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Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper??? 6907

Hero Member Posts: 935
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2015, 12:22:35 AM »

If we want to post contradictory things from Vic, here's their take on it for the Swisstool model. 
https://www.victorinox.com/medias/sys_master/us/swissarmyknives/Manuals/Swisstool_Manual.pdf



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Not a good example. The Swiss tool already has a dedicated electrician's blade so they couldn't call the notch on the bottle opener and the one on the electrician's blade the same. ;) (No.17-19)

(Image removed from quote.)

Clearly we are leaving the realm of common sense as we try to prove our points.  I forfeit the argument and agree it's a wire stripper...  What would I know about it?


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Hero Member Posts: 935
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2015, 12:28:04 AM »
BTW, that's a wire bender per Victorinox as indicated in their manual



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Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,597 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2015, 12:43:02 AM »
You're taking this WAY to personal. No one is trying to teach you your job or explain to you how to do it and what tools to use. We were simply referencing what it was called in the user manuals. You yourself referenced how the manual called it so why get angry if others use the manuals too?

BTW, that's a wire bender per Victorinox as indicated in their manual



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Yes, I know, that's why I said Numbers 17-19. :salute:

Swisstool manual:
17 - Wire Bender
18 - Wire Stripper
19 - Wire Scraper

If would be silly of them to list wire stripper, wire stripper, wire stripper. ;)

But in the 58mm-111mm manual they call it a wire stripper as no other dedicated parts serve that purpose. That's all we were saying. Is it the best tool for the job? No way. Not even close. But if you have tin wires to strip and need a better grip, then it's better than nothing or your nails. And stranded wires, most solid core wires wouldn't even fit in the 91 mm or 58mm SAK "wire bender" slot.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 12:45:03 AM by enki_ck »

No Life Club Posts: 1,775
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2015, 12:46:25 AM »
 :ahhh :D
In this case common sense is a fallacy, as you both sides are talking about a name, the name that was given by someone (Vic in this specific case) to the tool. A name ("wire stripper"). There is no argument against name. The only valid argument (the proof) concerning that specific name would be the proof that the inventor of that specific name has made a mistake in naming the same tool (once or more times).
Common sense (in the most cases appeals to experience) is telling you, what kind of (let's say similar) tool you're using and how do you (or someone else) name it, but this is in no way connected with the name that someone else (Vic in specific case) has given to his own invention. :o ;)
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,597 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2015, 12:48:09 AM »
Completely agree. :hatsoff:

Now say all that 3x out loud fast. :pok:
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 36,712
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2015, 12:48:26 AM »
Thanks for the pic s2mason.  :cheers:
Full Member Posts: 120
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2015, 01:20:23 AM »
It appears that Vic didn't intend for the notch to have one specific purpose. It would probably make do for any one  of these suggested uses in a pinch. Isn't that we all carry SAK's?
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 3,566
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2015, 01:24:34 AM »
Lively debate indeed - That's what makes a forum interesting :D
And some very good points made by all  :tu:

Ah just seen Badsak's post, whilst typing this - He makes a similar point !!

So name of a tool vs best use of a tool vs how that tool functions compared to dedicated tools for that job/name - are not necessarily aligned  :whistle:

Although somewhat heated at times - This thread kind of summarises what a SAK is all about to me.

You have all these tools in a tiny package that fits in your pocket or bag or on your belt.
Possibly every single tool not the optimal tool for the job for which you are using it (screwdriver, main blade, even the corkscrew etc etc) but most do a pretty dam good job for the purpose for which they are intended, and you can even improvise on a whole pile of other jobs/functions !

Maybe in some cases a tool is way sub optimal, or should even be avoided, but I have not found this to be the case.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,701 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2015, 01:45:30 AM »
Well said. Is it a wire striper, yes. Will it replace proper one for striping wire all day professionally, no. It will work enough to strip a wire, fix my ride and limp it back home. Sure.
These are multitools, not proper tools. These are for when our other tools are not available.

Nate
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 01:49:22 AM by ducttapetech »

Nate

SEND IT!
Hero Member Posts: 935
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2015, 02:21:17 AM »

Thanks for the pic s2mason.  :cheers:



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Hero Member Posts: 935
Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2015, 03:22:07 AM »
You can call a cow a cheese sandwich if you want to.... Ultimately it gets you there


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« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 05:18:11 AM by s2mason »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,076 Cats have pocket knives of their own
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2015, 11:56:10 AM »
I find this notch greatly facilitates getting a better grip on the tool when using it as a screwdriver or for prying :tu:


Omnia vincit amor. Vae victis.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,740 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2015, 12:42:48 PM »
I'd be happy to win either of the three, although I'd prefer the stripper.

