the replaceable wire cutters.

ducttapetech · **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2014, 01:50:25 AM

You are right, the Wave is by no means inferior.

Romanoat · **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2014, 02:38:18 AM

Quote from: ducttapetech on March 10, 2014, 01:50:25 AM

You are right, the Wave is by no means inferior.

Inferior, not by any means. Lighter duty, absolutely.

Cogito · **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2014, 06:16:27 PM

So mainly it's the handle length, like hypothetically if you swapped a rebar head into a new surge then you wouldn't really be missing anything by having the smaller plier heads.

Or if you just found a way to get longer handles on a regular wave.

BigMatt · **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2014, 06:37:20 PM

Exactly what guys say. They can do the same thing, but I can do the chain link fence/barbed wire/farm fencing wire one handed with surge, where I had to really lean with both hands on my Charge.

Charge/wave for EDC and tough cutting/grabbing only in emergency. Surge for work where you do those things often.

Crow · **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2014, 06:56:00 PM

By putting medium duty pliers in a heavy duty tool breaks your medium duty pliers more easily. Only cause of increased leverage. Old saying goes "Use right tool for the right job". Tools can only take certain amount of power, then they break.

Cogito · **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2014, 07:10:03 PM

Quote from: Crow on March 10, 2014, 06:56:00 PM

By putting medium duty pliers in a heavy duty tool breaks your medium duty pliers more easily. Only cause of increased leverage. Old saying goes "Use right tool for the right job". Tools can only take certain amount of power, then they break.

So what would be an example that would cause the weaker pliers to break?

ducttapetech · **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2014, 08:08:24 PM

Heavy wire, bending too think of metal and so on. To much leverage on the plierhead because of longer handle. Much like using a cheater on a ratchet. To much power will bust the wrench or socket.

that's us mobile

Crow · **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2014, 07:50:54 PM

It is about amount of material put in to the plier head. They are two different sized heads. Both are designed to handle certain amount of strength. Same design comes to handles.

Let us take Rebar. And rusted down bolt. You try to twist it open without luck. Cause you have not enough strength in your hands to hold it. But you did not do a scratch to the tool itself. Now you go and take two pipes that fit handles, length about one meter. Now you get good grip and great amount of leverage. Now you start to twitch screw, start to press pipes tighter. Aand snap. Was not twist motion, but leverage that you put in it.
Now, your friend has new Surge with that bigger plier. You take it and start to twitch. Good grip and leverage. Little puffing, and bolt loosens.
You did not overdo surge, as you did with rebar.

That is right tool for right job.

Jothra · **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2014, 12:03:39 AM

In a situation like that, the right tool for the job is a wrench.

But I get your point.

Crow · **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2014, 07:51:54 AM

Quote from: Jothra on March 12, 2014, 12:03:39 AM

In a situation like that, the right tool for the job is a wrench.

But I get your point.

You are right Jothra. I would not use pliers for this kind of job.

Jothra · **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2014, 03:49:51 PM

Quote from: Crow on March 12, 2014, 07:51:54 AM

Quote from: Jothra on March 12, 2014, 12:03:39 AM
In a situation like that, the right tool for the job is a wrench.

But I get your point.

You are right Jothra. I would not use pliers for this kind of job.

Mind you, I guess you never know when you'll end up in a situation in which your only choice is to pick the least wrong right tool for the wrong right job. Your original post makes sense when I think it through properly. Sorry about my contradictory post. Who hasn't been in a situation with nothing but a variety of multitools to choose from?

I'm not being facetious. It's happened to all of us.

Anyway, I agree that the longer Surge handles are what make it worthwhile, though a beefier set of plier jaws never hurt.

Higgins617 · **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2014, 04:01:06 PM

[/quote]
Mind you, I guess you never know when you'll end up in a situation in which your only choice is to pick the least wrong right tool for the wrong right job.
[/quote]
Hahahahahaha

JAfromMn · **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2014, 04:55:05 PM

Stupid question

does the surge use the st300 pliers head.

Kampfer · **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2014, 04:58:00 PM

It does.

JAfromMn · **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2014, 05:00:00 PM

Quote from: Kampfer on March 12, 2014, 04:58:00 PM

It does.

Thanks

I thought so

one more reason to get one

Crow · **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2014, 05:18:14 PM

This was just an example, that Cogito asked to have. Scenario, that only things you have in hand at the moment. For this scenario, new Surge was the right tool for the job.
As earlier mentioned, this is the reason i would not put mid duty tools to heavy duty tools. Manufacturers have calculated and designed tools to handle only certain amount of force. Adding extra leverage to any tool not designed to handle it will break more easily.

Jothra · **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2014, 05:38:36 PM

Quote from: Crow on March 12, 2014, 05:18:14 PM

This was just an example, that Cogito asked to have. Scenario, that only things you have in hand at the moment. For this scenario, new Surge was the right tool for the job.
As earlier mentioned, this is the reason i would not put mid duty tools to heavy duty tools. Manufacturers have calculated and designed tools to handle only certain amount of force. Adding extra leverage to any tool not designed to handle it will break more easily.

True fact! The broken multitool thread is full of evifence of that kind of thing.

I still think it's strange that the handle of my Wave broke before the pliers. I would have expected the opposite.

Incidentally, I found out last year that the school's Surge was really good for cutting small-diameter dowel.

Crow · **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2014, 05:48:59 PM

As saying goes "Chain is as durable as its weakest link is". Pliers should break before handles, as should other tools. Cause they are designed to work as a fuse, preventing other bossible damages. I rather break tool, than a handle. When handle breaks, there is danger of seriously damage yourself.

Kampfer · **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2014, 05:57:44 PM

Size does matter, bigger = stronger.
Weight does matter, bigger = heavier.

Crow · **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2014, 05:59:35 PM

Have anyone ever thought what would happen if something like Fuse or Rebar handle broke in middle suddenly when using pliers? All sharp blades, saw etc point straight to your palm. And what would those sharp edges of that handle do to your hand?

Who ever thought of this when using your multi? One more reason not to overdo your multis...