Unusual SAKs

[SAK Guy]

Magnificent!!!!!    Does the Phillips have a can key slot?

[ColoSwiss]

Just got this one in, and I really like this one. I have a thing for old knives, Elinox knives, knives with St Christopher inlays, and knives with special tool combinations. This knife is a combination of all four. If it had a bail and a large awl it'd be damn near perfect.

Depending on your perspective, this knife is either a Motorist variant (i.e. Motorist with saw instead of a file) or a Hiker variant (Hiker with technician screwdriver). This knife was a special run for a paper manufacturer located in Nebikon, Lucerne called Pavag AG. Pavag stands for "Papier Verarbeitungs AG", so the full company name was, curiously, "Papier Verarbeitungs AG AG" (Paper Processors Inc Inc). Go figure. Anyway, the website of the successor company (Pavag Folien AG) states that Pavag was Switzerland's first paper mill, started in 1926. This explains the tree on the logo and the choice of wood saw over metal file.

As this knife was custom order, it probably wouldn't have been given either a model name or number. Since everyone likes to call SAKs by a name, I decided to christen this it the "Papetier", French for "paper-maker" as a nod the origins of the company that originally ordered it. I've also listed it as a "Model 8137a" - in this case I just followed the convention of other special Elinox knives at the time like the Motorist (the 8134ma).

This knife was probably made sometime around 1962-1963 right after the switch to the small, concealed awl. This knife is a typical Elinox line knife from the early 60s - all tools are unpolished except the main blade, which by this time was polished just like Victoria blades were (earlier Elinox main blades from the late 1950s were not polished). The Phillips screwdriver lacks the file that would have been present on Victoria line knives of the time, and the saw is still the older 1950s style with the nail nick in it. These were common on large awl Elinox knives from the late 50s and early 60s, but discontinued right around the time that they switched to the small awl, so it's somewhat unusual to see it on a small awl knife.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Another neat item!   

[jaydar]

Just got this one in, and I really like this one. I have a thing for old knives, Elinox knives, knives with St Christopher inlays, and knives with special tool combinations. This knife is a combination of all four. If it had a bail and a large awl it'd be damn near perfect.

Depending on your perspective, this knife is either a Motorist variant (i.e. Motorist with saw instead of a file) or a Hiker variant (Hiker with technician screwdriver). This knife was a special run for a paper manufacturer located in Nebikon, Lucerne called Pavag AG. Pavag stands for "Papier Verarbeitungs AG", so the full company name was, curiously, "Papier Verarbeitungs AG AG" (Paper Processors Inc Inc). Go figure. Anyway, the website of the successor company (Pavag Folien AG) states that Pavag was Switzerland's first paper mill, started in 1926. This explains the tree on the logo and the choice of wood saw over metal file.

As this knife was custom order, it probably wouldn't have been given either a model name or number. Since everyone likes to call SAKs by a name, I decided to christen this it the "Papetier", French for "paper-maker" as a nod the origins of the company that originally ordered it. I've also listed it as a "Model 8137a" - in this case I just followed the convention of other special Elinox knives at the time like the Motorist (the 8134ma).

This knife was probably made sometime around 1962-1963 right after the switch to the small, concealed awl. This knife is a typical Elinox line knife from the early 60s - all tools are unpolished except the main blade, which by this time was polished just like Victoria blades were (earlier Elinox main blades from the late 1950s were not polished). The Phillips screwdriver lacks the file that would have been present on Victoria line knives of the time, and the saw is still the older 1950s style with the nail nick in it. These were common on large awl Elinox knives from the late 50s and early 60s, but discontinued right around the time that they switched to the small awl, so it's somewhat unusual to see it on a small awl knife.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Very nice

I found an odd one at the weekend with scissors instead of the saw

Square Phillips with can slot and metal tipped tweezers

Blue scales .... must have been an advertising knife as there is no shield at all

I will take some pics tonight

[Huntsman]

This knife was a special run for a paper manufacturer located in Nebikon, Lucerne called Pavag AG. Pavag stands for "Papier Verarbeitungs AG", so the full company name was, curiously, "Papier Verarbeitungs AG AG" (Paper Processors Inc Inc). Go figure. Anyway, the website of the successor company (Pavag Folien AG) states that Pavag was Switzerland's first paper mill, started in 1926. This explains the tree on the logo and the choice of wood saw over metal file.