Thanks!


284 - pfrsantos


 :D :D :D :D

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

Admin Team Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,034 mmmmm SAKrelicious
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2015, 12:58:29 PM »
I'd be happy to win either of the three, although I'd prefer the stripper.

Thanks!


284 - pfrsantos


 :D :D :D :D

 :rofl:  :tu:

'Use the force Harry' - Gandalf
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,701 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2015, 01:54:58 PM »
LMAO!

Nate


Nate

SEND IT!
Hero Member Posts: 935
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2015, 08:14:31 PM »

I find this notch greatly facilitates getting a better grip on the tool when using it as a screwdriver or for prying :tu:
OK.....I'm slow so I need a little help.  Can you elaborate?


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No Life Club Posts: 1,775
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2015, 01:20:32 AM »
So, let's go slow :D ... straight to the point ;)

There are different things on this world. Ad example: cows, cheese ... people. Then there are things/concepts called "opinions", "facts", "names" ... All this things/concepts are their own beings (i.e. things or concepts/thoughts that exist). From now on (for facilitate) we will use the term "things" for all of those beings (either for things and for concepts/thoughts). So, all the existing things have their own "names". There are different ways to get the name. Inventors give the name to their inventions (things), scientists to their discoveries (things) ...

Parents usually give a name to newborn baby. The boy was born. Mom and Dad (Mary W. Stripper & John W. Stripper) have decided his name will be (is) Jack. From now on his "name" is (in fact) Jack, Jack W. Stripper.
One day Jack came to the forum. One member of the community present it: "This is Jack, Jack W. Stripper".
As we already know (insider information ;)  ) that was the name given to him by his parents (and he (Jack) kept it by now :D ).
Epic fail :o Epic fail, dear Jack :twak:
 :think:
Jack is, of course, confused: "Wtf I'm doing wrong?" :shrug:
Well, dear Jack, you are not doing anything wrong (ok, I mean, khm, well, ah, you're doing wrong too - rumors speak, but that's not the point right now :D ), the point is you're wrong! :ahhh ::)
 :o
Yes, dear Jack, you're wrong, or perhaps you're just not aware of the "opinion" (not the fact about a fact, but a fact about an opinion of the member of the community), that you can NOT be "named" Jack W. Stripper (as your mom and dad named you), but you can eventually be named let's say Jack Plug, Jack Knave, Jack Crevalle, Jack Staff, Jack Crosstree, Jack Truss, Jack Rafter, Jack Rabbit ...
but never ever Jack W. Stripper.
 :think: Why?
Because if we name you Jack W. Stripper, then we would have to call cow a cheese sandwich >:D :whistle:
What's wrong with that? Mc'D for sure do not make sandwiches with freshly ground Scots and other big Mac's?
Nothing, in terms of a name, but such a name can fooled someone, because your "name" is almost identical as the word we use for well known "nouns", well known "verb", and also for well known "adjectives", and that is, you have to understand, a bit misleading and quite confusing.
Btw, what's your job?
"I'm wire stripper."
Jesus :ahhh You're are doomed, I'im telling you! :D
A bit confusing, I know :facepalm: but what can I do about?
 :think:
Change your name to let's say Jack W. Bender :P
Will this solve my problem?
Well, not really, as there is no "your" problem in this case, but will solve the problem that someone has with your "name", confusing it with some of well known "nouns"; and, changing the "name" to Bender will for sure lead someone in US to the perception (this is not known yet in this specific case, but it's well known within already exist cases - so, so called common sense tell us) that will find you as a kind of "alcoholic whoremonger",  and some Brit as "not straight" :o >:D
 :think: I would prefer to keep the name, which my mom and dad gave me, of course, if you guys do not mind, and will try to do my best when called by duty to bending or stripping :D
Yours most sincerely,
Jack Wire Stripper.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 01:23:02 AM by Caranthanus »
Hero Member Posts: 935
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2015, 01:23:48 AM »

So, let's go slow :D ... straight to the point ;)

