Why no Yeoman?

[HarleyXJGuy]

Was rooting around on SAKWiki and came across something called a yeoman.

Dang what a nice set of tools. 

Why did they discontinue this beauty?

[charlie fox]

I had and carried one for a few years. I found it looked good, but never really fit the bill for me.

[Syph007]

My theory... so when people realize they want one, they have to buy a compact AND an explorer to then have the parts needed to make a yeoman!

[HarleyXJGuy]

Wow what are the odds.

I was about to post "Guess I will have to have Syph make me a Alox version". Like I got the warning when i went to post that someone had posted.

 

[jazzbass]

They are, IMO, the perfect EDC and my favorite "modern" SAK. I carry a version with Timekeepers scales I made a while ago, and my wife always has her Sapphire scaled Yeoman with her. SwissBianco has special runs of them made pretty regularly, and you see them pop up used on eBay about once a month. But they are pretty easy to mod from an Explorer and Compact.

Why don't they sell them anymore? Lots of guys here talk about how Victorinox should make them again, they'd sell tons. I disagree. If there's anything Victorinox knows, it's the worldwide SAK market. There's a reason they stopped making them in the late 90s, and it wasn't because people were buying so many of them they couldn't make them fast enough.

Here's my theory - I think there are two reasons why they don't sell. First, most non-SAK people (i.e. 99.9% of the general population) simply don't get the appeal. SAKs are supposed to have LOTS of tool, not less tools. You put an Explorer and a Yeoman side by side and almost everyone will pick the Explorer. It has more! SAKs are supposed to have lots of things! Can openers and bottle openers and TWO blades! The Explorer rules, the Yeoman drools. However, Once you explain to people why the Yeoman is so much better, they almost always say "oh yeah, I didn't think of it that way. The Yeoman IS better". However, you can't have this individual conversation with every SAK buyer out there before they purchase.

Second, price. For some reason Victorinox always prices combo-tool knives higher than regular knives. Maybe its the plus scales (almost every combo tool knife comes with plus scales), the fancy file on the hook, I don't know. But you put a $40 Yeoman next to a $28 Explorer and people think "I get MORE for $12 less! Easy decision!"

So you end up with great knives like the Scientist and Yeoman sitting on shelves, unsold. Sad really. But if there was a big market for these knives, they'd make them. You don't stay in business for 125+ years by not knowing your market.

[SAK Guy]

Very well reasoned JB!

[rickinFL]

Love my yeoman.

[powernoodle]

Why did they discontinue this beauty?

Victorinox exists for the purpose of generating revenue for its shareholders, so everything it does is ultimately a market strategery.  I suspect that the Yeoman was discontinued so consumers would keep buying other models in a vain attempt to find the perfect one.  For my part, the Yeoman almost the perfect SAK.  It has crucial elements like scissors and an inline phillips, without the wasted space of the cork screw (my opinion) and the redundant second blade.  It maxes out on the utility to size ratio.


Swissbianco Yeoman Plus.

[HarleyXJGuy]

You don't stay in business for 125+ years by not knowing your market.

My response to this is Apple. 

Great response though. Still going to need me one.

Is the holidays over yet? I need me a Syph Alox or four.

[Zed]

Ive always wanted a yeoman but stick with my explorer as not massively different, plus there so hard to find and expensive 

[HarleyXJGuy]

Ive always wanted a yeoman but stick with my explorer as not massively different, plus there so hard to find and expensive 

Yeah it is just one more layer and no inline phillips right?

[ducttapetech]

It has an inline phillips

[HarleyXJGuy]

Yep spoke to soon i guess.

So one more layer and it has the back tools. Not hating the Explorer but I am thinking a custom built Yeoman might be my perfect minimal SAK.

Not to mention I could get the beauty, light weight and ease of maintenance of an Alox at the same time.

[jazzbass]

You don't stay in business for 125+ years by not knowing your market.

My response to this is Apple. 

   Not sure I get the point, sorry.