Hmmm - Does that mean that the company's name is a mix of French 'Papier' and German 'Verarbeitungs' words 
Strange place Switzerland !!

Nice knife as always JB - Thanks for posting

I love when you post stuff like this!   makes me happy! (maybe a little jealous, but mostly happy).
the Awl looks like the cutting surface is larger than current version,  can you confirm that?  or is it just a trick of the light.

Same here 
I compared the awl cutting surface to one of mine and it does indeed look longer - Early version??

[Steinar]

Hmmm - Does that mean that the company's name is a mix of French 'Papier' and German 'Verarbeitungs' words 
Strange place Switzerland !!

I have no reason to think Switzerland isn't a strange place, but “paper” is “Papier” in German as well.

[Huntsman]

Aha - So it is - Thank you
- It sounds so French !!! And I have forgotten my German - and did not check 

[jazzbass]

I found an odd one at the weekend with scissors instead of the saw

Square Phillips with can slot and metal tipped tweezers

Blue scales .... must have been an advertising knife as there is no shield at all

I will take some pics tonight

Sounds like a Fuchs custom Super Tinker: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=58019.0

[jaydar]

I found an odd one at the weekend with scissors instead of the saw

Square Phillips with can slot and metal tipped tweezers

Blue scales .... must have been an advertising knife as there is no shield at all

I will take some pics tonight

Sounds like a Fuchs custom Super Tinker: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=58019.0

That is exactly what it is you can even make out the faint lines where the logo would have been

[jazzbass]

Sounds like a Fuchs custom Super Tinker: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=58019.0

That is exactly what it is you can even make out the faint lines where the logo would have been

I thought it might be. I have a similar version of this except it's a Climber variant instead of a Super Tinker variant. For the interested (and lazy), I'll copy my post over from Ulli's "Help ID" I linked to above:

These are a couple of special order knives by a company named Robert Fuchs AG located in Schindellegi, Schwyz. From what I gather via google research, Fuchs started as a manufacturer of electrical power equipment in the early 1950s. The founder (Robert Fuchs) later got really into helicopter flying and started his own helicopter flight school/rental company in 1974. These two seemingly unrelated businesses are still part of the Fuchs organization.

The oldest one of these I've seen is a Climber variant with the technician screwdriver from the early 1960s. As is common with a lot of advertising/custom knives from this era, it was made as a part of the Elinox line:



This is an early use of the hot-stamping logo process, and on this knife it has since worn off unlike the one in Ulli's pictures. Like the Pavag knife I posted yesterday, being an early 1960s Elinox line knife, all tools on this knife are unpolished except for the main blade - this includes the scissors, which for some reason I find interesting.

It's not clear how many custom runs they ordered, but Ulli's knife - and I'd guess the one jaydar found as well -  date to c. 1973 and shows that they moved to the Super Tinker variant by then. This variation continued into the 1980s, this time with "Helikopter" added to the scales:



The combination of awl with sewing eye + caplifter with half stop + small "v" logo means this knife was probably made right around 1986.

[jazzbass]

Magnificent!!!!!    Does the Phillips have a can key slot?

It does not. Solid Phillips, unpolished, no file. An educated guess is that when they were manufacturing the Phillips drivers in the 50s and 60s, the process was something like:

1. Cut out rough shape
2. Machine Phillips end
3. Polish
4. Cut File
5. Harden

Victoria drivers went through all 5 steps, Elinox drivers skipped steps 3 and 4.

[Gareth]

I do love it when I see you're got some more unusual SAKs to show us Jazbass.

[enki_ck]

Another great find.

[jaydar]

Not sure what this would be but I am guessing as its an 84mm with scissors it will be a Golfer variant

Main blade small blade scissors and long nail file very solid little knife .... still as found it needs a clean up

[ColoSwiss]

Don't even have that in my notes. Neat find!   