There are different things on this world. Ad example: cows, cheese ... people. Then there are things/concepts called "opinions", "facts", "names" ... All this things/concepts are their own beings (i.e. things or concepts/thoughts that exist). From now on (for facilitate) we will use the term "things" for all of those beings (either for things and for concepts/thoughts). So, all the existing things have their own "names". There are different ways to get the name. Inventors give the name to their inventions (things), scientists to their discoveries (things) ...
(Image removed from quote.)
Parents usually give a name to newborn baby. The boy was born. Mom and Dad (Mary W. Stripper & John W. Stripper) have decided his name will be (is) Jack. From now on his "name" is (in fact) Jack, Jack W. Stripper.
One day Jack came to the forum. One member of the community present it: "This is Jack, Jack W. Stripper".
As we already know (insider information ;)  ) that was the name given to him by his parents (and he (Jack) kept it by now :D ).
Epic fail :o Epic fail, dear Jack :twak:
 :think:
Jack is, of course, confused: "Wtf I'm doing wrong?" :shrug:
Well, dear Jack, you are not doing anything wrong (ok, I mean, khm, well, ah, you're doing wrong too - rumors speak, but that's not the point right now :D ), the point is you're wrong! :ahhh ::)
 :o
Yes, dear Jack, you're wrong, or perhaps you're just not aware of the "opinion" (not the fact about a fact, but a fact about an opinion of the member of the community), that you can NOT be "named" Jack W. Stripper (as your mom and dad named you), but you can eventually be named let's say Jack Plug, Jack Knave, Jack Crevalle, Jack Staff, Jack Crosstree, Jack Truss, Jack Rafter, Jack Rabbit ...
but never ever Jack W. Stripper.
 :think: Why?
Because if we name you Jack W. Stripper, then we would have to call cow a cheese sandwich >:D :whistle:
What's wrong with that? Mc'D for sure do not make sandwiches with freshly ground Scots and other big Mac's?
Nothing, in terms of a name, but such a name can fooled someone, because your "name" is almost identical as the word we use for well known "nouns", well known "verb", and also for well known "adjectives", and that is, you have to understand, a bit misleading and quite confusing.
Btw, what's your job?
"I'm wire stripper."
Jesus :ahhh You're are doomed, I'im telling you! :D
A bit confusing, I know :facepalm: but what can I do about?
 :think:
Change your name to let's say Jack W. Bender :P
Will this solve my problem?
Well, not really, as there is no "your" problem in this case, but will solve the problem that someone has with your "name", confusing it with some of well known "nouns"; and, changing the "name" to Bender will for sure lead someone in US to the perception (this is not known yet in this specific case, but it's well known within already exist cases - so, so called common sense tell us) that will find you as a kind of "alcoholic whoremonger",  and some Brit as "not straight" :o >:D
 :think: I would prefer to keep the name, which my mom and dad gave me, of course, if you guys do not mind, and will try to do my best when called by duty to bending or stripping :D
Yours most sincerely,
Jack Wire Stripper.

I got nothing


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No Life Club Posts: 1,775
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2015, 01:46:01 AM »
 ::) Of course not, not in 3 minutes. If we subtract the time needed to find the post and the time for reply, that leaves us let's say two minutes. Impossible to get something out, if one is not through and through in.
You have to take your time, it's not that hard.  :D
Hero Member Posts: 935
Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2015, 02:00:12 AM »
You are correct, it wasn't that hard.....It didn't take two minutes to determine that doubling down on stupid didn't merit a rebuttal. 


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« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 02:02:10 AM by s2mason »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,076 Cats have pocket knives of their own
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2015, 03:03:21 AM »

I find this notch greatly facilitates getting a better grip on the tool when using it as a screwdriver or for prying :tu:
OK.....I'm slow so I need a little help.  Can you elaborate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's simple, really.

The notch prevents my thumb / index finger from slipping off the tool's polished tang and provides tactile info on my finger's position and the amount of pressure applied. All this helps me get a firmer grasp on the rest of the SAK.

Once I can hold the SAK confidently in my hand I can also use the lanyard attachment point and the keyring found on the pry tool's and the notch's backspring to exert further pressure and make it harder for the tool to close on me.

Given all this added utility I feel I can say that notch does help me get a better grip on the tool. Remember, in today's Victorinox pocket tools most things have more than just a single use*.

*Edit: For example, you could try to score the cable's insulation by rolling it over the can opener's edge. I haven't tried that but I think it could work.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 03:26:18 AM by firiki »

Omnia vincit amor. Vae victis.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,076 Cats have pocket knives of their own
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2015, 03:07:54 AM »


So name of a tool vs best use of a tool vs how that tool functions compared to dedicated tools for that job/name - are not necessarily aligned  :whistle:



 :rofl: :whistle:


Yours most sincerely,
Jack Wire Stripper.


