Thinking of getting into archery

[Syncop8r]

Hi guys, I have noticed some of you are into archery. I have had the odd shoot at an indoor range that used to be nearby and I'm thinking of taking it up properly.  I'd like to eventually buy a recurve but I don't know which brands are good and which aren't (I may have to buy internationally as there isn't much selection here).
Perhaps I should join a club, there's a couple of around although they're a bit far away. I could work up from lower to higher lbs on their bows rather than having to buy and sell.

Any wise words of advice?

Mark

[Chako]

Do you know if you are right or left eyed dominant? I am a right hander, but am left eye dominant, and hence shoot left handed. Before you buy anything, be sure you know which is your dominant eye.

How do you figure what eye you are dominant. Hold out one hand at arms length and stick out your thumb. Focus on the background but look at your thumb. Now close one eye and open it. Now close the other eye and open it. Your dominant eye is the eye that did not shift the background past your thumb. In other works, it gives you the same view as when you have both your eyes open. Your weak eye will either shift the background right or left.

Why is finding your dominant eye important? When shooting a bow, much like shooting a rifle, you should have both eyes open to give you a good field of vision and still aim accurately. If you aim with your weaker eye, you may run out of windage (side to side) adjustments for example.

Now once you know your dominant eye...happily, with traditional archery, your arm length isn't all that important as it is with compound bows. What is important are several other things.

1. Type of bow. You may have a horse bow (short ancient style bows), take down recurves or one piece recurvs, longbows (D cross section), and flatbows (rectengular cross section). There are also types of limb geometries, but you don't need to get into that right away.

2. Whatever you get, be sure to match the arrows to the bow.

3. Type of arrow rest. You can go all traditional and shoot off the riser. You can get even older style and shoot off the hand as with many of those horse bows. You can also get all teched out and buy an arrow rest that is adjustable. Which way you decide to shoot, stick with it for a while to get used to it.

4. Another important thing is your finger guard. You can go with a tab, a glove, a thumb ring, etc. Do not use a mechanical release with any longbow or recurve. Those are made for compounds.

I am going to talk a little more on the types/styles of bows out there,  and you can decide which direction you might want to go in.

1. Horse bows - These are based on ancient styles, mostly from Eastern Europe, but can also include the Asian peninsula and the Middle East. These are short and beautiful works of art. I am myself partial to the looks and shooting feel of the Scythian style bows. Because these are shorter bows, they do tend to take a bit more practice to master it. Stay away from the more expensive ones as they may be made authentic with sinew and other natural materials. These are fragile and need to be properly maintained and stored. The wooden ones make great bows.

2. Longbows and Flatbows - These tend to be the traditional English style of archery. They tend to be longer than recurves. Many suffer from a good amount of hand shock when you shoot them. They are very simple and hardy bows. Chances are you will probably get on at a later date if you get the archery bug. These do make good first bows as well. Just be sure to stay away from the higher poundage bows. You can get warbows that are in excess of 100 pounds draw weight.. Flatbows differ in their limb cross section shape. They tend to not give as much hand shock. Selfbows are handmade longbows. These can differ in shape to the stave that was used.

3 Recurves give you very little handshock and are overall very pleasing to shoot. Because they aren't as harsh on the shooter as many longbows, these  tend to be the most popular for beginner archers. Now Recurves have several sub categories.

a. Olympic style recurves- You can deck these metal bodied recurves with sights, stabilizers, etc. These always feature removable limbs so that you can have carbon limbs, wooden limbs, or composite limbs. Each limb will have different characteristics and feel.

b. One piece recurves are simple. Poor choices if your hauling the bow back and forth and that length may be problematic. On the positive side, very simple and usually sturdy.

c. Take down recurves- Much like Olympic style recurves, the limbs come off for storage. You can also order limbs if one or both get damaged. I would get one of these for my first recurve. You see, sometimes, if the bow is stored improperly, there is a defect, or you string the bow badly, you can get limb twist. With a take down, you can order another set of limbs and fix the problem With a once piece, quite often you are out of luck. Some have had good results steaming their wooden limbs back to shape for your information.

Companies I can easily recommend are (in no particular order)
- Martin Archery
- PSE Archery
- Hoyt Archery (popular with Olympic style)
- OMP Archery (popular with schools)

Now for poundage. Most people in the clubs around here tend to shoot 40 pounds for 20 yard target practice. 40 pound bows are great because you can shoot 300+ arrows a day and not feel all that bad at the end of it. Lower poundage will mean higher arrow arcs. Higher poundage will mean more speed and flatter trajectories, but you will feel it. In Canada, most are using 60 pound bows for hunting. 60 pounds is high and not recommended for a beginner. I would suggest a 40 pound bow. You might be surprised at how long that 40 pounder will last you.