[Zed]

I would miss the tin opener as use it more than the caplifter,this is why i mainly carry my swisschamp 

[HarleyXJGuy]

You don't stay in business for 125+ years by not knowing your market.

My response to this is Apple. 

   Not sure I get the point, sorry.

Its cool. In another thread here we was making fun of Apple. Guess it spilled over to this one.

Had a close call a few seconds ago. Checked FelineVets EDC store for a Yeoman. Luckily for my wallet he did not have any.

I would miss the tin opener as use it more than the caplifter,this is why i mainly carry my swisschamp 

The tool on the Yeoman is a combo tool that opens cans and bottles. 

Don't mean I don't want to buy a SC though. Sigh.

[jerseydevil]

Honestly I prefer the Explorer.  Why?  One of the most important uses my SAKs have is light prying and opening paint cans using the flat driver/bottle opener.  The combo tool isn't thick enough for this.  I've tried it several times with different knives including a Yeoman, and I've stopped because each time I was afraid I was going to break the Combo tool!    I have no problem pocket carrying a larger SAK, my Swisschamp sees plenty of pocket time, attached to a belt hanger to keep it vertical.  Never had an issue.

[zoidberg]

I've been thinking about making a Yeoman recently.
I even found somewhere selling a Waiter for a reasonable price.
Then I read this post.

The combo tool on the Yeoman is bad. It does everything...POORLY. I tried it as a bottle opener one time, and the sharpish tip punctured into a Coke bottle cap. Fail. I tried it as a screwdriver a few times, but it is usually too small for a regular size screw, and it closes up on me easily. Fail. Too big for a small screw, fail again. It just fails at EVERYTHING.

Now I'm not too sure.
Do I keep the opener layer and swap the mag glass for an electricians blade.
Or keep the mag glass and go four layers with electricians blade and awl.
Ditch the blade and keep it three layers.
So many options.

[Syph007]

Well see that's the thing.  On paper the combo tools is great, in pratice I personally dont like it.  The combo tool does not replace a dedicated opener layer.  The versatility of the bottle opener / can opener are part of what makes a SAK a SAK to me.  The combo tool is much thinner and much more flimsy.  Its ok as a can opener, but aweful as a pry tool, bottle opener, screwdriver. 

Now that being said, I would still prefer an explorer without the mag glass.  If I could do the phillips across from both openers trick on a 91mm SAK that is a big winner to me.

1.  small blade / main blade
2.  scissors
3.  phillips / can opener / bottle opener

The closest stock model to ideal to me is a super tinker.  That is 3 layers of awesome tool right there.  Or deluxe tinker if you are ok with 4 layers.

[Corwyn]

(Image removed from quote.)

Love my yeoman.

Prettiest sak I've ever seen... 

[zoidberg]

If I could do the phillips across from both openers trick on a 91mm SAK that is a big winner to me.

1.  small blade / main blade
2.  scissors
3.  phillips / can opener / bottle opener

I was just looking at pics of your alox one.
How much of a mission is it to do on a 91mm?
I'm thinking of...

1. awl / electricians blade
2. scissors
3. phillips / bottle opener / can opener

Thoughts?

[eddie1115]

Well see that's the thing.  On paper the combo tools is great, in pratice I personally dont like it.  The combo tool does not replace a dedicated opener layer.  The versatility of the bottle opener / can opener are part of what makes a SAK a SAK to me.  The combo tool is much thinner and much more flimsy.  Its ok as a can opener, but aweful as a pry tool, bottle opener, screwdriver. 

Now that being said, I would still prefer an explorer without the mag glass.  If I could do the phillips across from both openers trick on a 91mm SAK that is a big winner to me.

1.  small blade / main blade
2.  scissors
3.  phillips / can opener / bottle opener

The closest stock model to ideal to me is a super tinker.  That is 3 layers of awesome tool right there.  Or deluxe tinker if you are ok with 4 layers.

