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silly question, but........ 1979

No Life Club Posts: 2,830
silly question, but........
« on: October 05, 2014, 05:55:48 PM »
Does anyone here still use film??

Although I have a few digital compacts I don't have a digital SLR. I'm really not interested in going down that route again. However, I've been invited by a work colleague to go along with him and his pals shooting "urbex" URBan EXploration basically old abandoned factories, hospitals, swimming pools etc etc - Fascinating subject!!

The idea really appeals,  and I've still got tons of the old EOS system. But its all 35mm. I really don't know if I'm just wasting my time considering it, but I don't want the expense of going into digital. The costs would simply be astronomical. Unless I bought a full frame DSLR (£££'s :ahhh) all my lenses would give differing focal lengths, my extensive range of canon flash guns wouldn't work either on E-TTL or TTL and to top it all my ancient laptop (2003 model)  would need to be replaced too as its just plain slow, we never use it unless we have to. I'm just not prepared to even think about spending that kind of money.....besides "she" would go (understandably) completely nuts!!! :twak: :twak: :twak:

My idea was to shoot slide film (velvia) then have it processed and put onto CD. There is a professional photographic laboratory near where I work (actually its the other side of the boundary fence) so processing would be easy. Costs...depending on exposure £8-£12, transferred to CD adds another £6. I'm tempted to have a go.

Has anybody recently shot a roll of film?? If so what was your initial reaction after all these years of being bombarded by highly saturated vivid digital images ??
Was it.....

  "Oh WOW!!  :drool:

Or 
  "Oh smurf  :facepalm:"


Just copied a few sample pics off the web.. :whistle:
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 07:15:43 PM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
No Life Club Posts: 2,261 This isn't me, but I'm just as dysfunctional
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2014, 07:27:01 PM »
I made the switch to digital in 1997 and haven't shot film since then.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,748
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2014, 07:38:02 PM »
I have shot some film in the last few years. I actually think I have some 35mm b&w film laying about.
Its a smurf to get it developed here if you dont do it yourself.(wich I dont)  And after having done DSLR for many years its really difficult not to just take a ton of pics, not thinking of film cost. 36 pics disapears fast!

Have you thought about getting a used DSLR?
Cannon is a bit annying though, as most of the older lenses just wont work on the new cameras. Nikon is better that way.

 


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-Knívleysur maður er lívleysur maður.
 "A Knifeless man is a lifeless man" old Faroese proverb.
No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2014, 07:39:25 PM »
I made the switch to digital in 1997 and haven't shot film since then.

In 97' I was working as a press photographer with film!! As were most other staff photographers. Digital really was in its infancy back then, it was awful!!
I haven't shot film for years probably since 97'  :facepalm:
I really can't decide, digital is just soooo easy but the costs..... :ahhh
A 'used' Canon 5d is £££'s and then the flash guns, powerful PC, spare batteries etc etc.
I'm just not even going to contemplate it.

I did consider a hybrid, but the sensors are so small.
I'm really in a quandary with this as I would like to have a go at urbex but cannot justify the enormous sums of money involved for what could be a very short pastime!
 
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 08:21:08 PM by tosh »

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Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2014, 07:43:59 PM »
Getting a non full frame DSLR will mean that the zoom of the lens will be different, but since you are looking through the lens you will still be shooting what you see.

As for the vivid images a modern DSLR will give you as plain an image as you want. It is up to you to boost it if you want to.

Also when they make your film into a CD they basically scan/digitally photograph your film anyway, so you are not really looking at the original film picture.

If you still want to shoot film regularly then you may want to invest in a film scanner. I got one and scanned all my films a few years ago.

I have not shot film in years as I went from non zoom Canons (I had a few) to a DSLR thus skipping the whole EOS range.

Never felt the desire or the need to shoot film again.

Most lower end DSLRs from canon, since you have EOS lenses, will be cheap and still do most of what you need.

As for the flash guns they will work, though you will lose some functions. I have used older flash guns on DSLRs and the results were ok.

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Al : "Women!"

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No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2014, 08:09:57 PM »
Does anyone know what the formula is for estimating the "new" focal length of lenses that were designed for use with 35mm cameras when used on digital cameras. I'm guessing it depends on sensor size??

But let's assume I stuck with canon non full frame sensor, is the formula something like focal length x  1.4??

