Victorinox 58mm vs Wenger 65mm

[Cauldronborn]

Hi  guy's.

I see a lot of people here talk about Victorinox's 58mm "Classic" range and one or two about the 74mm line from time to time, but almost nobody seems to talk about Wenger's (or at least what used to be Wenger's) 65mm line and I find myself asking why?

I should note before going any further that I'm not a big guy, 5'10" medium build. 

I have tried all three sizes, to be precise a classic, a pocket tool chest & an executive.

In my experience the classic was nice and small on the keyring but the downside was that this made it awkward to use as it was a bit too small in my hand to be comfortable. The executive was just TOO big to comfortably keep on the key ring but was very easy to use, I tend to keep it for when I need to wear a suit.  The Wenger pocket tool chest however was a nice and balance compromise in terms of size, comfort & usability.  I find it small enough to carry on my key ring but big enough to use for everyday urban problems.

I can understand the general public since Victorinox was much more common than Wenger but I would of expected a few more people here to mention the 65mm line.   

So, just why is the 58mm "Classic" size so much more preferred?
   

[Caranthanus]

Well, perhaps isn't the size that count that much, but tools selection 

Wenger MicroLight Pocket Tool Chest is great tool, but has not:
- cut & picker blade
- emergency blade
- dedicated phillips
- ruler
- pen and
- (dedicated) cuticle pusher

Wenger MicroLight Pocket Tool Chest


Midnite MiniChamp

 

[gene stoner]

I  guy's.

I see a lot of people here talk about Victorinox's 58mm "Classic" range and one or two about the 74mm line from time to time, but almost nobody seems to talk about Wenger's (or at least what used to be Wenger's) 65mm line and I find myself asking why?

I should note before going any further that I'm not a big guy, 5'10" medium build. 

I have tried all three sizes, to be precise a classic, a pocket tool chest & an executive.

In my experience the classic was nice and small on the keyring but the downside was that this made it awkward to use as it was a bit too small in my hand to be comfortable. The executive was just TOO big to comfortably keep on the key ring but was very easy to use, I tend to keep it for when I need to wear a suit.  The Wenger pocket tool chest however was a nice and balance compromise in terms of size, comfort & usability.  I find it small enough to carry on my key ring but big enough to use for everyday urban problems.

I can understand the general public since Victorinox was much more common than Wenger but I would of expected a few more people here to mention the 65mm line.   

So, just why is the 58mm "Classic" size so much more preferred?
 

I prefer the 65mm. I carry a Pocket tool chest in my change pocket. I have a couple of 58's but they're just to small for me. The tool chest is the perfect tool combo for me. I use it more then my farmer which I carry  almost every day with it.

[bmot]

I have only one 65mm Wenger, an Esquire, but I think I like the Vic's more. Prefer the Vic scissors, and the tools (certainly on the Rambler) are just more suited to my needs. Love the stainless steel scales though 

[Fattsgalore]

I despise the Wenger 65mm. Like the form, but not it's function. Hate the 65mm scissors. The bobbing is annoying. They literally wont cut paracord, instead gnawing on it like a dog. Plus Wenger tweezers aren't as good as Vic's. I can pluck hairs with 58mm Vic tweezers no problem, but Wenger tweezers flex making them inferior at that task.
 
I have 3 65mm's and I actually don't want the three I have. Others may love them, but I'm not in that boat. Was not mad Victorinox bought them out, only mad they kept their scissors design...

[Syph007]

The scissors are the deal breaker for me on the wengers.  I just dont like them.

[RedRamage]

I can understand the general public since Victorinox was much more common than Wenger but I would of expected a few more people here to mention the 65mm line.   

So, just why is the 58mm "Classic" size so much more preferred?

If I had to guess, I'd say that SAK fans tend to lean towards Victorinox more than Wenger due to commonality.  Victorinox are just more common and easier to come by.   Now after collectors and big fans get into the world we all learn about Wenger and know how to get Wenger is we so desire... So the question is, why do so many stay with Vic, or are least lean that direction?

