Survival kit minimum size blade?

[Lynn LeFey]

So, assuming you need a blade in a little survival tin, or emergency kit or whatever.

Where do you draw the line for minimum size where you'd still feel that you had an adequate size tool?

I know for day to day work, I have no problem using the 58mm blade. And I have briefly owned a moneyclip in 74mm, but neither make me feel like I could really accomplish much with the blade, particularly in tasks like whittling for shelter building.

This makes me think that the 84mm (Vic) and 85mm (Delemont) are where real capacity start to come in. I honestly think that something as slim as a Cadet might also cause problems. Not due to blade length, but because the handle is too slim to get an easy grip on for prolonged tasks with high exertion.

I'm certain that a 91mm Hiker would be excellent, particularly when adding in the saw. I THINK I could go as small as a 85mm Backpacker.

For the record, in a normal size Altoids tin, the 91mm is the longest tool that will fit without going diagonal in the tin.

This isn't a topic I have a burning desire to answer, just something as a point of discussion.

[dmanuel]

4" and 3/16" thick

It won't be fitting in any altoids tin, but then again that never enters into my equation. I want something that I can baton, use for large cutting chores, and still be small enough to do good whittling with. My ideal blade is around 4.5"-5.5" in length and 3/16" thick, 1/4" is just too big imo.

[Etherealicer]

I'm very comfortable with short and stubby blades like the victorinox electrician blade.

But keep in mind. Survival requirements are not the same everywhere, here in Switzerland I would probably go with cell-phone > money > REGA membership card > then maybe a knife

[SAK Guy]

I think a flat 93mm Pioneer/Soldier will fit in an Altoids tin as well. The ALOX SAKs are great survival tools and they do not freeze up like the cellidor models do from lack of maintenance. I love cellidor SAKs but ALOX get the nod for long term, severe use IMO.

Added Pic;

Farmer

[Lynn LeFey]

I stand corrected.


Here's a Farmer in a standard size Altoids tin. Well... that would certainly be a very capable blade (and tool package) for emergencies.

I was certain I'd tested this before and couldn't get it to fit. However, I have in the past accidentally set the lanyard ring facing toward the outside of the tin with the 91mm, and caused problems with it fitting. So maybe that's what happened when I tested before? Or maybe I'm just old and forgetful?

[SAK Guy]

LOL...I had to check again too!

[Fattsgalore]

Emergency knife will be any blade, a survival knife will be something you could used as a weapon, baton wood, skin game, etc.

A fixed blade around 8" of decent steel would be where you'd want your survival knife to be. For your emergency tin, pop in any SAK that'll fit or a razor/utility knife.

[comis]

Hey, Lynn.

My favorite blade for an 'altoid tin' or similar kind of kit is the 84mm Alox Lumberjack, it may be a little pricey but it does most of the jobs a Farmer can do while in a smaller package(saw, blade and combo tool).  Of course, if your kit has enough room to host Farmer, it's even better to handle.

If you want even thinner profile and just a decent knife, I would suggest SOG Micron 2.0 or Gerber LST are both pretty good options as well.  I have tried small 'fixed blade' like the CRKT MK5 or the TOP Turley 23, but personally, I felt their handle and blade are both too small and I find myself more efficient with the folding slip joint/locking blade.

[SAK Guy]

Emergency knife will be any blade, a survival knife will be something you could used as a weapon, baton wood, skin game, etc.

A fixed blade around 8" of decent steel would be where you'd want your survival knife to be. For your emergency tin, pop in any SAK that'll fit or a razor/utility knife.

+1 on the fixed blades. I have Carbon V SRK's/Ontario USMC's/BK-2s in my Emergency kits/bags as well. Each bag has an ALOX SAK Soldier and a Swiss Champ/Hercules/OHT as well.

[comis]

Just tested different configuration of fitting a farmer into a standard altoid tin.  There is no way a Farmer could be fitted in flush and nicely with the lanyard ring between the tin and the tool.  But if the Farmer is fitted into the tin like shown in the picture, then it can almost fit in all the top to the top or bottom

There is no way to fit in the Farmer when with either the spring facing up or down.

Hope this helps, and on survival tin, I do often feel Altoid tin size is a tad too small to fit everything I need, and I usually prefer a small postcard tin instead.

[Lynn LeFey]

My favorite blade for an 'altoid tin' or similar kind of kit is the 84mm Alox Lumberjack

Nice. I can't even find one for sale, though. Checking SAK Wiki... yeah, discontinued. :/

Looks like a good choice, though.

I typed and removed three responses to the notion of longer fixed blades, but all seemed overly argumentative. So, instead let me just say you can skin game with a 58mm, you're better served with a 3' club than a knife for self defense, and I have never needed to baton wood to make a good fire (and I've made hundreds in the woods).

