Vic pin sizes/compatibility?

[Quartz]

I can't seem to find an answer for this (maybe I'm not looking in the right places)

Does anyone have a listing of all the different pin sizes for all of Victorinox's family lines? Which pins from which positions on which sizes are cross compatible, if any? I'm trying to figure out which parts I can mix and match with the least amount of modification.

[eddie1115]

Found this post from Syph that seems pretty complete:

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=51284.msg866435.msg#866435

[Quartz]

Wait, are we sure the center pins on a 91mm are 2.2? I thought they were 2.25

[Quartz]

...and his list doesn't cover the 111mm lockback family.

[Syph007]

Check here for 111mm teardowns.

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,48172.msg794833.html#msg794833

For slide locks



For liner locks



I think you might be right the actual Vic stock size is 2.25mm but that is not a size that is sold anywhere, but 2.2mm is.  Interestingly enough, the backside tools on 91's have 2.5mm holes anyhow so the pin size of 2.2 or 2.25 really doesnt matter.

To answer your original question though.  Tools are only compatible with SAKs of the same frame size.  Pivot holes are different on all of them.  Its even worse on the 111mm size since the different lock types are different hole sizes.  Luckily though the geometry is the same though so one only has to widen the holes of tools on the slider lock frames to fit the liner lock ones.

Cheers!

[Quartz]

So I read that thread....
wharblegarble..... why does Vic hate modders so much?

I have a question though: when you say "Tools are only compatible with SAKs of the same frame size.  Pivot holes are different on all of them", you mean the holes are in a different position, right? As opposed to a different diameter? What I mean is, according to your teardowns the 'end' tools on a slide-lock 111mm and a 91mm both have 2.5mm pins. I was under the assumption that things like the scissors and openers were identical between the two families, are you saying they're not?

One specific idea I was toying with was putting the 111mm 'long inline small phillips' on a 91mm. Based on what you're saying, I'm guessing that just won't work?

[Quartz]

Oh, and for clarification:
My 'workshop' basically consists of a Dremel and a desk. With any mod you're pretty much guaranteed to have to do some kind of grinding or something obviously, but since I don't have the tools to do a lot of things right I'm trying to keep it simple. I'm not asking which tools are drop-in replacements for eachother, so much as "what can I do that doesn't require a carbide drill, vise, and pile of brass stock?"

[Syph007]

So I read that thread....
wharblegarble..... why does Vic hate modders so much?

I have a question though: when you say "Tools are only compatible with SAKs of the same frame size.  Pivot holes are different on all of them", you mean the holes are in a different position, right? As opposed to a different diameter? What I mean is, according to your teardowns the 'end' tools on a slide-lock 111mm and a 91mm both have 2.5mm pins. I was under the assumption that things like the scissors and openers were identical between the two families, are you saying they're not?

One specific idea I was toying with was putting the 111mm 'long inline small phillips' on a 91mm. Based on what you're saying, I'm guessing that just won't work?

I was meaning the holes are mostly a different diameter.  But you're right about the scissors as an example on the 111mm.  Thats exactly the same component from the 91.  The pliers are as well except for the nail nick.  The openers on the slide locks are from the 91mm SAKs, the can opener on the liner lock is from a 93mm SAK, and the bottle opener is a custom tool since its locking.

It would be very difficult to put the long phillips driver on a 91 since its only a half pivot tool.  Its designed to snap open and not closed.  The springs on 91s are also incredibly tool specific so mixing and matching just doesn't work well at all.  That long phillips is a great screwdriver though and was one of the reasons I wanted to mod a 111mm for EDC so I could have that with the scissors layer on me.

[Quartz]

I'm less concerned about the 'snap closed' part, as I'd be pairing it with some other tool holding it down on top (and I can always file down the meat around the pivot a little to encourage it to not be floppy). I'm more concerned about whether the pivot hole diameter and position will even let me pair it with a 91mm spring of any variety and sit in such a way that it will even open in the first place.

I get the feeling I'm going to have to just break up a Hercules and Swiss Champ and see what I can get... won't be easy on the wallet tho'

[Quartz]

One more thing:
"Interestingly enough, the backside tools on 91's have 2.5mm holes anyhow so the pin size of 2.2 or 2.25 really doesnt matter."

Would the mounts for normal celidor scales on a 91mm support that though? Wouldn't you need to use a bushing for the bigger pin, and wouldn't that mean carving out space in the scale to accommodate it?