My guess is that Victorinox look better.  To be sure, there's nothing wrong with how Wenger's look, but honestly, the Victorinox look is just more classy in my opinion.  Everything from the Logo to the tools just feels classier with Vic.  Functionally that might be a stupid way to judge something, but as a collector... as someone who puts them in display cases and likes to show them off to others, isn't that everything?

I suppose it's entirely possible that you can be a collector of Vic while being an EDCer of Wenger, but that just feels... off some how.  Like maybe being a Baseball card collector, but not enjoying the game itself at all.  Or collecting Ford related things, but preferring to drive Chevys.  Maybe it makes sense logically, but emotionally it feels off.

[Caranthanus]

The scissors

65mm wenger pocket tool chest   &   58mm victorinox minichamp



65mm wenger pocket tool chest scissors

[Etherealicer]

My guess is that Victorinox look better.  To be sure, there's nothing wrong with how Wenger's look, but honestly, the Victorinox look is just more classy in my opinion.  Everything from the Logo to the tools just feels classier with Vic.  Functionally that might be a stupid way to judge something, but as a collector... as someone who puts them in display cases and likes to show them off to others, isn't that everything?

You should definitively look at the Delemont Collection then. For me it makes all the difference in the looks department, the Evo scales went from "mehhh" to "yes, please"!!!

[enki_ck]

While I prefer most Wenger models of the same tool configuration to their Vic counterparts, in the 58mm vrs the 65mm fight, I vote 58mm all the way. While the bobbing head motion on the 85mm doesn't bother me, on the 65mm it irks me quite a bit. Seems very noticeable in that size. As the scissors are the most used tool for me in this size, it's a deal breaker for me.

[Cauldronborn]

Ok, so it seems the main consideration is the eternal scissors devide. Now that I can get, but as for the pocket tool chest compared to the mini champ.

Personaly I find the minichamps tool load to be very redundent, nail file and a separate philips driver? why not the st nail file with the ruler stamped on the back?

Now I'm not knocking the mini champ or the  58mm line, I just find the size and tool selecation to be better with the 65mm though I do agree with the scissors but the amount of use I have for them I can put up with the bobbing.

[nate j]

I'm glad the 65 mm knives seem to be a sweet spot for you.  IMO, however, another reason (besides the scissors) that they aren't more popular is because the size just doesn't fill a need that many people have.  To wit:

• Want a SAK that packs function into the smallest available package, and nearly disappears in a pocket or on a key chain?  Then get a 58 mm.
• Want a SAK that is a bit more comfortable in the hand but still carries well in the pocket of dress slacks or a suit?  We agree the answer is a 74 mm.
• Want the widest variety of tool options in a size that provides a balance of carry-ability and usability?  Get a 85 mm or 91 mm.
• Need something a little beefier?  A 93 mm or 111 mm has you covered.

[Glofindel]

I like tools in Wenger but like the size of Vic, so here the best of both world.


Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

[lichan]

Glofindel,
I would really be interested in more information and pics of the 58mm Vic with the 65mm Wenger tools. I don't have enough posts yet to send a private message so I hope you will see this and respond. Really from anyone who has combined tools from one into the other. Thanks.

I like tools in Wenger but like the size of Vic, so here the best of both world.
(Image removed from quote.)

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

[zoidberg]

Glofindel,
I would really be interested in more information and pics of the 58mm Vic with the 65mm Wenger tools. I don't have enough posts yet to send a private message so I hope you will see this and respond. Really from anyone who has combined tools from one into the other. Thanks.

You should be good to send a PM now. 

[Corwyn]

To me the most used tools on 58 mm are scissors (for nails and paper), toothpick, Pen, Philips and nailfile.
The Vic wins on all counts. The Wenger scissors are atrocious on nails and paper.. wobbly head, serrations cannot do a straight cut, toothpick is hard to reach, nailfile is better and it's missing the Pen & Philips. Also 58 mm is a perfect size... If I want a bigger blade I'll get a Cadet or Compact.