I started to write a response, then Syph said everything I was about to, even mentioning his Alox mod of the phillips across from the openers (which I need to get one of these days )  My usual carry is a Super Tinker, occasionally an Explorer if I can deal with carrying an extra layer.

I do still miss the Yeoman though (traded it away), even if only for light duty use.  Might have to make up another one someday.

[Syph007]

If I could do the phillips across from both openers trick on a 91mm SAK that is a big winner to me.

1.  small blade / main blade
2.  scissors
3.  phillips / can opener / bottle opener

I was just looking at pics of your alox one.
How much of a mission is it to do on a 91mm?
I'm thinking of...

1. awl / electricians blade
2. scissors
3. phillips / bottle opener / can opener

Thoughts?

I tried to do it o  a 91 and its really not possible.  91s are not symmetrical so the springs cant be flipped around. Symmetry is part of what makes the 93 a perfect platform.

[AimlessWanderer]

The combo tool is a weak screwdriver and should not be considered as a pry tool. That said, I have found it a very capable cap lifter and can opener. So from that angle, you need to consider how much you do of what activity.

For example, if you need a phillips driver but don't encounter stubborn screws, a back spring phillips would be fine. Inline phillips wins when a little more oomph is required. Same with the combo tool vs cap lifter. If flat head drivers or prying is not high on your priority list, then a combo tool may be just the ticket.

You could of course carry a little one piece tool on your keys to take care of the rogue flat driving or prying tasks that arise. I nearly always pair my SAK with a pliers tool to compensate for the limitations of the SAK pliers, so between the two tools, I can handle most things I'll encounter. If the SAK doesn't have something such as scissors, phillips, robust flat driver, I'll be sure that the tool it's paired with can cover any shortcomings

[Breezy12]

Well see that's the thing.  On paper the combo tools is great, in pratice I personally dont like it.  The combo tool does not replace a dedicated opener layer.  The versatility of the bottle opener / can opener are part of what makes a SAK a SAK to me.  The combo tool is much thinner and much more flimsy.  Its ok as a can opener, but aweful as a pry tool, bottle opener, screwdriver. 

Now that being said, I would still prefer an explorer without the mag glass.  If I could do the phillips across from both openers trick on a 91mm SAK that is a big winner to me.

1.  small blade / main blade
2.  scissors
3.  phillips / can opener / bottle opener

The closest stock model to ideal to me is a super tinker.  That is 3 layers of awesome tool right there.  Or deluxe tinker if you are ok with 4 layers.

I started to write a response, then Syph said everything I was about to, even mentioning his Alox mod of the phillips across from the openers (which I need to get one of these days )  My usual carry is a Super Tinker, occasionally an Explorer if I can deal with carrying an extra layer.

I do still miss the Yeoman though (traded it away), even if only for light duty use.  Might have to make up another one someday.

what kind of bottles are you guys trying to open with the combo tool?? I agree that it doesn't stand up to prybar-like use. I haven't tried opening a can with it, but I'm guessing it won't do too well. But I've been carrying a Yeoman around the house lately (thanks eddie!), and the combo tool opens my evening beverages without any problems at all...

[rickinFL]

(Image removed from quote.)

Love my yeoman.

Prettiest sak I've ever seen... 

Thank you.  Probably my most expensive build to date.

Combo tool as can opener works very well.  I use one almost 3 times a week for canned tuna and it works exactly as it should.  The yeoman is without a doubt the best tool layout for urban environment.

[mrog]

Gotta have Alox. Gotta have a symmetric 3 layers so I can have a pocket clip. Gotta have pliers! 3 layers and pliers means I can't have both openers. I have a Stanley pocket screwdriver at home, in my car, at work, and in my bag to cover extra Phillips and flathead needs.

A custom Alox SAK would be my pocket knife + extra. Not my entire toolbox. I love the small Vic pliers. They're like a small pair of metal fingers in my pocket. I think people over look the pliers because they have to in order to get the other tools on their SAK and still have it be comfortable in the pocket. I have to have the slimness of Alox and screwed on pocket clip. The plastic scales + suspension clip is too long and thick.