Obviously urbex usually calls for wide angle, my widest canon being my 24mm (not counting the cheap cosina 18-35 I was given by an old friend years ago - never tried it so can't comment on quality)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 08:14:36 PM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,458 Gone

dks cy

********* *
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2014, 08:19:51 PM »
yes

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Al : "Women!"

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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,081 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2014, 08:58:45 PM »
URBEX eh? Never fancied trespassing and dodging smackheads and their disease ridden detritus as a hobby myself  :rofl: I must admit though, some of the work posted on the net is amazing  :tu:

I tried to part-ex the body of my 500N to a DSLR body but keep my Sigma 28-200 and teleconverters. I went into Harrisons on London Road (they've now moved to the right hand side heading out of town), and they let me try my lenses on a EOS 350D. No luck. Chips weren't compatible. I ended up buying a preloved 350D complete with battery, charger, memory card, a "home studio" (effectively a light box and couple of lamps), and a brand new Tamron 18-200 (effectively 25-260ish in old numbers) all for less than the 500N cost me for body only all those years ago. I've probably snapped enough pics in the last 18 months to say I'd have spent that on film an developing by now. It's far from professional kit, but perfectly adequate for a numpty like me

Well worth popping into Harrisons occasionally and keeping tabs on what they've got in the second hand cabinets (right hand side when you go in the shop - they've also got a car park round the back which makes life MUCH easier round there)



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2014, 09:32:12 PM »
Cheers Al

Harrison's Eh!

Small world init' - I practically lived in Harrisons years ago. The amount of money they had off me back them must be bordering on obscene.
I spent £1000's back then - I actually remember walking out with over £5k worth of kit in 97 in one day!! (insurance payout). A few years later when digital began to get a foothold I realised my EOS system would be worth peanuts so exchanged the lot for a Leica m6 with a couple of lenses plus a pair of Trinovids  :drool:. Then went off and picked up a dirt cheap used EOS kit and carried on.

But the EOS Kit I had back then was amazing.. :dd: :dd: :dd:

Eos1n
17-35 2.8L
35-350L
85mm f1.2L
200 2.8L
540EZ
50mm 1.4

That 35-350L was a dream, the rear focusing USM meant it was lightening fast, hooked up to the EOS1n fitted with VG pack and 540EZ Gun it was an amazing combo. I had to do a shoot "A Day In The Life Of A Hill Farmer" up in the North Yorkshire moors. The farmer took me out in his landrover to find the sheep - I honestly thought that landrover was going to topple over!! The day was typical of the yorkshire moors...dull, foggy and down right miserable. We suddenly spotted a ewe with her new born lamb as we were climbing up a very steep gradient in the landrover, the farmer didn't want to stop so I shot out of the open window, the lens was racked all the way out to 350mm and no IS but the flash gun worked miracles - the image was actually used for the front page on the special sunday supplement - great memories!

Prior to all that I'd spent 5-6yrs at college working all my way through, all my spare cash was spent at Harrison's buying film, chemicals, paper not to mention cameras, lenses, flash guns etc etc!

It depresses me to think too much about it - lol

Hence buying more kit isn't too appealing!!  :facepalm:



« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 12:01:36 AM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,202 Armed with camera and not afraid to use it.
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2014, 10:18:07 PM »
Were those EOS autofocus lenses? OMG...you could have kept your lenses and bought a cheap DSLR and be done with it. Canon EOS lenses are all backwards compatible to any EOS system camera. The only thing you may have to upgrade would have been the flash...but it would have still worked with a digital camera.  :facepalm:

I haven't shot film since the late 90s personally. 2005 if you count the last time I worked with film teaching a class of photography at the High School level.

EDIT: Cropping factor is dependent on the sensor size. My EOS 1D Mark IIN has a cropping factor of 1.3X. Most Canon DSLRs have a crop factor of 1.6X. You just multiply your lenses focal length by 1.3X. The nice thing about crop factors, the outside of the lens usually won't make it in the photo...meaning your shooting mostly through the sweet spot of your lens optics. Another plus, your telephoto lenses give you a little more reach...perfect for wildlife. On the downside, your wide angle lenses aren't so wide angle anymore...but these days, they make ultra wide angle lenses to combat that deficiency...but at the expense of yet another lens to buy.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 10:26:20 PM by Chako »

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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,081 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2014, 10:29:15 PM »
Were those EOS autofocus lenses? OMG...you could have kept your lenses and bought a cheap DSLR and be done with it. Canon EOS lenses are all backwards compatible to any EOS system camera. The only thing you may have to upgrade would have been the flash...but it would have still worked with a digital camera.  :facepalm:

I haven't shot film since the late 90s personally. 2005 if you count the last time I worked with film teaching a class of photography at the High School level.



