Any Non-Jeepers Out There (4x4s)? :P

[Sea Monster]

Ah....replying to 2 year old posts....


Regional naming habits make it a bit hard to keep track of things...

The 4Runner was usually a grey import into Australia - a popular choice as it used the beloved Hilux Chassis with a wagon body (lately replaced with the Fortuna)

Locally the Prado is not considered a "true" landcruiser, due to being offered in the smaller size and engine capacity, but a hugely popular option with the wealthier families who want reasonable off road and towing ability, but marginally easier parking in shopping centres (which, given that they probably do a lot more parking in shopping centres than 4WDing is probably fair)

the bigger Landies (70 Series, and the 60-80-100-200 series) are considered the kings of the road, and a kitted out 70 is the "Default" dream of any true off roader - although as often as not as much ability can be had for a quarter of the price.

Until recently, American trucks were not available here, so Landcruisers or Nissan Patrols were what you got if you meant business (my understanding is that Patrols are not broadly distributed in the USA?)

If you want to kill some time, go to any Australian 4x4 forum and say "GQs are better than 80 Series" or "80 Series is better than GQ" and watch the ensuing pointless arguments over two cars that are both (or were) top notch.

They still fetch an absolute premium second hand due mostly to their reputation, but occasionally due to their actual quality. Most are flogged out by now....


Anyway, what I really wanted to discuss was the Jimny/Sierra!

They were pulled from the local market a few years ago due to no longer meeting our safety requirements for new vehicles (given that Suzuki had not updated the design much in decades) until the 2019 one struck!

but...here's the thing, (and this is a counterpoint to something someone wrote about bigger tyres and lift kits ets) - the Sierra/Jimny's main selling point was that is was simple mechanically, and had smurf all mass, and was a cheap entry -  You didn't NEED to upgrade anything, because it would just hop bounce and skip over any problems - as soon as you start "kitting" them out, they lose their charm and use, heavier suspension, dual batteries, roof storage, big wheels/tyres - all of a sudden you've got a tiny, heavy, underpowered shopping trolley.


I have not had the opportunity to test drive the new model yet, but I fear for all that it looks like a baby jeep or G wagon, it has stepped aside from its roots, or rather, has tried to keep it's roots, but also tried (be have been required) to add a variety of modern upgrades, so you've got a car that is sort of okay at a few things, rather than excellent at one or two things.

Thanks to demand, the current price to get a 2019 Jimny is silly for what it is supposed to be (Cheap adolescent fun), you can get any number of far more comfortable and featured, and likely only marginally less capable off road vehicles for the same dollars.

[Gareth]

I'd have to check but I've been told the new Jimny was pulled from the UK market due to not meeting emission standards.  There is definitely at lest a couple on the roads near me though. 

[dks]

First purpose built from the start electric Truck by a major manufacturer

[Grant Lamontagne]

I would absolutely be in for one if it wasn't six figures.   

Def

[dks]

It is the first electric vehicle that interested me. Six figures is nothing for the MTO CEO.

[Grant Lamontagne]

You have vastly overestimated the value of the MTO CEO, unless there is another one that I don't know about!

I am also very interested in the electric Ford F150 that is coming next year, but again, $100,000+ is a bit of a turnoff.  Hell, until the pandemic hit and property values skyrocketed, you could buy a house here for $100k.

Starting the day with a fully charged vehicle really appeals to me, especially with the price of fuel at the moment.

Def

[dks]

I like the fact that it is purely designed to be electric- no petrol powered vehicle converted to be electric, with all the compromises of building a body/frame that can take both electric motors and petrol engines.

 I am sure the prices will come down when they reach the market, and you also have government subsidies, company discounts and so on

[ezdog]

I like the fact that it is purely designed to be electric- no petrol powered vehicle converted to be electric, with all the compromises of building a body/frame that can take both electric motors and petrol engines.

 I am sure the prices will come down when they reach the market, and you also have government subsidies, company discounts and so on

So exactly how will we deal with running out of juice in the middle of the work day and having to wait around to recharge?

You have to admit that the Toyota Hybrid design is really pretty exceptional and seems to me to not suffer any real utility for having both types of motor on board and the continuous use thing is a pretty big hit against pure electric at least for my daily use.
The Prius has also tuned out to be one of the most reliable of all Toyotas for a while now too.

So I read and hear about the EV all the time but have never seen a realistic solution to this?

[dks]

You get 350 miles of claimed range, so it will all depend on how much you travel daily.

There is fast charging and now there are companies that will enable you to change your flat batteries with full ones, in I think 10 minutes at special stations.

Hybrids are good in the city but tests show them using up more fuel when they run out of battery power or used in motorways or for fast driving.

I am quite happy with normal petrol/diesel engines, but will consider full electric in the future, if they build a good/cheap one.


