Vic combo tool?

[Quartz]

Question: are modern 91mm and 84mm combo tools *really* identical/interchangeable? The sakwiki says they are, but I have in my possession an "84mm combo tool" that isn't the same as the one that's supposed to come with the Compact, according to pictures.

I'm trying to make a custom 91mm SAK with a combo tool, and I'm wondering if I can get away with buying a Bantam or if I have to shell out for the Compact (seeing as it's apparently the only 91mm with a combo tool).

[GigaHz]

Besides the hole being smaller and it falls a little further in the frame, they work just fine.

[Quartz]

Wait, I'm confused. Do 84's have smaller end pins than 91's? I can never get Vic's pin sizes straight.

[GigaHz]

84mm = 2.2mm and 91mm = 2.5mm

[Syph007]

The 84 combos are just a hair thinner, and overall smaller in profile.  Almost like the whole thing is shrunk by 5%.  I think people have used 84s on 91s fine, but they for sure do not work well on 93 in my experience.  I only buy the 91 combos for 93 mods.

[Quartz]

Not all the pins on a 91 are 2.5 though.

Anyway, so basically an 84mm combotool is not a direct drop-in replacement for a 91mm small blade, I'd need to drill out the hole and it would still sit a little weird? That's annoying.

EDIT: (widening an 84mm pivot hole is outside of my capabilities as I don't have any carbide drill bits or a drill to use them in).

[Syph007]

There is a pic  on here somewhere that compares 91 and 84 combo on 91s and it sits lower but I think the nick is accessible still.  I'll try to find it.

Found it, it was Gareth's pic.

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,9544.msg176006.html#msg176006

[Quartz]

Bleh, why can I never find posts with clear info like this when I search.. :/ Thanks for that link though.

So I guess the next question then is, are there any 91mm besides the Compact that have a combotool? Throwing $31 at a knife just for one tool is silly.... If there's another larger model with more stuff it might make sense to just use that as the base (instead of hacking up a Swisschamp which is my original idea).

[GigaHz]

Trail Guides can be found cheap sometimes.

[Syph007]

Bleh, why can I never find posts with clear info like this when I search.. :/ Thanks for that link though.

So I guess the next question then is, are there any 91mm besides the Compact that have a combotool? Throwing $31 at a knife just for one tool is silly.... If there's another larger model with more stuff it might make sense to just use that as the base (instead of hacking up a Swisschamp which is my original idea).

Nope just the Vic compact.  The next one that has it is the XXLT at lots more $.

The combo on the 111mm models (Hunter, Equestrian and workchamp XL) that have it are also the same size, but I doubt those would be cheaper than the Compact.

[AimlessWanderer]

Bleh, why can I never find posts with clear info like this when I search.. :/ Thanks for that link though.

So I guess the next question then is, are there any 91mm besides the Compact that have a combotool? Throwing $31 at a knife just for one tool is silly.... If there's another larger model with more stuff it might make sense to just use that as the base (instead of hacking up a Swisschamp which is my original idea).

Nope just the Vic compact.  The next one that has it is the XXLT at lots more $.

The combo on the 111mm models (Hunter, Equestrian and workchamp XL) that have it are also the same size, but I doubt those would be cheaper than the Compact.

The 91mm DofE has one too. Depends on your location as to how available these would be for you

[Syph007]

Bleh, why can I never find posts with clear info like this when I search.. :/ Thanks for that link though.

So I guess the next question then is, are there any 91mm besides the Compact that have a combotool? Throwing $31 at a knife just for one tool is silly.... If there's another larger model with more stuff it might make sense to just use that as the base (instead of hacking up a Swisschamp which is my original idea).

Nope just the Vic compact.  The next one that has it is the XXLT at lots more $.

The combo on the 111mm models (Hunter, Equestrian and workchamp XL) that have it are also the same size, but I doubt those would be cheaper than the Compact.

The 91mm DofE has one too. Depends on your location as to how available these would be for you

Oh right I always forget that one. 

[Quartz]

The next one that has it is the XXLT at lots more $.

*sigh*. You know, I swore that one of the huge SwissChamps had a combo tool, but when I searched I didn't see it. It's listed as "combination tool". I did a find for 'combo'. I swear I can't search anymore....

Good call on the 111mm combos though, although you're right that the price isn't any better. Chopping up the larger Workchamp might be an option though, maybe.

[Quartz]

Erk, DofE is $61 on amazon compared to $31 for a compact. Oh well.

[Quartz]

Trail Guides can be found cheap sometimes.

mmmm.... trying to find specific discontinued Vics on Ebay/etc has never turned out well for me, but I'll keep my eye open, thanks.