EDIT: I wrote this meaning if you used a 2.5 pin instead of 2.2, but looking at your thread again, the springs only have pin cutouts for 2.2x anyway?

[archerwin]

Can we use 2.2mm brass tubes like this:

http://www.gromaxonline.com/product_p/br220.htm

or is it not strong enough?

[PTRSAK]

There is actually a 2.25mm in that thick wall brass tubing.

I wonder what the centre dia is on that (and the 2.5 and 3.0mm)  could be a basis for some tapped pins for screw together SAKs

[hiraethus]

So I read that thread....
wharblegarble..... why does Vic hate modders so much?

I very much doubt they do, but the products are just not designed to be taken apart and modified.

I get the feeling I'm going to have to just break up a Hercules and Swiss Champ and see what I can get... won't be easy on the wallet tho'

Yep.  It gets pricey if you can't find a cheap source for parts.

[archerwin]

There is actually a 2.25mm in that thick wall brass tubing.

I wonder what the centre dia is on that (and the 2.5 and 3.0mm)  could be a basis for some tapped pins for screw together SAKs

so brass tubes can be used? I think it can still be peened as the wall is thick.

what do you think?

[hiraethus]

I would think that the brass tubing would be ok to use.  I make my own from 3mm brass rod, drilled and tapped to accept 2mm screws and they seem plenty strong enough.  Someone off here (crackout or lowtech maybe?) did some destructive testing on the brass tube and seemed to think it was plenty strong enough.

I'd like to try some thin walled 3mm brass tube for Alox rivets to enable a bail to be used, like the Wenger SI.

[archerwin]

I would think that the brass tubing would be ok to use.  I make my own from 3mm brass rod, drilled and tapped to accept 2mm screws and they seem plenty strong enough.  Someone off here (crackout or lowtech maybe?) did some destructive testing on the brass tube and seemed to think it was plenty strong enough.

I'd like to try some thin walled 3mm brass tube for Alox rivets to enable a bail to be used, like the Wenger SI.

great!!! 

[lowtech]

I would think that the brass tubing would be ok to use.  I make my own from 3mm brass rod, drilled and tapped to accept 2mm screws and they seem plenty strong enough.  Someone off here (crackout or lowtech maybe?) did some destructive testing on the brass tube and seemed to think it was plenty strong enough.

I'd like to try some thin walled 3mm brass tube for Alox rivets to enable a bail to be used, like the Wenger SI.

While I am all in for destructive testing (Motorcycles in particular...) I´m not the one who did so with brass tubing.
But I think it should be strong enough - Wenger and Vic used hollow rivets on their soldier/Pioneers to fix bails.

[Jake]

Those brass tubes are intended for use as EDM electrodes I believe.  I actually bought one from MSC but they sent me the wrong size.  After they refunded my order I decided not to pursue this again.

I thought these would make a nice start for custom brass pivots-- the hole would serve as a nice pilot hole, and you could drill a 2.25mm out for a 0-80 thread.  (I've successfully ground a 2.5mm rod down to 2.25 and drilled/tapped for 0-80 and built a knife successfully, but not gone the brass EDM electrode route)

I didn't want to buy $30+ worth of these tubes.  My next 84mm mod is going to be a 2.5mm pivot, and I'm just going to drill out the tools and scales.  2.5mm brass rod is much easier to obtain.

[PTRSAK]

I have done a few 84mm mods using 3/32" rod which is 2.38mm and drilling the holes out to suit with a carbide drill bit.

Luckily at the moment I still have a couple of lengths of 2.2mm left. But my local source of 2.5 has dried up.

[neillcurrie]

I have done a few 84mm mods using 3/32" rod which is 2.38mm and drilling the holes out to suit with a carbide drill bit.

Luckily at the moment I still have a couple of lengths of 2.2mm left. But my local source of 2.5 has dried up.

I believe K&S sells 2.5mm brass, and some other useful diameters too, on ebay and/or amazon. I had to get 2.2mm from a stockist in England though, shipping wasn't bad.

[PTRSAK]

yeah, I've ordered some off eBay.

But it was convenient to pick it up from the local hobby shop 10 min up the road.

[Syph007]

yeah, I've ordered some off eBay.

But it was convenient to pick it up from the local hobby shop 10 min up the road.

Ya once in a while I get to get pin stock form the local hobby shop too and its handy.  They dont have any metric though so I have to order those.  They have 1/16 inch aluminum rod which I use to rivet aluminum spacers and liners together when I anodize them as one piece, and it works quite well.