[PTRSAK]

I an usually a defender of the Wenger scissors, I like them because they are tougher than the Vic scissors and can handle heavier cuts and generally more abuse, almost more like mini tin-snips than scissors... BUT the 65mm scissors are a little but pointless from that perspective.
Interestingly the very early Wenger scissors did not have the micro serrations. Perhaps the 65mm size would be better with that style of blades.



As for combined tool loadouts, I built a knife between the scales of a 74mm Alox Moneyclip with tools from 74mm, 58mm, 91mm Vic knives as well as the 65mm Wenger line.

Behold the MidiChamp

[Corwyn]

(Image removed from quote.)

Behold the perfect mini-knife. One question though... why go for Alox? You lost the T&T...

[shark_za]

I use Wenger 65mm for nail duty.
I only have this one and a clipper model.

The scissors cut nails well and the bigger file and cleaning tool is great.

[getahl]

For me, the Classic wins out for a couple reasons. I love how precise the Vic scissors are, and the fact that the SD tip on the file makes a swell 2d Phillips if the bees knees. I can't really speak to the Wenger scissors bobbing, I haven't used my PTC recently enough to remember.

The size difference makes zero difference to me.  An extra, what, eighth inch of blade length? Meh. The extra belly on Wenger knives is nice, but not enough to change my mind.

[cbl51]

For me, the Classic wins out for a couple reasons. I love how precise the Vic scissors are, and the fact that the SD tip on the file makes a swell 2d Phillips if the bees knees. I can't really speak to the Wenger scissors bobbing, I haven't used my PTC recently enough to remember.

The size difference makes zero difference to me.  An extra, what, eighth inch of blade length? Meh. The extra belly on Wenger knives is nice, but not enough to change my mind.

What he said plus 10.

I've always been more inclined for Victorinox for a could of reasons, most of them above. But there is one more; popularity.

The Vic classic is like the Bic lighter and pen. So widely used, they are all over the place. That means they are more available all over. I caan fly anywhere, pick up one at a big box store, and give it to the guy at the car rental counter at the airport when I leave. It's also the most confiscated knife in the world. That means when I go to the gun show, there's a dealer with boxes full of SAK's, and tons of them are little used classics in almost new condition, for 5 bucks a pop, or if you buy three or more, 2 dollars each. So I can keep a ton of them around to hand out to people I see struggling without a knife. Like the guy at the Home Depot store trying to cut off some cord from the spool with a car key. I give him a classic to use, and tell him to keep it for a penny. I get a copper coint form him.

I like to give away classics as a knife version of Giddeons bible. A gateway drug to get people used to having a nice small sharp knife with them. Convert the unwashed masses one by one, a classic at a time. Myabe, I hope, they get so used to it, that if they loose it or break it, they will actually go buy a classic or some other small keychain knife to keep on them.

I love the Vic 58's, and I love the classic more than all of them. It's the gateway drug to SAK's!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

The Vic for me too as I hate serrations at the best of times, let alone on scissors!

[Glofindel]

Glofindel,
I would really be interested in more information and pics of the 58mm Vic with the 65mm Wenger tools. I don't have enough posts yet to send a private message so I hope you will see this and respond. Really from anyone who has combined tools from one into the other. Thanks.

I like tools in Wenger but like the size of Vic, so here the best of both world.
(Image removed from quote.)

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

Hi Lichan
Please feel free to pm me or post here I am more than happy to answer any questions as best I can.

[Quartz]

As others have said, I think a large part of the popularity gap is due to Wenger just being hard to get a hold of internationally. When it comes to rivalries, people tend to get attached to whatever they're experienced to first or most often, and anything else that's too different is irrationally considered an "outsider" with some people going to great lengths to justify supposed inferiority. I used to have one of the Wenger 65's with the integrated folding nail clipper that I'd keep in my travel bag and I always thought it was great. I tend to prefer Wenger serrated scissors over Vics versions. (Vic tends to have the advantage on a lot of other tools though).