Feel free to ask me any question you have on archery. I am more than happy to help you.

[THE_LONGBOW]

Chako sums it up pretty good. I have shot Longbows for 20+ years and before that Recurves.
If I were to add any thing I would say look for a local archery club and go to some of the local shoots.  Talk to some of the shooters most people are willing to give you some advice. Or if you have a store that sells archery equipment they "may" have some one that can help you. The more you learn before you buy the more likely you are to get the right equipment for your needs.
To become proficient with a bow and arrow you must be willing to put in a lot of practice. If you can set up targets in your yard or near your home so you can practice every day you will find your accuracy improving and your confidence will rise.
One other tip when you practice if you are alone video your self shooting. Then watch the video you can learn a lot about your shooting form by doing this. Shooting form is very important, constancy is equally important.

[Grathr]

+1 on everything Chako and THE_LONGBOW said 

I have been shooting mostly traditional, with handmade historical bows and arrow resting on the hand, wich I think is the most fun.


I would like to add the following (please correct me if I say anything wrong):

Recurve bows are , in my experience, easier to learn how to shoot, as they are heaviest to draw at the beginning of the draw, and a little lighter when fully drawn. As opposed to a classic non recruve longbow, that becomes heavier and heavier inch by inch.

I would suggest to go visit a nearby archery club and ask if you can test a few bows before you decide what kind you want to buy. Also learn how to string the different bowtypes correctly. Many bows break because the archer has stringed it wrong. 

If you are thinking about buying a horse bow, I would recomend a Hungarian bowyer called Grozer. His bows are generally quite expencive, but every now and then cheaper bows are put up for sale. (you just have to watch his site and wait. He is a great boywer, but a crappy webdesigner) I have one of his cheaper bows, and it is a delight to shoot. http://www.grozerarchery.com/index_m.htm

[Nhoj]

I should have known Chako also was into bows!

[Chako]

Here are some videos to get you started. There are many more on-line.







Nhoj, I love historical weapons. Archery is an extension of that. 

[Syncop8r]

WOW, thanks for the response guys, especially Chako! 

Yeah, I'm looking at a take-down recurve as
1) they're more common and are what is generally used for target shooting here
2) I have used them a few times already
3) they are a little closer to traditional bows than compounds
4) they pack down small
5) the limbs can be upgraded as I get more experience
6) I can have fun assembling and disassembling it 

When I can afford it I might get a good (maybe metal) riser (that has threaded holes for all the goodies like sights etc which I can upgrade later) and start off with some cheap/low poundage limbs.
There is a supplier for PSE bows here - I had never heard of them and didn't know if they were good or not. I have heard of Martin and Hoyt.
The last time I shot a bow I tried something like a 24lb then a 26lb which I actually found easier, I think because it was longer (I am 6'2"). The draw felt more natural and not so tight at the beginning. I also used a tab.

I think I am right eye dominant - the thumb still moves, but less than with my left eye (which is also getting worse according to my last medical  ). I am also right handed.

I'm currently living out in the country and have plenty of space to practice. There are also three or four gun ranges nearby but I haven't heard of any archery at any of these.

[Chako]

In my club, most compound archers are now shifting to traditional wooden bows simply to get away from all the technical foibles of compounds. Interestingly enough, most shoot bare bow to get away from using sights etc.

Personally, I would get a cheap 40 pound take down recurve made out of wood. Use no sights, but do get the matching arrows with proper feather fletching, and keep it simple for now. Get used to shooting instinctively.

This is the cheapest way to get into a lovely sport...and you will have the knowledge that many an archer who have spent thousands of dollars on fancy equipment are doing the same as you...only it took them longer to get where you are at now.

Here is a little info on arrows for you, because using the right arrows for your bow is very important.

Arrows are made up of several materials.

1. Carbon arrows - most expensive, but in my eyes, the best solution out there. Carbon arrows have the big advantage of straightness. They are also very tough and thus should last longer. There are tons of different manufacturers. In my area, PSE carbon arrows are predominant. Just note that different regions tend to prefer different equipment.

2. Aluminum arrows - Not as common as carbon these days, but I can recall a time when aluminum arrows were king. Cheaper than carbon, but not as durable. They tend to break if you hit things like trees, or bend. They sold a device that could straighten aluminum arrows. It had a gauge on the top and a handle with a plunger. One would insert an arrow and roll it around on ball bearings meanwhile watching the gauge to straighten it out with a series of judicial presses. I hated doing this...and once I went with carbons...there was no turning back. With that said, aluminum arrows are not that bad of a choice.

