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Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution 11539

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,546 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2016, 03:37:47 PM »
Well here it is .... tadah .... The latest and greatest Version 5.

Quite a few significant changes from V4 - Can't remember them all but here are some I can  :D
  • Voetsaks suggestions incorporated - (see above) - Thanks mate
  • File changes described more clearly
  • Magnifying Glass changes described more clearly
  • Saw changes described in more detail (eg tooth count!)
  • Later dates corrected/added
  • Some formatting & cosmetic changes - Hope the thicker lines are OK for you - They look much better in the xcel!
As always chaps - All suggestions/corrections gratefully received.
There are still quite a few '?' left on the sheet.

Hope this is useful and thanks for all the comments and feedback so far

great work man!  I have been so busy with school, that I have not had any time for my own spreadsheet.  thank you for sharing

If I can help, let me know 
No Life Club Posts: 1,041
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2016, 05:28:35 PM »
The info in this thread needs to be bumped...too good to get lost over time!   :tu:

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they go."    -Will Rogers
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2017, 02:59:23 AM »
Hey Guys

Here is something I was messing around with this eveing.
It a little pictorial to help you date your SAKS based on tool evolution.

It's a bit rough and ready (actually it's probably not even ready  :( )
And does assume that you know about the diffrent tool evolution changes (eg I've not explained differences in detail and used abbreviations etc - BBut I can tell you OSS means Old Soldier Style.
But you may find it useful.

The dates came from the SAMS website and that sheet from Urwys Wyss of Victorinox
http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#scissors
Probably best if you use my table alongside this website to see the piccies
I like my table as you can see what changes happened at teh same time and it gives one overall picture.

I'd like to tidy it up a lot so any suggestions greatfully received

Cheers

Here are the revisions I offer for Vic cellidors:

1968 Last year for Sharpened Bottle opener/scraper
1971 No "PAT" on Can Opener
1973 - 5 to 4 turn corkscrew
Back layer phillips:
1952 - 1968 square, file, no can-key
1968 -1980 square, no file, can-key
1980 - 1992 round, can key
1992 - present round no can key
Divot Repair tool - 1992- 04?
Emblem Inlay on front scales - 80 Stainless Steel, before they were nickel/silver

 :salute:
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 03:02:00 AM by El Corkscrew »

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 3,613
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2017, 10:14:22 AM »
Here are the revisions I offer for Vic cellidors:

Thanks El C - This is great to get some feedback on the dating table  :tu:
I have inserted some comments after you suggestions - Can anyone else comment, confirm, or dispute - Mainly on the first two items !!
Please let us know ..........


1968 Last year for Sharpened Bottle opener/scraper
Hmm - That is a dramatic change - Current version and SAAMS says 1980 - Although with a ? - So they were not sure - Some evidence please !

1971 No "PAT" on Can Opener
Also is a dramatic change - Current version and SAAMS also says 1980? - Ditto !

1973 - 5 to 4 turn corkscrew
This is an interesting one and we mentioned it in ano thread  - Makes much more sense to me as I have some SAKs which have alu tipped tweezers but four turns CS - Which is not possible according to SAAMS - I am happy to update that one 
 :tu:

Back layer phillips:
Yes we also discussed this in ano thread - We have never seen a no file/no can key square SD - and SAAMS is a bit devoid of dates for the back SD - and we are all agreed on the 1992 date - So I am happy to update based on your dates 
:tu:
1952 - 1968 square, file, no can-key
1968 -1980 square, no file, can-key
1980 - 1992 round, can key
1992 - present round no can key

Divot Repair tool - 1992- 04?
Sure why not? I think I guessed the current end date in my table ! :o

Emblem Inlay on front scales - 80 Stainless Steel, before they were nickel/silver
Yep this is the date that is in the table
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 10:16:53 AM by Huntsman »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2017, 05:31:39 PM »
Here are the revisions I offer for Vic cellidors:

Thanks El C - This is great to get some feedback on the dating table  :tu:
I have inserted some comments after you suggestions - Can anyone else comment, confirm, or dispute - Mainly on the first two items !!
Please let us know ..........