[GigaHz]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3562-3-Victorinox-Swiss-Army-Brand-Pocket-Knives-/390926851128?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item5b050e5c38

[Quartz]

Oh, I totally forgot about the Yeoman. I feel like people would murder me if I cut one of those up though

[enki_ck]

I think dash4it from uk has the DOE at resonable prices, not like the madness last year but still ok. And they ship internationally.

[GigaHz]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-Army-Switzerland-3-5-8-Marlboro-Tobacco-Advertising-Knife-MIB-/141400448961?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ec1f9fc1

[enki_ck]

Here's the link.

http://dash4it.co.uk/vict...dinburgh-pocket-tool.html

We cleaned them dry last year. Still visit them occasionally hoping for a sale like that one.

[neillcurrie]

I built a Yeoman recently, using parts from old 91mm's and a combo tool from an 84mm. I assembled it into brass scales that I made exactly the same size and shape as standard Vic 91mm scales.

The hole in the combo tool needs to be opened up to 2.5mm as noted, and I found that the tool sat low enough in the knife to be annoying. I tried tweaking the end of the knife spring to make it sit higher, and despite this it still sat lower than I like. I didn't feel comfortable tweaking the spring any more than I already had, so I "compromised" by dremeling a small nail nick relief into the outside brass scale.

This is almost invisible, and works OK, well enough at least. But I was much more of a hassle than I originally thought it would be.

[Quartz]

Here's the link.

Thanks, but I'm in the US, so GBP->USD conversion plus shipping is still way more than just buying a Compact locally.

[Quartz]

This is almost invisible, and works OK, well enough at least. But I was much more of a hassle than I originally thought it would be.

Yeah, I had a feeling it wasn't going to quite work out smoothly, that's why I wanted to double check. I don't have the tools to do much in the way of serious modding, so if it's not a drop-in replacement it's kind of a non-starter.

EDIT: should read: if it's not something I can do with a Dremel and a desk it's kind of a non starter

[J Mackrel Jones]

I think the Waiter has the combi-tool.  Maybe the Bartender too.  SAKwiki has the Waiter as 84mm and the Waiter Plus as 91mm.
The Vic combination tool has been of two types:  the pointed end and the sort of rounded end.
The pointy one is a better improvised phillips driver.  Both will cut cans.
Then there's the weird Wenger combi-tool.  Any chance this will go into a Vic mod?

[Quartz]

I know about the Waiter plus, but they seem rare. I've searched a few times but can't find anyone selling them either new or used.

I don't actually care about the can/bottle feature, I just need a flathead screwdriver and general prybar thing.

And yes, it'll be a custom 91mm Vic.

[AimlessWanderer]

I know about the Waiter plus, but they seem rare. I've searched a few times but can't find anyone selling them either new or used.

I don't actually care about the can/bottle feature, I just need a flathead screwdriver and general prybar thing.

And yes, it'll be a custom 91mm Vic.

Be aware the combo tool is notably thinner metal than the standard caplifter/driver 

[Syph007]

I would definitely not recommend the combo for even light prying.  It bends VERY easily.  Id have no problem using the normal bottle opener to say pry open a can of paint.  The combo tool though I bet would bend.  Its much thinner and really I'd only recommend them for actual can and bottle opening.  Its much less robust as a general tool.  Even as a screwdriver the tip will twist if a screw is stuck at all.

[jerseydevil]

^^ Absolutely.  Using the bottle opener as a pry bar and paint can opener is something I do multiple times a day at the store.  The combo tool will not handle such use, as my first Bantam found out the hard way.  I will only carry SAKs with a dedicated opener layer at work, and it's also a big reason why I prefer the Explorer to the Yeoman.

[Quartz]

Ugh. I knew that the combo was thinner and I wouldn't be able to do as much with it, but I didn't think it was quite that bad. The 84mm combo I have loose in my drawer didn't look quite that flimsy (although it's hard to get a good feel for a loose part when you have no leverage).

Is the combo really not even strong enough open a can of paint?

[Syph007]

Ugh. I knew that the combo was thinner and I wouldn't be able to do as much with it, but I didn't think it was quite that bad. The 84mm combo I have loose in my drawer didn't look quite that flimsy (although it's hard to get a good feel for a loose part when you have no leverage).

Is the combo really not even strong enough open a can of paint?

It would bend for sure.

To give you an idea how easily bent they are.  When I build single layer knife and combo tool mods. I usually need to tweak the bend in the blade and combo a degree or two to have them fit.  To bend the blade I clamp the pivot end and hit with a mallot.  To bend the combo, I clamp the pivot end and push with my thumb a bit and it bends super easy.  Its not a prying tool.