3. Fiberglass arrows - Heavy and used for fishing...mostly. You can also get very cheap arrows made of fiberglass. Stay well away from this material. Cheap arrows do not make for good archery.

4. Wood arrows- Wood being traditional and all, really sucks as an arrow material. You have to constantly check for cracks, breaks. They also do not keep their straightness for very long. I know a few archers who love wood arrows, but they are constantly rolling the shafts between their fingers straightening their arrows constantly. If you are looking for real traditional, wood can't be beat...but in my opinion, carbon is far far better...and safer to use.

Now there are several materials used for fletching arrows. You see, you can buy arrows several ways. In bundles that are bare, allowing you with the aid of some equipment, to fletch your arrows to your specifications and materials. Or you could buy them already fletched. For starters, get the pre-fletched versions, or have your local archery shop fletch them for you. You can slowly buy fletching jigs later to do them yourself. Fletching arrows isn't all that difficult.

1. Feathers - Feathers are the only thing that should be used with your recurve....or anything that does not use a shoot through rest like what is found on compounds. Feathers come in different sizes and colours. Just remember this simple rule. If you are planning on hunting with this bow, use longer fletches of lets say 4 to 5 inches. They just fly better with broad-heads. For target arrows, you can get away with much smaller feathers. Smaller feathers are advantageous as there is less wind resistance which improves flight.

2. Plastic - Plastic are loved the world over by compound users who hunt. Simply put, plastic fletching does not get affected with rain...something that feathers suffer from. Do not use plastic fletching with traditional gears. Plastic does not bend as well as feathers. Feathers can swish past a riser with little effect. Try that with plastic vains and it won't be a pretty sight.

So, feathers for traditional shooters, plastic for compound shooters. Simple that.

With the type of arrow materials and fletchings out of the way, you also need to know that arrows come from the factory a set length. It is expected that you or the shop you buy them cut them to your proper length.  Seeing that your getting into archery, you should visit the closest archery shop and have them cut them for you. Measurements will be taken of your draw length and rest location. Usually, arrows are cut  2" beyond your draw, but this is not a set rule. Personal preference does play a roll in arrow length. Just be sure that the arrows are not too short, as you can risk shooting your hand if you pull it beyond your arrow rest or riser.

Another thing, the arrows have to have the proper spine for your bow. Spine means the stiffness of the arrow. Your local archery shop should be able to get the right arrows for you. Arrows too stiff are probably too heavy and you won't get good flight out of them. Arrows that are less stiff are in danger of breaking apart and injuring you. Right arrows for your bow will give you the best flight performance.

Another thing and you probably already know this...you should never dry fire a bow. Without the arrow absorbing all that energy, it has nowhere else to go but back into the limbs. This can damage a bow very quickly.

Another tip, for your first bow, do not get anything expensive. OMP equipment is liked by schools here in Canada simply because they make good cheap equipment that is tough enough to withstand teenagers. I suggest you look at their offerings. It is a good jump off point in figuring out what you might want. I do not know if they would ship to Australia...but their equipment is tough and not that expensive.

Bow length is something I also forgot to mention. Longer recurves tend to be more forgiving than shorter ones. If you buy a recurve, quite often, the limbs or the bows will come in different lengths. Seeing that your a tall guy like I am, I would look at the longer limbs. This means also getting the right string length. If you are buying from a shop be it on-line or local, they will take care of you.

Also, get yourself a recurve stringer. Do not string a bow using the old method of steeping into the bow, wrapping a limb around the back of your leg, and push the top limb to string the bow. This is s sure fire way of damaging your limbs over time, and or having the bow take out an eye if it slips. Get a stringer made for the purpose. Best 10 bucks you can spend.

Here is OMP's web site.

http://www.octobermountainproducts.com/

[Syncop8r]

The brands I have seen available here are PSE, Martin, Hoyt, Samick and Sebastien Flute from online shops in other parts of the country. Only hunting bows are available in my city.
Any idea what Sebastien Flute are like?
Are risers and limbs interchangeable between brands?

[Chako]

I can't say as I have no experience with them.

As far as limbs and risers being interchangeable...possibly yes...possibly no.

Most are now making bows with a standard ILF (International Limb Fitting) set up that would allow you to buy different limbs and match them up with different risers. On the other hand, some high end bows tend to still go the proprietary route.

From what little I saw online, it looks like Sebastian Flute limbs follow the ILF standard...but your best bet is to ask the folks who are selling them to be sure the equipment you are looking at will be able to work together.