[cbl51]

As others have said, I think a large part of the popularity gap is due to Wenger just being hard to get a hold of internationally. When it comes to rivalries, people tend to get attached to whatever they're experienced to first or most often, and anything else that's too different is irrationally considered an "outsider" with some people going to great lengths to justify supposed inferiority. I used to have one of the Wenger 65's with the integrated folding nail clipper that I'd keep in my travel bag and I always thought it was great. I tend to prefer Wenger serrated scissors over Vics versions. (Vic tends to have the advantage on a lot of other tools though).

YES!

If Wenger had had the international marketing and distribution that Victorinox had, they would still be here! If Wengert had any problem, it was in the public relations and marketing field. Their SAK's were great!

But my very fist exposure to SAK's was Victoriox. That was all I saw in the sports stores where I was. When I first saw a Wenger, I actually thought it was some sort of imitation or knock off!!! Silly me, I didn't knw any better back then, but I learned. The Wenger SI became my favorite SAK of all time. Even once I knew about Wenger, it was seldom I saw any.

If anyone is too blame for the failure of Wenger, it rests with the upper corporate managers failing to get the name and brand out there.

Now they've went the way of Hudson, Nash, and Tucker automobiles. They were good cars, but just lacked the big names.

[smiller43147]

I recently started giving the Pocket Tool Chest some pocket time.  Had an injury to my right thigh, just below where the pant pocket hangs.  Needed something lighter than the Vic Compact or Super Tinker I usually carry.

The tool selection on the PTC does most of what a Super Tinker or Evolution 16 does.  It needs two little mods though:
- the awl needs an edge on it, and
- the eyeglass screwdriver needs an improvement:

[ChopperCharles]

Resurrecting a dead thread to put some more information out here.

If you like the SIZE of the 65mm Wengers, but hate the scissors, consider a Schrade Century Genesis. It has the 65mm body but Victorinox style scissors.

If you like the size of the smaller 58mm Classic SD, but want backspring scissors without serrations, and where the whole scissor doesn't move, just the arm you're using, then consider the Schrade DL-2.

Both of these knives are made in Germany, and are high quality. The DL-2 doesn't come with toothpick or tweezers, but the Century does, and I really *really* like the Century's tweezers. I like that they stay open and retain their springiness far better than vic or especially wenger.

Knife order in the photos:

• Victorinox Classic SD (Michelin)
• Schrade DL-2 (Texaco)
• Wenger Esquire (Valvoline)
• Schrade Century Star CN25

The scissors in both of the Schrade knives are the same size as Victorinox scissors. The DL2's are slightly pointier (is that a word?).  Even though the DL-2 has a backspring, the whole scissor doesn't move like Wenger's design. The wenger's scissors are larger, serrated, and they do move with every snip. The Century Star scissors look like a carbon copy of Victorinox scissors -- which I wouldn't doubt. For the larger 91mm knives in the Century line, they used blanks from Victorinox and built the knives under license. The Star knives, however, appear to have a custom 65mm chassis. It's slightly narrower than the Wenger and has cutouts in the end for the tweezers and toothpick. 91mm Victorinox scales fit on the 91mm Schrade Century knives, but no other scales will fit on the 65mm Century knives.

Note that the convention for the Century line is CNAX, where "A" is the model number, and "X" is the color. "1" is red, "2" is black, "5" is green, and I don't remember the rest.  The two most common you'll find are the CN21 and CN22 - red and black. The rest are super rare.  There is also another Century knife in the 65mm chassis, the CN1X Genesis. It has a nail file and a blade, but no scissors.

Also Note the DL-2 has really beautiful clear scales that are polished and see-through. The Texaco logo you see, and the red color, is all on the bottom of the scale. It looks like really deep, beautiful automotive clear coat over a top-quality paint job. It's a very rich look. Not sure how it would hold up in a pocket, though.

I didn't post pics of it, but the Wenger has the longest blade, followed by the Schrade Century Star. The SD and DL-2 have identical blades. Only the SD has a screwdriver tip on the nail file, the rest have points for cleaning under the nail. HOWEVER, I have seen the Century Star with a screwdriver tip on the nail file, so that may be a change made later in the production run.

Charles.