[jazzbass]

Not sure what this would be but I am guessing as its an 84mm with scissors it will be a Golfer variant

Someone posted one of these a while ago - I thought it was either you or Ulli. At any rate, this is one of my favorite knives. In fact, early on in my SAK collecting adventure, I only collected 91mm and 93mm stuff - no 84mm at all. This is the knife that changed my mind. It popped up as a Buy-It-Now on eBay for $20 and I grabbed it because, well, exposed rivets + $20 = OMGhurryupbuybuybuy. After I got it I started to research it and what do you know? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I've never seen it mentioned in a catalog, never saw another one until someone posted here, and now this one. Well, that was enough to get me hooked and started me on my 84mm collection.

I call this one the "Businessman". It's an old name from a 1950s Victorinox catalog, and seems to fit this knife - no can openers, no corkscrews, just cutting tools and a file. All business. As for a model number, anything non-standard (i.e. a Spartan + other things) was assigned a model number as opposed to fitting into a model number "scheme", almost always somewhere in the "24x" range (e.g. Lumberjack = 240k, Gourmet = 248k). The only missing numbers in the 24x range are 241 and 243. My guess is that this is a Model 243k, as the Golfer LNF (this knife with a corkscrew) is a Model 244k. 100% pure unadulterated speculation right there, BTW.

[Flint Hills]

Some really neat old and rare SAKs in here!

This one isn't nearly as cool or rare but SAKwiki does say it's rare. Could you guys give me some info on the Vic Alumnus? I got one from a buddy a while back and I also just bought another that's in good condition. How rare are these?

[detron]

Not sure what this would be but I am guessing as its an 84mm with scissors it will be a Golfer variant

Someone posted one of these a while ago - I thought it was either you or Ulli. At any rate, this is one of my favorite knives. In fact, early on in my SAK collecting adventure, I only collected 91mm and 93mm stuff - no 84mm at all. This is the knife that changed my mind. It popped up as a Buy-It-Now on eBay for $20 and I grabbed it because, well, exposed rivets + $20 = OMGhurryupbuybuybuy. After I got it I started to research it and what do you know? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I've never seen it mentioned in a catalog, never saw another one until someone posted here, and now this one. Well, that was enough to get me hooked and started me on my 84mm collection.

I call this one the "Businessman". It's an old name from a 1950s Victorinox catalog, and seems to fit this knife - no can openers, no corkscrews, just cutting tools and a file. All business. As for a model number, anything non-standard (i.e. a Spartan + other things) was assigned a model number as opposed to fitting into a model number "scheme", almost always somewhere in the "24x" range (e.g. Lumberjack = 240k, Gourmet = 248k). The only missing numbers in the 24x range are 241 and 243. My guess is that this is a Model 243k, as the Golfer LNF (this knife with a corkscrew) is a Model 244k. 100% pure unadulterated speculation right there, BTW.

I love how you explain things,  makes me feel smarter.  I know you have invested a ton of time into building your knowledge base, but I thank you for sharing your knowledge here.
Many others do this as well, don't get me wrong, but thank you very much.

[jazzbass]

Just got this in today: Japanese SurfTool.



This knife is a Japan-only issue that falls in the same weird gray area that the Beretta gun tool I posted earlier in this thread does - is this really a "different" knife? Fundamentally this knife is really just a CyberTool 29 - if you replaced the bits with the set from a CT29, they'd be identical other than the screen printing on the scales.

So what's going on with the bits in this one? Two of the bits - the slotted 4mm/P2 and P0/P1 are standard CyberTool bits found in every CyberTool. However, because this tool is aimed at surfers there are also two special bits. Both are double sided hex - the first is a 2.0mm and 2.5mm, and the other 3/32" and 5/64". Yes - standard size hex bits! USA! USA! Also very interesting, these bits are manufactured very differently versus the standard CT bits. These bits are stainless instead of the standard hardened tool steel, which makes sense if you consider they're to be used in contact with salt water. They also have a groove in the center with a circlip retainer to keep them secure in the bit wrench instead of the typical spring-and-ball type mechanism of the standard bits.

The reason for non-metric sizes are because of the Fin Control System (FCS) of removable fins on surfboards. FCS fins are designed to be easily removed and changed to adjust for different surf condition, different riders, or to repair damaged fins. They attach to the bottom of a surf board and are secured with hex cap (allen) set screws, for which you need a FCS key (hex wrench) to tighten. The standard size for these set screws is 3/32", which is odd when you learn that FCS fins were invented in Australia, not the US. Here's a diagram of how the fins attach to the board - you can see how the set screws put pressure on the side of the fins to keep them in place.