Afraid not Dan. None of my EOS 500N compatibles are functional on my EOS 350D, which was the oldest body they had in the shop. I still have the 500N and all the bits that I had with it, but the AF and iris didn't function on the old Sigma lens when put on the 350D. I have yet to try my old teleconverters on the Tamron I got with the DSLR



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2014, 10:32:05 PM »
Were those EOS autofocus lenses? OMG...you could have kept your lenses and bought a cheap DSLR and be done with it. Canon EOS lenses are all backwards compatible to any EOS system camera. The only thing you may have to upgrade would have been the flash...but it would have still worked with a digital camera.  :facepalm:

I haven't shot film since the late 90s personally. 2005 if you count the last time I worked with film teaching a class of photography at the High School level.

They were Dan  :facepalm:

TBH I wanted out, the money was rubbish, the stress was incredible - imagine the deadline for images was 3pm, you've got staff leaving spaces  in the page layout ready for your images and you're stuck in traffic 20 miles away and remember it's the wet process too!! Most of the time it was very dull and boring (crossword competition winner) or you were tearing your hair out with stress. The Kit was far too expensive to just sit around gathering dust and prices were starting to drop... The 17-35mm 2.8L was £1750.00 I think :think: when I got it, a year later it could be had for just over a grand...New!!
Everyone was saying it would become worthless with all the new technology, canon then released an IS version of the 35-350L (28-300L IS) which meant everyone then wanted that one. I couldn't afford to see it just depreciate at the rate it was, fantastic as it was.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 11:46:49 PM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,081 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2014, 10:34:00 PM »
Sorry, I didn't see tosh's edit .... I thought you were talking about my kit  :salute:



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,202 Armed with camera and not afraid to use it.
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2014, 03:05:32 AM »
Sorry about that. Yeah, non Canon lenses made by Tamron, Tokina, and Sigma often do need a chip replacement depending on the age of the lens and the newness of the camera. Canon still tries to stick it to third party lens makers from time to time...you know, to entice you to buy Canon branded lenses. Quite often, you can upgrade your third party lenses at a cost to work with newer cameras. Not sure  how much the service is, but it does exist.

Well Tosh, i don't know what to say to that. I would have kept the lenses...you were set for life with those L lenses. Mind you, I never look at lenses as value depreciated. I look at lens for the capabilities they bring to the table, now and 20 years in the future lol.

So what exactly do you have right now in terms of camera gear?


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No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2014, 07:27:40 AM »
Not much compared to what I used to have.

Leica M6 Panda
Summicron 35mm f2 ASPH
Tele Elmarit M. 90mm F2.8

Rolleiflex 2.8F Planar

Olympus OM1's x5
21mm
24mm
28mm
35mm
40mm
50mm x4
100mm
135mm
75-150mm
65-200mm
(All zuikos)
T32 Flash gun
Varimagnifier

EOS30 + VG Grip
EOS300 + VG Grip
EF 24mm F2.8
EF 50mm F1.8
EF 28-105
EF 70-210
(Cosina 18-35 :whistle: )
300 EZ x2
420 EZ
Canon Ringflash

Plus a dozen or so of very old antique cameras
Metz 45 CT1 Hammerhead
3 head studio flash kit complete with soft boxes, snoots, barn doors, parabolics.
Light meter (flash too)


Digital

Sony DSC T30 x 2
Panasonic Lumix LX5

Lots of tripods
Mainly manfrotto, Slik
Numerous specialised clamps, heads etc etc

And that's basically it.
I had a lot of medium format gear but that's gone.