[Syncop8r]

I found a range not too far away that is only open Sundays. It's actually (normally) an indoor smallbore rifle range. I figured I should just start there using their bows until I can work up to the sort of poundage I will eventually stick with, rather than buying something I will soon outgrow.

This is the first time I have shot in four or five years since the earthquakes took away the place I used to go to. I think we started off at 12m, using a 20lb recurve. I should have taken a photo of my first round for comparison - arrows all over the place! Hardly any on the target, one on the ceiling... 
After about 20 minutes I was getting better and my target was moved to 15m. This is the last round at this distance:


Then my target was moved to 18m:


Photobucket is being a slut and messing with the rotation of the photos. 

The guy running it was very helpful. You can see most of my shots were off to the left - most likely caused by holding the arrow too far away from my face. My thumb was against my face but it was sticking out from my hand.
Hopefully I will have better results next week. I'll probably start with a 20lb then try a 30lb bow.

[Chako]

You are grouping them nicely. 

[zoidberg]

Nice find.
Used to be a place like that in Sydenham or Waltham, don't know if it survived the EQs though.
I'll be keen to shoot some in a few weeks once I've paid some bills.

[Syncop8r]

You are grouping them nicely. 

Thanks, that's something I guess!

Nice find.
Used to be a place like that in Sydenham or Waltham, don't know if it survived the EQs though.
I'll be keen to shoot some in a few weeks once I've paid some bills.

That was AimTru on Mowbray St, where I used to go. I think after the earthquakes they ended up out Ohoka/Mandeville way as a club.
This place is called Full Draw (at Heathcote rifle range) and is dirt cheap - $20 for an hour - but you have to book. I'm booked in for next Sunday at 1pm.

[zoidberg]

I know the building but haven't been in there. How many lanes they running?

[Syncop8r]

Just four. It's tiny intimate.

[Singh]

I make my own bows, and all my recurves are vintage ones from the 1960s. That said, I'd look into an ILF rig. You have unlimited choices in limbs and you can make the bow you want. 

[Syncop8r]

Well, I've been on a 30lb bow for a month or so with mixed results, first trying to get a consistent anchor point (I use my thumb nail on my jaw directly below the corner of my mouth) and today trying to keep my grip on the string consistent.

The range:


One of my better rounds:


Here's a photo from a few weeks back before I started using a finger tab (I aim using one of the black marks above the scale):

[Chako]

Take a look at this...

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1775877

Try a few out to see which fits you better.

When shooting traditional, don't focus so much on the anchor point. Try to focus on the target, and I think, the rest will follow and work itself out for you with practice. Your body will find what fits it, and sometimes, thinking and hunting for an anchor point just gets in the way.

I also like to give the bow a slight cant. This not only ensures that the arrow won't fall or pull off the rest, it also opens your sight picture.

With that said, archery is one of those things that is highly personal. What works for one won't work for the other.

Nice little range. Not much elevation room for low poundage bows to reach their target though.

[Syncop8r]

It's actually a smallbore rifle range and the archery guy uses it on Sundays. I may or may not have hit the black bit hanging from the ceiling... 

I'm pretty happy with my anchor point now, it's just that in the beginning it wasn't in a consistent place. I naturally go to it every time now.

One thing I realised while looking through the article you linked is that when I aim I am looking at the bow and the target, but not the arrow. I don't even really see the arrow. Perhaps I need to change this...

I really want a decent finger tab now, preferably one which keeps my fingers appropriately spaced. But here's the hard part: I don't want a leather one.

[Chako]

I can highly recommend the Saunders Fab Tab if you don't want leather.

[Syncop8r]

Thanks, the nearest thing to it I can find here is the Saunders Pak Tab but I may be able to get the Fab Tab from Australia.

[Chako]

The Pak Tab is I think basically the Fab Tab with more options. 

[pfrsantos]

It's actually a smallbore rifle range and the archery guy uses it on Sundays. I may or may not have hit the black bit hanging from the ceiling... 

I'm pretty happy with my anchor point now, it's just that in the beginning it wasn't in a consistent place. I naturally go to it every time now.

One thing I realised while looking through the article you linked is that when I aim I am looking at the bow and the target, but not the arrow. I don't even really see the arrow. Perhaps I need to change this...

I really want a decent finger tab now, preferably one which keeps my fingers appropriately spaced. But here's the hard part: I don't want a leather one.

Do you mind a fake leather one? You can choose a shape you like and have it made in another material.

[Syncop8r]

Yep, fake is fine - I'm a vegetarian and I'm trying to avoid using leather if possible.

I can only find the Fab Tab in Small or Medium in Australia and from the US is $40USD postage!