I fear poor Mr. Jack Wire Stripper may be getting identity issues anytime soon now  :drink:


Omnia vincit amor. Vae victis.
Hero Member Posts: 935
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2015, 03:26:55 AM »


I find this notch greatly facilitates getting a better grip on the tool when using it as a screwdriver or for prying :tu:
OK.....I'm slow so I need a little help.  Can you elaborate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's simple, really.

The notch prevents my thumb / index finger from slipping off the tool's polished tang and provides tactile info on my finger's position and the amount of pressure applied. All this helps me get a firmer grasp on the rest of the SAK.

Once I can hold the SAK confidently in my hand I can also use the lanyard attachment point and the keyring found on the pry tool's and the notch's backspring to exert further pressure and make it harder for the tool to close on me.

Given all this added utility I feel I can say that notch does help me get a better grip on the tool. Remember, in today's Victorinox pocket tools most things have more than just a single use.

Okie Dokie


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,701 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2015, 11:37:36 AM »
So, let's go slow :D ... straight to the point ;)

There are different things on this world. Ad example: cows, cheese ... people. Then there are things/concepts called "opinions", "facts", "names" ... All this things/concepts are their own beings (i.e. things or concepts/thoughts that exist). From now on (for facilitate) we will use the term "things" for all of those beings (either for things and for concepts/thoughts). So, all the existing things have their own "names". There are different ways to get the name. Inventors give the name to their inventions (things), scientists to their discoveries (things) ...
(Image removed from quote.)
Parents usually give a name to newborn baby. The boy was born. Mom and Dad (Mary W. Stripper & John W. Stripper) have decided his name will be (is) Jack. From now on his "name" is (in fact) Jack, Jack W. Stripper.
One day Jack came to the forum. One member of the community present it: "This is Jack, Jack W. Stripper".
As we already know (insider information ;)  ) that was the name given to him by his parents (and he (Jack) kept it by now :D ).
Epic fail :o Epic fail, dear Jack :twak:
 :think:
Jack is, of course, confused: "Wtf I'm doing wrong?" :shrug:
Well, dear Jack, you are not doing anything wrong (ok, I mean, khm, well, ah, you're doing wrong too - rumors speak, but that's not the point right now :D ), the point is you're wrong! :ahhh ::)
 :o
Yes, dear Jack, you're wrong, or perhaps you're just not aware of the "opinion" (not the fact about a fact, but a fact about an opinion of the member of the community), that you can NOT be "named" Jack W. Stripper (as your mom and dad named you), but you can eventually be named let's say Jack Plug, Jack Knave, Jack Crevalle, Jack Staff, Jack Crosstree, Jack Truss, Jack Rafter, Jack Rabbit ...
but never ever Jack W. Stripper.
 :think: Why?
Because if we name you Jack W. Stripper, then we would have to call cow a cheese sandwich >:D :whistle:
What's wrong with that? Mc'D for sure do not make sandwiches with freshly ground Scots and other big Mac's?
Nothing, in terms of a name, but such a name can fooled someone, because your "name" is almost identical as the word we use for well known "nouns", well known "verb", and also for well known "adjectives", and that is, you have to understand, a bit misleading and quite confusing.
Btw, what's your job?
"I'm wire stripper."
Jesus :ahhh You're are doomed, I'im telling you! :D
A bit confusing, I know :facepalm: but what can I do about?
 :think:
Change your name to let's say Jack W. Bender
Will this solve my problem?
Well, not really, as there is no "your" problem in this case, but will solve the problem that someone has with your "name", confusing it with some of well known "nouns"; and, changing the "name" to Bender will for sure lead someone in US to the perception (this is not known yet in this specific case, but it's well known within already exist cases - so, so called common sense tell us) that will find you as a kind of "alcoholic whoremonger",  and some Brit as "not straight" :o >:D
 :think: I would prefer to keep the name, which my mom and dad gave me, of course, if you guys do not mind, and will try to do my best when called by duty to bending or stripping :D
Yours most sincerely,
Jack Wire Stripper.
Brahahahahahahaha!!!

Nate


Nate

SEND IT!
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,740 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Victorinox cap lifter, flat head driver, and wire stripper???
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2015, 11:39:15 AM »
::) Of course not, not in 3 minutes. If we subtract the time needed to find the post and the time for reply, that leaves us let's say two minutes. Impossible to get something out, if one is not through and through in.
You have to take your time, it's not that hard. :D

"That's what."

        - She

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT


 

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