I don't really miss what I sold. The important bit is the image, how you get it isn't down to camera gear as I'm sure you know.
Some of the most inspiring images I've ever seen were taken with gear most serious amateurs would scoff at Zenith, Prakticas etc. when used within their limits the results can be mind blowing. It's a little harder work but excellent results are obtainable. Ive seen horrendous pictures taken with high end gear, simply because the user assumed he had the best equipment so his pictures would be the best.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 08:38:43 AM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,202 Armed with camera and not afraid to use it.
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2014, 12:46:59 PM »
Thanks for making me miss my old Olympus OM10 system. With that said, the kid I gave it to was the happiest kid ever at the time.  :D

Ok, this is what I suggest. If you go the Canon route, you should also get a newer flash down the road.

1. Buy yourself a cheap inexpensive DSLR body in the Rebel range, and a single memory card for now. This will allow you to use your Canon lenses. Your 24mm will become a 38.4mm lens once you factor in the 1.6X crop factor. Not that wide, but perfectly serviceable. Never mind the weird focal lengths...once your looking in your camera, you won't be thinking that this lens isn't quite 40mm standard. I have used DSLRs for years and I rarely think in specifics about focal length. I am too busy composing my photos to care about that anymore. You internalize it and  it becomes defacto after a remarkable short time. That and down the road, you can buy yourself a wider lens for your wide angles...such as the very nice Tokina 11-16mm fisheye. I have the original Pentax version. Love the lens.

2. This option requires you shell big bucks for a full framer as you have mentioned above. This will only net you a slightly better quality for landscapes, and of course, it also allows you to retain your traditional focal range...which in my view is irrelevant in the bigger picture. With that said, the larger sensor should give you an edge in low light conditions which is what your planning on doing anyhow right? Not a necessity however...more of a convenience.

3. Search eBay and find yourself a nice cheap used Canon camera. That is how I got my EOS 1D Mark IIN. It is only 8 megapixels, but to be honest, megapixels isn't everything. My 20D was able to do stunning 13x19" prints with it...how much more does one need? Cameras these day aren't happy if you aren't around the 20 megapixel race...but the photos aren't any better than those of 8 megapixel cameras. Yes, you can crop and possibly retain more detail with larger resolution..but they use these things mostly to sell cameras. What I am saying, do not get overly hung up on megapixels, as it is all too easy to do so from the start. I also have a Canon 50D which is 15 megapixels. I tend to like the photos that my 8 megapixel Mark IIN does better.

4. Buy an Olympus digital camera and use an adapter to use all of that Olympus OM glass. Major restrictions in stopping down/up manually, but you could be enjoying all those lenses once again..and we both know just how good that old OM glass is to begin with.

You do need to get into the digital age Tosh. Once you go digital, you won't want to go back to film...although I do miss having a darkroom in the basement...I do not miss having to shoot film and all its limitations. Just think, with digital, it will encourage you to use all that equipment that is now collecting dust. Not only that, you will be enjoying photography again. From your first post, it sound like you haven't shot much of it in ages due to film limitations. The best part of digital, other than the low cost of taking photos, you will be able to take hundred in an outing. you do need a digital body, and if you play your cards right, it shouldn't cost you a fortune either. Used bodies abound online for a very cheap price. Entry into DSLRs that are new keep getting cheaper and cheaper each year.

Edit: Seeing that you were so nice to list me your gear, here is mine. Just scroll down to Chako and laugh (I should be 3rd down from the top). I still have all my old film cameras as well...and thankfully, I kept the lenses. I like using them from time to time on a digital body.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138747&page=48
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 01:03:19 PM by Chako »

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No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2014, 01:29:13 PM »
There is some serious kit there  Chako  :tu:

But I have to say I'm not at all envious, I find it all rather claustrophobic with just what I own. I keep thinking maybe dump the lot except  the Leica and Rolleiflex. And buy something modern and simple and use it till it breaks, then just buy another.

The mere thought of lugging around a camera bag filled with glass and broadcasting to the world ' I'm a photographer ' is a pet hate of mine. Even through my brief spell as a press photographer, my small no brand tatty camera bag could only hold the body, 35-350 and 540. Everything else remained in the boot of my car. That 35-350 was a magnet to thieves, they saw the fat white barrel and knew instantly it was worth taking a risk.

If I do decide to venture into digital it will be after Xmas and if I decide to go for a SLR it will probably be the 1st generation EOS5D, preferably owned by a careful amateur. Or I may take a second look at bridge cameras.

Or I may just see what that lumix LX5 is really capable of. I've already tried it with the Olympus T32 flash gun...... worked well.