I don't have to admit to anything, I believe

[Grant Lamontagne]

Not to derail this, but, in the case of the Prius, I feel like Toyota designers were challenged to make the most godawful, ugliest car they could come up with, and still have it look more or less car-like.

Then when it came time to redesign it, they got the design team really, really drunk and said "now, how do we make it even more hideous?"

I also spotted a first generation Honda Insight a few days ago, still on the road and still running.  It was the first one I have seen in a while.  The design looks dated, but it still looks nice.  How it lost out to the Prius is beyond me.

Anyways, yeah, there will be issues with electrics, especially in an area like mine where the electrical grid is powered somewhat by coal, negating any environmental benefits.  And yes, I realize battery production has its own significant challenges as well, but in the end, I really hate being a slave to oil prices.  It bothers me that, at the whim of someone on the other side of the planet, it costs me more to go to work.  I hate having to stay at home because fuel costs are up and I can't do the things I need or want to do because it just costs too bloody much.

And yes, I see all of you in Europe rolling your eyes at me for complaining about fuel prices, when yours are twice what ours are!

Def

[dks]

..and wages are lower too  

Once most cars are electric the governments will need to get taxes from somewhere, so they will tax electricity accordingly. Our electricity prices fluctuate depending on oil prices anyway.

[ezdog]

So nothing at all regarding the practical implications of the dead battery while you still need to drive.

Right now if I need to wait for something on my car to keep me going that is considered a breakdown and I have to get it fixed as soon as possible to get back to work.

So from just a more practical point of view having a Hybrid drivetrain can simply keep me going but no matter how fast a charge on an EV I will need to stop somewhere to wait for it to take place.

I am not arguing the need just trying to grasp the way this can work?

You get 350 miles of claimed range, so it will all depend on how much you travel daily.

There is fast charging and now there are companies that will enable you to change your flat batteries with full ones, in I think 10 minutes at special stations.

Hybrids are good in the city but tests show them using up more fuel when they run out of battery power or used in motorways or for fast driving.

I am quite happy with normal petrol/diesel engines, but will consider full electric in the future, if they build a good/cheap one.


I don't have to admit to anything, I believe

[Gareth]

I think the days of every single vehicle being fully electric are still quite a way off.  As ezdog says; some trips are simply longer than any single battery can be expected to manage.  Until every single parking bay at every single service station is a charging point you'll absolutely need some other source of power. 

Another point I've wondered about and never had a good answer too; what if you aren't fortunate enough to have a driveway or garage?  Is every single home going to be offered somewhere they can be guaranteed to be able to plug in every night?  What if you are a two car household? 

I am absolutely fine with the idea of full EV vehicles for where they are a practical option but until the infrastructure is there I don't think they can be for everyone.

[dks]

One of the main issues of Hybrids and to a lesser extend electric vehicles is the way their drivers are portrayed.  Southpark and Family guy have done some shows on that.

Some of this is true, as you discover if you drive behind a hybrid diver, going slowly, looking at the green recharge screen instead of the road... Even worse if you are in the car with them, when they try to make you look at the screens too, convinced that the energy that recharges their battery as they stop early is free, ignoring the fact that if they were actually going a bit faster and managed to go through the green light they would not have had to stop and collect "free" energy.

We need a hugely green energy source and a production of electric cars that is also hugely green, and cheaper in the long run.

Buy what you want.

[pfrsantos]

Yeah, electric cars...

[ezdog]

OMG!

As long as you don't profile EV drivers I think we might survive this?

This was a stereotype maybe in the early years and as you suggest fostered on some comedy shows but is hardly the way it is any more that I can tell.

This is pretty much like suggesting that everyone who drives a big truck is compensating for manly insecurities.

Have you ever driven a Prius?
They are pretty insanely Powerful and really Zippy despite the crazy weight load of the batteries.

I sure drove the heck out of mine!

One of the main issues of Hybrids and to a lesser extend electric vehicles is the way their drivers are portrayed.  Southpark and Family guy have done some shows on that.

Some of this is true, as you discover if you drive behind a hybrid diver, going slowly, looking at the green recharge screen instead of the road... Even worse if you are in the car with them, when they try to make you look at the screens too, convinced that the energy that recharges their battery as they stop early is free, ignoring the fact that if they were actually going a bit faster and managed to go through the green light they would not have had to stop and collect "free" energy.

We need a hugely green energy source and a production of electric cars that is also hugely green, and cheaper in the long run.

Buy what you want.

[dks]

Survive what?
The new Hummer is a new 4WD car posted in a thread of 4WD cars for people that are interested in that thing. Some are, some are not.

[old Lefty]

I'm having huge issues with the current push of hybrid/electric vehicles as green and relevant choices for all.
Having said that, there are hybrids and electric cars that serve a purpose, and very well at that. Some are even cool in my book (Volt, 500e, new Captur, Mercedes's line of e and hybrids).