Combo tool does a little bit of scraping/poking/awl-ing, a little bit of Phillips, a little bit of flat heads, a little bit of prying, and bottles & cans. For me, it's not combo vs seperate openers, it's combo vs awl. I still choose combo though.


Clip >
-------------------------
Scissors >
Combo tool > < Blade
Pliers >
-------------------------


So my point is I like Pliers over 3D Philips & mag glass.
Or you can just SAK up and carry a Spirit X

[eddie1115]

Well see that's the thing.  On paper the combo tools is great, in pratice I personally dont like it.  The combo tool does not replace a dedicated opener layer.  The versatility of the bottle opener / can opener are part of what makes a SAK a SAK to me.  The combo tool is much thinner and much more flimsy.  Its ok as a can opener, but aweful as a pry tool, bottle opener, screwdriver. 

Now that being said, I would still prefer an explorer without the mag glass.  If I could do the phillips across from both openers trick on a 91mm SAK that is a big winner to me.

1.  small blade / main blade
2.  scissors
3.  phillips / can opener / bottle opener

The closest stock model to ideal to me is a super tinker.  That is 3 layers of awesome tool right there.  Or deluxe tinker if you are ok with 4 layers.

I started to write a response, then Syph said everything I was about to, even mentioning his Alox mod of the phillips across from the openers (which I need to get one of these days )  My usual carry is a Super Tinker, occasionally an Explorer if I can deal with carrying an extra layer.

I do still miss the Yeoman though (traded it away), even if only for light duty use.  Might have to make up another one someday.

what kind of bottles are you guys trying to open with the combo tool?? I agree that it doesn't stand up to prybar-like use. I haven't tried opening a can with it, but I'm guessing it won't do too well. But I've been carrying a Yeoman around the house lately (thanks eddie!), and the combo tool opens my evening beverages without any problems at all...

Glad it's getting put to work    As a cap lifter, the combo tool is fine.  As a screwdriver, I had some concern about using too much torque (especially at the 90-degree position).  As a prying tool, that's where it bent.  I realize it's not sold as a pry tool or anything, but I've often used the standard cap lifter as a pry tool and it does fine.  So that's my internal debate, give up a little sturdiness or give up the slim 3 layers...

[Syph007]

Gotta have Alox. Gotta have a symmetric 3 layers so I can have a pocket clip. Gotta have pliers! 3 layers and pliers means I can't have both openers. I have a Stanley pocket screwdriver at home, in my car, at work, and in my bag to cover extra Phillips and flathead needs.

A custom Alox SAK would be my pocket knife + extra. Not my entire toolbox. I love the small Vic pliers. They're like a small pair of metal fingers in my pocket. I think people over look the pliers because they have to in order to get the other tools on their SAK and still have it be comfortable in the pocket. I have to have the slimness of Alox and screwed on pocket clip. The plastic scales + suspension clip is too long and thick.

Combo tool does a little bit of scraping/poking/awl-ing, a little bit of Phillips, a little bit of flat heads, a little bit of prying, and bottles & cans. For me, it's not combo vs seperate openers, it's combo vs awl. I still choose combo though.


Clip >
-------------------------
Scissors >
Combo tool > < Blade
Pliers >
-------------------------


So my point is I like Pliers over 3D Philips & mag glass.
Or you can just SAK up and carry a Spirit X

I've done combo/blade/pliers/scissors a couple times on alox.  It is a nice slim package if you need pliers.   

[Caranthanus]

Love my yeoman. Combo tool as can opener works very well.

As mrog already said:

Combo tool does a little bit of scraping/poking/awl-ing, a little bit of Phillips, a little bit of flat heads, a little bit of prying, and bottles ...

but indeed is a great can opener

So, of course, as a screwdriver/prybar the combo tool can't compete with "openers" (in prying, scraping, orange peeling , large SD, small SD ...), but that is the "no-openers tax" one have to deal with