[SAK Guy]

Wow!!! That's cool!!!!!

[detron]

I think that is an awesome SAK.  though my type of surfing does not use stabilizing fins, I still would not mind having one of those SurfTools


My surfing is internet based.   

[Caranthanus]

I think that is an awesome SAK.  though my type of surfing does not use stabilizing fins, I still would not mind having one of those SurfTools


My surfing is internet based.   

+1 

[Reinier]

Cool SAK. I think that SurfTool was still available online a year ago, it may still be. If I remember correctly, it is also available with blue scales.

[gene stoner]

Wenger Premier AKA the SAK Hybrid.

[ColoSwiss]

Here's an interesting knife, a Victorinox Timber Scribe or Race Knife. Has a U-shaped blade that cuts grooves in wood. Used for marking lumber, and wooden crates and barrels.

[jazzbass]

Here's an interesting knife, a Victorinox Timber Scribe or Race Knife. Has a U-shaped blade that cuts grooves in wood. Used for marking lumber, and wooden crates and barrels.

So that's what that tool is! I recently ran across this model here (not my knife or picture). Not sure what the model number is as I couldn't find it in any old catalogs. The can opener and saw indicate that it was either made or (more likely iMO) repaired after the mid 1960s, but what really caught my eye was the timber scribe on the tail pin.

[kosmo]

Here's an interesting knife, a Victorinox Timber Scribe or Race Knife. Has a U-shaped blade that cuts grooves in wood. Used for marking lumber, and wooden crates and barrels.

So that's what that tool is! I recently ran across this model here (not my knife or picture). Not sure what the model number is as I couldn't find it in any old catalogs. The can opener and saw indicate that it was either made or (more likely iMO) repaired after the mid 1960s, but what really caught my eye was the timber scribe on the tail pin.

(Image removed from quote.)

It also reminds me of a hoof cleaning knife for horses hooves.

[ulli]

Those are not the same tools. The first is for timber scribe, the other one for hoof cleaning. The timber scribe tool is only sharp at the front, the hoof cleaner is sharp the whole length. Its  not only made for cleaning, but also for cutting the horn away.

I think the knife you show jazzbass was made by röthlisberger at bärau, there`s a link http://www.messer-knife.ch He is still producing some farmer knives and also some firesteel knives. I`m not sure if he`s using some blades from victorinox directly. Some tools look almost identical, but have some little changes.

[Huntsman]

Now we're getting really unusual !! 

Thanks for all the post guys 

Lovin it - But do I try and get one of these models with the really unusual tools ??

[jazzbass]

Those are not the same tools. The first is for timber scribe, the other one for hoof cleaning. The timber scribe tool is only sharp at the front, the hoof cleaner is sharp the whole length. Its  not only made for cleaning, but also for cutting the horn away.

I think the knife you show jazzbass was made by röthlisberger at bärau, there`s a link http://www.messer-knife.ch He is still producing some farmer knives and also some firesteel knives. I`m not sure if he`s using some blades from victorinox directly. Some tools look almost identical, but have some little changes.

Good info, ulli, thanks! I don't know too much about the the bauermesser line of knives, but I really like them for their unusual tool sets. I resist collecting them because they don't seem to have ever been officially imported into the US, so I'd have to spend a lot of time and money getting them from Europe.

Looking at the messer-knife.ch, I think you're right about where it comes from. The auction I took that picture from didn't have any good shots of the tang stamps on that knife so I couldn't tell if it was an Elsener/Victoria/Victorinox blade or not.

[ulli]

I think I watched the same auction. Maybe there wasn`t any tang stamp at all. The main difference between this knife and a victorinox are the bolsters. The bolster at this knife is made of brass i think, and the bolsters from victorinox are made of nickel-silver I would say. The colour is much different. Another difference is the sacking needle.

Bauernmesser in good shape are also quite difficult to find here. Once there were maybe over 70 different swiss knife makers producing bauernmesser.