There also was a 1st gen Prius on our front yard for some time awhile ago. It was a Toyota, so it was 100% reliable. Frugal? Not really.
In commuting it averaged at 4,8 litres/100 km. Don't get me wrong, a decent figure, but frugal? Not really, when a e-class sedan gets the same result and burns diesel. Renault Kadjar is averaging 4,5 again in diesel. Ok, so while considerably roomier and more comfortable than Prius those both are oil burners.
So Prius would fair better when compared to petrol, right? Well, in my/our usage not really. Fiat Punto and 127 both offer similar interior space and comfort levels (ok, granted the 127 is a bit slower and noisier) and average at 5,1 and 4,9. So all and all I would not call Prius frugal, at least in our usage (and small Fiats are pretty much the most fun per buck you can get).
Only time where Prius totally scores on consumption for me was pure, 100% city driving. Dunno, if new gen. plug in Toyotas are  generally better.

But I think I'm digressing, so Hummer. I kinda like it. Would I really buy one? If it is 100k in US it'll be 150 k down here. For that money I'd get a used Silverado or Ram and pocket half of the money for fuel I'm afraid

[old Lefty]

double

[ezdog]

Survive your need to stereotype Hybrid and EV drivers to try to make a point.

People choose these for any number of reasons and while I am with you about the crazies driving among us as you describe I would hardly assign that driving behavior to all who drive the Hybrid or EV cars.

Survive what?
The new Hummer is a new 4WD car posted in a thread of 4WD cars for people that are interested in that thing. Some are, some are not.

[dks]

Survive your need to stereotype Hybrid and EV drivers to try to make a point.

People choose these for any number of reasons and while I am with you about the crazies driving among us as you describe I would hardly assign that driving behavior to all who drive the Hybrid or EV cars.

I think any point was made pretty clearly in the past few posts.......

[ezdog]

I think any point was made pretty clearly in the past few posts.......

Which us exactly my point


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Grant Lamontagne]

Let's take a moment and realize that we don't need to draw a line between members over electric versus internal combustion vehicles.  People are free to drive what they want, and like any other tool, their usefulness varies on what your needs are.

Personally, I want to stop paying exorbitant prices for gasoline, and since brewing my own grain alcohol to run my car on is illegal, I'm willing to explore electricity.

As for having a dead battery, well, you can also have an empty fuel tank.  Yes, a gas can is a lot easier than having someone come out with an industrial inverter to plug into for half an hour... but then ten years ago electric cars were lucky to get 100kms on a charge.  Now, a decade later, we are getting 5 times that.  Is anyone getting 5x the fuel economy they did ten years ago?  I certainly am not....

Electric vehicles are here to stay, but they aren't for everyone.  As technology improves (and it will, remember the cell phone you had ten years ago?) electric cars will take more and more of a share in the market, and internal combustion manufacturers will either adapt or join Blockbuster  in oblivion.

It's not good, it's not bad, it just exists.  If youbwant one, get one, if you don't, don't.  No one is forcing anyone to stray from the internal combustion engine against their will.

Def

[Syncop8r]

I saw something about a hydrogen 4WD the other day but I can't remember what the point was. 
Perhaps I didn't even see it and I'm just imagining things again. 

[Gareth]

No, you're not wrong.  Hydrogen fuel cell is definitely a thing.  Essentially converts hydrogen into electricity and water.  Zero emissions from the car and quick to refuel (vs charging).  Downside is actually producing the hydrogen.  Hard to do enough and not a very clean process ATM.

[Syncop8r]

Are we talking Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine Vehicles or Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles?

I believe HICEVs have no CO2 emissions but they are not zero-emission because any internal combustion engine (I think?) will produce nitrous oxides, a greenhouse gas:

H2 + O2 + N2 → H2O + NOx

I'm not sure how much though and I know very little about chemistry. I'll add it to my 'things to Google DuckDuckGo list'.

[dks]

https://www.hyundai.com/eu/models/nexo.html

Hydrogen SUV - as mentioned previously, making the Hydrogen currently uses a lot of energy

[ezdog]

All I am saying is that painting Hybrid users with a broad Stereotype does no one any good.

There.

Now I am done saying it.

[dks]

Still making them, new, at least until  next year, when they become Dacias, according to the report

[old Lefty]

Still making them, new, at least until  next year, when they become Dacias, according to the report

The last bacth they got into local market was in 2010 or thereabouts. We seriously considered buying one. Almost did, but decided on a test drive 1st, luckily. Whilst I've happily spend more than 15 years on Series Land Rovers the ergonomics of the Niva were something else. Not in a good way.
Also the center lock I pushed on just to test refused to disengage..
Needless to say no Niva, but a 2nd hand Freebie instead..

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