1968 Last year for Sharpened Bottle opener/scraper
Hmm - That is a dramatic change - Current version and SAAMS says 1980 - Although with a ? - So they were not sure - Some evidence please !

1971 No "PAT" on Can Opener
Also is a dramatic change - Current version and SAAMS also says 1980? - Ditto !

1973 - 5 to 4 turn corkscrew
This is an interesting one and we mentioned it in ano thread  - Makes much more sense to me as I have some SAKs which have alu tipped tweezers but four turns CS - Which is not possible according to SAAMS - I am happy to update that one 
 :tu:

Back layer phillips:
Yes we also discussed this in ano thread - We have never seen a no file/no can key square SD - and SAAMS is a bit devoid of dates for the back SD - and we are all agreed on the 1992 date - So I am happy to update based on your dates 
:tu:
1952 - 1968 square, file, no can-key
1968 -1980 square, no file, can-key
1980 - 1992 round, can key
1992 - present round no can key

Divot Repair tool - 1992- 04?
Sure why not? I think I guessed the current end date in my table ! :o

Emblem Inlay on front scales - 80 Stainless Steel, before they were nickel/silver
Yep this is the date that is in the table

Won't have time to get to it today, but I'll post my corroborating evidence soon.  If you pay close attention in my collection videos, you will see. :)

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2017, 05:36:41 PM »

Divot Repair tool - 1992- 04?
Sure why not? I think I guessed the current end date in my table ! :o

Emblem Inlay on front scales - 80 Stainless Steel, before they were nickel/silver
Yep this is the date that is in the table



Sorry, couldn't see the other chart, even when I clicked the link. 

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 3,613
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2017, 12:47:29 AM »
Won't have time to get to it today, but I'll post my corroborating evidence soon.  If you pay close attention in my collection videos, you will see. :)

That would be great - If it's not too much trouble - Otherwise I can check the vids
- I did see them but did not have time to view at the time
Thanks El C

Sorry, couldn't see the other chart, even when I clicked the link. 

Ah Photobucket problem I think! I often cannot see Syph's piccies - which is highly infuriating!

The later versions are far superior to the earlier ones in terms of content and usability
There are attachments with jpegs and pdfs if you cannot get the PB link to work.

Once we have this sorted out I will update and publish - Probably for the final time, as it has not changed much in a long time
Although my current version has quite a few changes from the last one in this thread.  :tu:  :o
And I think it will be a really good artefact.

Thanks again for your input 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 02:18:26 AM by Huntsman »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2017, 06:39:50 AM »
First I'll address the "+PAT" on the can opener, the wire scraper on the bottle opener.

Here we have a Climber and a Standard, both w/ 5-turn corkscrew, Key Ring, and clip point small blade. Neither have +PAT, indicating this was removed sometime before '73 - my guess is '71



For the wire scraper I may have been mistaken about '68, perhaps '71 on this as well. 

The Standard has wire scraper on the bottle opener  while the Climber does not.  This indicates that they dropped the scraper sometime before '73 for sure... maybe '71 but it's a total guess.

1 Climber
2 Climber
3 Standard
4Standard
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 07:22:13 AM by El Corkscrew »

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2017, 06:52:42 AM »
Here are some more examples of 4-turn corkscrew being   '73 change

You'll also see find no wire scrapers on these bottle openers

1 Standard w/ box '70s
2 Champion '70s
3 Camper w/ box 70s
4 Championw/ box '70s
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 06:54:25 AM by El Corkscrew »

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,068 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2017, 12:16:13 PM »
So would that mean that the climber small I tore apart, with 5 turn corkscrew, +pat on can opener, scraper on the bottle opener was likely made in the late 60's? :think:
Very interesting and cool.  :tu:

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2017, 03:29:36 PM »
So would that mean that the climber small I tore apart, with 5 turn corkscrew, +pat on can opener, scraper on the bottle opener was likely made in the late 60's? :think:
Very interesting and cool.  :tu:

I'd say so... I think the change to a 4 turn turn from 5 turn corkscrew on 84 MM might even be earlier.the vintage Tinker smalls and Tourists I have with clip point blade all 4 turn corkscrews...