I'm loathe to begin another serious hobby my family is my life these days,  I would rather have just a release from home life occasionally.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 02:48:37 PM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,202 Armed with camera and not afraid to use it.
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2014, 08:44:51 PM »
 :salute:

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Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,458 Gone

dks cy

********* *
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2014, 10:06:56 PM »
These pictures were taken today, within 1 hour.

ISO 100, 3200, 6400 and 12800 was used for varius pictures.... (no flash allowed in a aquarium)

Imagine the preparation/pain needed to do this with film.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

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No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2014, 03:07:35 AM »
I agree with you dks  :salute:

Digital is without doubt conveiniant,  like you just easily pointed out, the ability to switch through ISO speeds is such a revelation as is the instant play back what you just shot.

Its incredible, marvellous and hopefully I'll soon be joining your club.
But, that's not to say I disregard film users...its a craft. Most digital enthusiasts can wow you with words like lightroom, HDR but ask them to explain aperture and what can be achieved and they just go blank.

I love digital, its all I've used for the past 8yrs (compacts) the view is akin to watching a slide show...but back projected. There's no way a print can grab your attention like a highly saturated image on a screen.

But I also think film is a craft in itself, the discipline it puts on the user is alien to our modern digital user. Its a totally different hobby these days. Neither one is good or bad, but just different.

Digital is great, it's easy and it's the way I see myself going - but the simplicity of film is also endearing too...especially slide film :drool:

Do you think you could still cut it today?? I'm pretty certain getting  a dozen good pics from a 36 roll of velvia would be hard going for me....how about you?

I may just have one last go for old times sake, anyone care to join?  :pok:


I may skip the EOS and use a fully manual camera instead with a seperate lightmeter.... :ahhh :ahhh  :facepalm:

Then again................ :whistle:
« Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 03:16:16 AM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,458 Gone

dks cy

********* *
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2014, 05:44:02 AM »
My main reason for switching was autofocus as my old canons did not have it and I kept getting blurry photographs. With the DSLR I can still take manual focus pictures (I do that always for the DSLR  video , as the  focusing is not fast for video) but they will be blurred

Shoot RAW with the DSLR and you will be close to the film quality/look.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

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No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2014, 12:23:36 AM »
Well I did it

Went out on Saturday I got myself a mint EOS5D mk1 from Harrison's cameras - was going to use ebay, but Harrison's price was actually better plus they've given me 12 months warranty as well!!

Went out URBEXing on Sunday, not my picture but my idea........ I'm in the well!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 12:26:10 AM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
No Life Club Posts: 2,261 This isn't me, but I'm just as dysfunctional
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2014, 12:47:39 AM »
Very nice picture.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2014, 01:13:12 AM »
Yes, it's pretty much what I envisaged - but it's not quite like the image he text me earlier, so I manipulated it slightly on my iphone  :whistle:

This is what he txt me...

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
No Life Club Posts: 2,261 This isn't me, but I'm just as dysfunctional
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2014, 02:57:22 AM »
Which app did you use?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,458 Gone

dks cy

********* *
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2014, 05:35:33 AM »
For image processing I would suggest Picassa. Free, supported by Google, and does 99% of any image processing and organising you may need. I have Photoshop too but rarely use it.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

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No Life Club Posts: 2,830
Re: silly question, but........
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2014, 08:14:51 AM »
Which app did you use?

No app - after he txt me the image, I obviously saved it then used the phones own setting to convert to black & white.

My laptop is ancient, I'm pretty determined to keep everything in JPEG.  The biggest surprise  since I got the 5D is the bokeh. I've had to accept auto everything for the past 7-8yrs. I'd pretty much forgotten the impact bokeh has on an image. I'm just loving it!

Tho, I'm also determined to keep it all as simple and cheap as possible, but digital is now like that - it's like your limitation is your imagination and not what gear you have.

Can't wait to get back URBEXing again. First outing was a blast - lol I'm 45 and these young lads are 25-30!! Yet the passion for these old buildings is just infectious.
After we did that Manor House we heard rumours of and old disused synagogue, got in through a basement cellar window...lol.

Went upstairs.....WOW!! :o. Amazing!!
Next on the hit list is old Victorian swimming baths....can't wait :D
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 08:53:54 AM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.

 

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