[SAK Guy]

Yeah, but how ya gonna make ultra sophisticated alien traps with a 58mm 

[Lynn LeFey]

Yeah, but how ya gonna make ultra sophisticated alien traps with a 58mm 

'Slowly'?

I admit it would sure bog down the 'flexing men montage'. 

Also, by looking at the shot above, NOW I understand why you need to carry 200 feet of paracord.

[SAK Guy]

Yeah, but how ya gonna make ultra sophisticated alien traps with a 58mm 

'Slowly'?

I admit it would sure bog down the 'flexing men montage'. 

   You're sure gonna be late to da choppa!

[Subterranean]

In the last few years, I've seen more and more people recommend the Vic Farmer as the most useful and convenient knife/multitool for the Altoids-tin mini survival kit. I would also choose that model. You can't go wrong with its blade, saw and reamer in an outdoor survival situation.

The '08 Soldier or Trekker would be even better, but they don't fit the Altoids tin.

[Subterranean]

The 58 mm Vics can be of use in a mini medic kit. You know, the small, clean blade that is used only for cutting gauzes and stuff. For example the alox Classic SD would be perfect. The whole knife can be cleaned with disinfecting agents, including the alox scales.

[sir_mike]

Pioneer or Cadet size would work. 

If I wanted a locking blade, the smallest I would go would be a Spyderco Dragonfly but more than likely I would go with a Delica.

[ColoSwiss]

My survival kit is a bit more extensive, but it would enable me to survive something fairly major. It fits in a small fanny pack rather than a tin.

- emergency poncho
- space blanket
- bag with large trash bag (bivy bag/water carrier), large bandages, 20' paracord
- Victorinox Nomad
- metal case with lifeboat matches
- waterproof match case with strike-anywhere marches
- magnesium firestarter
- candle for fire starting
- Silva compass
- water purification tablets
- spare glasses
- loud whistle
- pill box with essential medicine
- metal signal mirror (not shown)

[dmanuel]

Like you said in a previous post, it's a calorie game. Can you field dress a deer and cut through his tendons and bones with a farmer? Sure, but why work harder than you need to when a 4.5" blade can make shorter, and safer work, of an animal? However, working smart instead of hard is the name of the game. Otherwise we would just pack ourselves and venture out into the woods to make stone and bone tools.

Personally, I would love to see someone here tackle bamboo with a saw. There is a reason nobody in the world uses a saw on bamboo, way too slow and too work intensive. You could, don't get me wrong, but then we are going right back to that "work smart" thing.

I'm glad you've never had to split wood before, but that is something I've had to do a lot, especially with bamboo. Can't just throw whole bamboo on the fire or it can explode. We also have to split it to make cordage, fish traps, spear guns, etc with it.

[Lynn LeFey]

Personally, I would love to see someone here tackle bamboo with a saw.

I'm in the midwest U.S. There is no bamboo here. Well, except some used in landscaping at the zoo. 

[ironraven]

3" if a folder, 2" for a fixed.

[dmanuel]

Personally, I would love to see someone here tackle bamboo with a saw.

I'm in the midwest U.S. There is no bamboo here. Well, except some used in landscaping at the zoo. 

Lol fair enough, we use it for everything here. I'm soaking it up as much as I can while I am here because there is a lot of bamboo at home in SE Texas/SW Louisiana. I'm hoping to learn which ones are edible, how to make permanent structures, and of course all the other tricks.

[Lynn LeFey]

I'm fairly certain there are varieties of bamboo that WILL grow here, and I've seen it used for everything in Florida. Just never had to deal wit hit myself.

It's fair to say that survival kits WILL have to be tailored to your specific living location.

[gene stoner]

Like you said in a previous post, it's a calorie game. Can you field dress a deer and cut through his tendons and bones with a farmer? Sure, but why work harder than you need to when a 4.5" blade can make shorter, and safer work, of an animal? However, working smart instead of hard is the name of the game. Otherwise we would just pack ourselves and venture out into the woods to make stone and bone tools.

Personally, I would love to see someone here tackle bamboo with a saw. There is a reason nobody in the world uses a saw on bamboo, way too slow and too work intensive. You could, don't get me wrong, but then we are going right back to that "work smart" thing.

I'm glad you've never had to split wood before, but that is something I've had to do a lot, especially with bamboo. Can't just throw whole bamboo on the fire or it can explode. We also have to split it to make cordage, fish traps, spear guns, etc with it.

Sometimes it's about the tool you have not the tool you wish you had.  A Farmer is always in my pocket if I had a hatchet or machete in my pocket that would be great but they don't fit in my pocket but a Farmer dose.