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2017, 07:39:05 PM »
Found some supporting evidence for '71 for the +PAT

Here's a '71 Soldier w/ +PAT and a "73 Without

(I decided to get the '71... Now I have Vic's from 71,81,91,01 :ahhh)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 07:41:33 PM by El Corkscrew »

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,068 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2017, 12:21:43 AM »
So would that mean that the climber small I tore apart, with 5 turn corkscrew, +pat on can opener, scraper on the bottle opener was likely made in the late 60's? :think:
Very interesting and cool.  :tu:

I'd say so... I think the change to a 4 turn turn from 5 turn corkscrew on 84 MM might even be earlier.the vintage Tinker smalls and Tourists I have with clip point blade all 4 turn corkscrews...
If the blade you are talking about is on the bottom... The climber small I mentioned also has it.

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2017, 01:23:43 AM »
So would that mean that the climber small I tore apart, with 5 turn corkscrew, +pat on can opener, scraper on the bottle opener was likely made in the late 60's? :think:
Very interesting and cool.  :tu:

I'd say so... I think the change to a 4 turn turn from 5 turn corkscrew on 84 MM might even be earlier.the vintage Tinker smalls and Tourists I have with clip point blade all 4 turn corkscrews...
If the blade you are talking about is on the bottom... The climber small I mentioned also has it.
(Image removed from quote.)

You mean the climber small has 5-turn?

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,068 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2017, 09:35:43 AM »
So would that mean that the climber small I tore apart, with 5 turn corkscrew, +pat on can opener, scraper on the bottle opener was likely made in the late 60's? :think:
Very interesting and cool.  :tu:

I'd say so... I think the change to a 4 turn turn from 5 turn corkscrew on 84 MM might even be earlier.the vintage Tinker smalls and Tourists I have with clip point blade all 4 turn corkscrews...
If the blade you are talking about is on the bottom... The climber small I mentioned also has it.
(Image removed from quote.)

You mean the climber small has 5-turn?
Pics of parts.
Maybe I should put it back together?  :think:

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2017, 05:10:04 PM »
Man, what a sweet knife (at one point)

Yeah I'd say pre 71 for those parts... Maybe 68... none of the 84mm w/ clip point small blade that I own have a 5 turn... which makes me think this changed earlier...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 06:59:38 PM by El Corkscrew »

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,068 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2017, 05:45:48 PM »
Man, what a sweet knife (at one point)

Yeah I'd say pre 71 for those parts... Maybe 68... none of the 84mm w/ clip point small blade have a 5 turn... which makes me think this changed earlier...
Or it could have been sent to vic in the 70's?

When I got it, the blade backspring was knackered. The place on the spring where the corkscrew rubs was worn enough that all the tools on that layer were flopping out.  :o

And the corkscrew tang is a little worn too.... just enough that with a new unworn spring,  it has a little less tension than it should, but more than enough.

Gosh...

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Hero Member Posts: 565
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2017, 12:41:57 AM »
Man, what a sweet knife (at one point)

Yeah I'd say pre 71 for those parts... Maybe 68... none of the 84mm w/ clip point small blade that I own have a 5 turn... which makes me think this changed earlier...

Hi, El C, maybe this small climber that I have can give some light to confirm your '68 theory.

It has clip point small blade , 5 turn corkscrew, "PAT" can opener, nickel tweezers and ... Bail !!