Just my .02

[AimlessWanderer]

I think a Farmer or Harvester would be a very respectable choice for an Altoids tin ..... although, personally I'd still prefer a 3.1/2" to 4.1/2" fixed blade knife. Cold Steel's Finn Bear or Roach Belly are very cheap, very lightweight, very versatile and easy to sharpen. They're not completely bomb proof with not being full tang, but as a budget multipurpose knife I've found them very useful (my preference being the Roach Belly). If used with due dilligence (not mistreated), they would handle most tasks with ease

[comis]

I think it is rather important to have an independent blade in a survival tin/package, so we are not solely assume/relying on having a large blade on our side.

My logic is to assume the worst case scenario that if you are stuck/lost with nothing(yes, clothed, I ain't Arno )  but a 'survival package'(mine includes a 2 person mylar sheet and a large mirror), will the package still prove to be useful?

[sir_mike]

^^^   That must be where the saying "two is one and one is none" comes from!

[dmanuel]

Like you said in a previous post, it's a calorie game. Can you field dress a deer and cut through his tendons and bones with a farmer? Sure, but why work harder than you need to when a 4.5" blade can make shorter, and safer work, of an animal? However, working smart instead of hard is the name of the game. Otherwise we would just pack ourselves and venture out into the woods to make stone and bone tools.

Personally, I would love to see someone here tackle bamboo with a saw. There is a reason nobody in the world uses a saw on bamboo, way too slow and too work intensive. You could, don't get me wrong, but then we are going right back to that "work smart" thing.

I'm glad you've never had to split wood before, but that is something I've had to do a lot, especially with bamboo. Can't just throw whole bamboo on the fire or it can explode. We also have to split it to make cordage, fish traps, spear guns, etc with it.

Sometimes it's about the tool you have not the tool you wish you had.  A Farmer is always in my pocket if I had a hatchet or machete in my pocket that would be great but they don't fit in my pocket but a Farmer dose.

Just my .02

It's always about the tool that you have on you, and you should never dwell on what you do not have. That is a quick way to let things spiral out of control and lose any morale you did have.

I understand this idea, however the question was what is the ideal knife size for a survival kit. While I don't do much in the line of "survival" I do practice bushcraft, which many would say is the same thing. The assumption on my part is that this scenario plays into me carrying that kit with me, otherwise this just becomes a discussion on best EDC blade size for survival purposes.

Now that being said, I have never suddenly found myself in the midst of the wilds while being unprepared. I've never experienced sudden, and unwanted, teleportation that dropped me off in the swamps or forest at home or in a jungle here. Everytime I go out camping, kayaking, rafting, hiking, hunting, or fishing I have a small lumbar bag that goes with me. It doesn't matter if it's a quick day hike or a week long camping trip, that pack, or more, is with me. Short of me ditching the pack I will have my supplies with me, and even if I do that my knife and a few other pieces of kit are located on my belt.

While a person could get by with less, why would they want to? Cleaning a game animal and cutting through the chest cavity would be a seriously difficult chore with a folding knife that exerts all of it's force on a small brass pin, not to mention the safety hazards that accompany using a non locking, folding knife in such a situation. I've hunted with many people that used nothing more than a Buck 110, and it worked great for them until they tried to go through bone. While it is plausible it is not ideal, and ideal was the topic of discussion.

[Subterranean]

Of course a non-locking 93mm SAK isn't the tool of the choice for skinning a game, but there are different types of survival, depending on your location and situation.

I think of those small "Altoids kits" primarily as a small personal bare-essentials container, kept in a trouser/jacket pocket for an expected urban bug-out expected-72h-rescue disaster situation. They can also be used for the "abandon-civilisation-completely" situations too, but that's a completely different story and I think a fixed knife is a must-have item for these situations. For example, everyone in Europe/America could afford at least a Mora Companion - affordable and solid general-purpose light knife, it can be bought for less than $20, so there's no real excuse for not owning at least one knife like that.

[RedRamage]

Of course a non-locking 93mm SAK isn't the tool of the choice for skinning a game, but there are different types of survival, depending on your location and situation.

I think of those small "Altoids kits" primarily as a small personal bare-essentials container, kept in a trouser/jacket pocket for an expected urban bug-out expected-72h-rescue disaster situation. They can also be used for the "abandon-civilisation-completely" situations too, but that's a completely different story and I think a fixed knife is a must-have item for these situations. For example, everyone in Europe/America could afford at least a Mora Companion - affordable and solid general-purpose light knife, it can be bought for less than $20, so there's no real excuse for not owning at least one knife like that.

I think you kinda hit it on the head here.  Are you talking about a kit you keep in your (urban) back pack that you almost always have with you?  Then I'm thinking 91mm minimum. 

Are you talking about a micro-kit/altoid sized kit?  Well, then you want smaller because the emphasis  is on portability.  Too big and you'll never care it with you always, so smaller is better than nothing here.

Are you talking a kit for your car? Or that goes in a wilderness backpack?  Then I'd say go for a larger and/or fixed blade.