Cheers
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,068 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2017, 12:47:58 AM »
Man, what a sweet knife (at one point)

Yeah I'd say pre 71 for those parts... Maybe 68... none of the 84mm w/ clip point small blade that I own have a 5 turn... which makes me think this changed earlier...

Hi, El C, maybe this small climber that I have can give some light to confirm your '68 theory.

It has clip point small blade , 5 turn corkscrew, "PAT" can opener, nickel tweezers and ... Bail !!

(Image removed from quote.)

Cheers
Interesting!  :ahhh :cheers: :salute:
Mine looks the same, but no bail.  ??? :'(

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2017, 04:46:42 AM »
There are variations through the ages with and without bail as well as with and without scale tools....  they liked to keep it interesting

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,068 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2018, 06:17:29 PM »
:bump:

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2018, 06:55:56 PM »
I'd like to make a diagram with only the evolution of Soldier tools as they are a little different...

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,068 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2018, 07:00:21 PM »
I’d study that diagram.  :D

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 3,613
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2018, 11:15:03 PM »
I'd like to make a diagram with only the evolution of Soldier tools as they are a little different...

Oooo - That sounds like a good idea/project   :tu:    :D   ....

..... Shall I have a crack at it  ??? - I'd use a similar template
- But possibly transpose the rows and columns as there are not too many tools - But several changes (ie dates)
I've been doing quite bit of work in the Wiki recently on the Solidiers - So the info is quite fresh in my mind

Or are you going to do it El C ?

Am definitely going to update and publish version VII of this one - in the next couple of weeks
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 11:17:03 PM by Huntsman »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2018, 01:34:04 AM »
Either way is cool with me.  Your chart is pretty cool so if it's easier for you, go right ahead. :)

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 3,613
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2018, 05:43:45 AM »
Well folks - I can’t believe its two years since I last published an update to this spreadsheet.

Nothing much happened for the first 18 months or so – But a lot has happened in the last six – So it’s time to issue Version viii - Which is a very significant version
More about that later – Here's a very high level summary of the changes  …..
  • We have a few new rows for some of the later years
  • We have a new column (the last one)
  • We also have several new tools (not in new columns !?) – See if you can spot them  ???   ;)
  • Some formatting and usability changes   :tu:
  • And quite a few date shifts from the previous versions    :think:
I have made refinements to the table using information from threads on this forum, other internet locations, and a little of my own research.
A big 'Thank you' to everyone who has contributed to date discussions on this forum – especially Jazzbass, whose knowledge never ceases to amaze, and El Corkscrew and all other contributors to this thread and others.

This version is significant for the following reasons:
  • We have deviated from a couple of well-known SAK dating resources: SAAMS and even Victorinox themselves, eg on external rivets, opener and corkscrew changes. This step was not taken lightly - However I believe the knowledge here is more accurate than these sources !!   :o
  • I can’t believe how much this spready has evolved over the years – Compare the first and last versions in this thread  .….  however .…. This may well be the last version of the spreadsheet  :o   :'(   As I can't imagine too many more changes
  • I am planning to put this version into SAKWiki. Mr. E requested this early in this thread – I think this version is possibly worthy – However it will be suitably disclaimed/explained – Not least of which because SAK dating is as much of an art as a science!! Please let me know if anyone has any objections to this! 
As always feedback on all content most welcome

Here are the PDF and Jpeg versions …….
I hope they are useful

ENJOY     :ahhh
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 08:22:58 AM by Huntsman »
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,610
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2018, 06:56:34 AM »
Wonderfull...

Buy now or regret later
Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,935 I brake for cake
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2018, 07:05:21 AM »
Good work Huntsman. :like:
No Life Club Posts: 1,446
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2018, 07:43:55 AM »
Excellent work, again!
May I add that scissors blade shape also slightly changed over the ages ?
:-)

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,068 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Something to help you date your Vic SAKS based on tool evolution
« Reply #59 on: February 02, 2018, 11:39:44 AM »
 :salute:

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!

 

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