Off-Brand Challenge - ETHEREALICER - Böker City Tool / SWIZA D04

[kirk13]

It looks like the scales gave up some material when erasing the pencil lines. That doesn't bode well for long time wear from hands/pockets IMO

That's how erasers work

I like the idea but you would need scales that are easily available and easily replaced.

Sorry Beat, I wasn't referring to it specifically in the function of an eraser (though in that sense it would beat the Business Tool to top spot for overpriced office consumables) but more in respect of general durability. I can see those scales wearing alarmingly quickly if carried/used regularly just from hands and pockets and whatever else happens to be in the pockets....

It doesn't seem to hold much promise for a long working life to me 

I'm doing accelerated aging, by keeping it with my keys and whenever my hand is idle, fiddle with the keys and the knife in my pockets... Did that to the Böker and it held up nicely, now lets see the Swiza...

Yeah, yeah  we believe you 

"No Officer, I wasn't doing that at all, I was just checking if my new pocket knife is wear resistant...."

Probably not going to get away with that one mate 

 

I have honest eyes

Just a pity about the rest of your face

[Etherealicer]

It looks like the scales gave up some material when erasing the pencil lines. That doesn't bode well for long time wear from hands/pockets IMO

That's how erasers work

I like the idea but you would need scales that are easily available and easily replaced.

Sorry Beat, I wasn't referring to it specifically in the function of an eraser (though in that sense it would beat the Business Tool to top spot for overpriced office consumables) but more in respect of general durability. I can see those scales wearing alarmingly quickly if carried/used regularly just from hands and pockets and whatever else happens to be in the pockets....

It doesn't seem to hold much promise for a long working life to me 

I'm doing accelerated aging, by keeping it with my keys and whenever my hand is idle, fiddle with the keys and the knife in my pockets... Did that to the Böker and it held up nicely, now lets see the Swiza...

Yeah, yeah  we believe you 

"No Officer, I wasn't doing that at all, I was just checking if my new pocket knife is wear resistant...."

Probably not going to get away with that one mate 

 

I have honest eyes

Just a pity about the rest of your face

At least people are certain I'm a deuterostome as it is easy to tell the two ends apart by sight / smell  AND sound...

[AimlessWanderer]

It looks like the scales gave up some material when erasing the pencil lines. That doesn't bode well for long time wear from hands/pockets IMO

That's how erasers work

I like the idea but you would need scales that are easily available and easily replaced.

Sorry Beat, I wasn't referring to it specifically in the function of an eraser (though in that sense it would beat the Business Tool to top spot for overpriced office consumables) but more in respect of general durability. I can see those scales wearing alarmingly quickly if carried/used regularly just from hands and pockets and whatever else happens to be in the pockets....

It doesn't seem to hold much promise for a long working life to me 

I'm doing accelerated aging, by keeping it with my keys and whenever my hand is idle, fiddle with the keys and the knife in my pockets... Did that to the Böker and it held up nicely, now lets see the Swiza...

Yeah, yeah  we believe you 

"No Officer, I wasn't doing that at all, I was just checking if my new pocket knife is wear resistant...."

Probably not going to get away with that one mate 

 

I have honest eyes

It's not your eyes they're going to be paying attention to 

[Etherealicer]

It looks like the scales gave up some material when erasing the pencil lines. That doesn't bode well for long time wear from hands/pockets IMO

That's how erasers work

I like the idea but you would need scales that are easily available and easily replaced.

Sorry Beat, I wasn't referring to it specifically in the function of an eraser (though in that sense it would beat the Business Tool to top spot for overpriced office consumables) but more in respect of general durability. I can see those scales wearing alarmingly quickly if carried/used regularly just from hands and pockets and whatever else happens to be in the pockets....

It doesn't seem to hold much promise for a long working life to me 

I'm doing accelerated aging, by keeping it with my keys and whenever my hand is idle, fiddle with the keys and the knife in my pockets... Did that to the Böker and it held up nicely, now lets see the Swiza...

Yeah, yeah  we believe you 

"No Officer, I wasn't doing that at all, I was just checking if my new pocket knife is wear resistant...."

Probably not going to get away with that one mate 

 

I have honest eyes

It's not your eyes they're going to be paying attention to 

Yes, that Spirit RT is an eye-catcher

[Etherealicer]

Wisdom of the Day: Those scales have a great feel to them... I find myself liking them

[Corwyn]

Wisdom of the Day: Those scales have a great feel to them... I find myself liking them

Maybe when Vic buys these guys out too, they'll use the scale materials on the 91 line. 

On a serious note, the scales seem cool (even though they are obviously not dishwasher safe - Vic's softgrip were kind of sucky), the locking system is cool (if it holds in time), I like replacing the short blade with an inline awl (even if a bit shoddy in design), the longer Philips and the tweezers design (even if they have the awful-awful Wenger grip). So a handful of nice ideas - I'd like to see put in something that oozes quality... be it Swiza or something else...

And yes there are also a zillion bad ideas in it, but I complained a lot about this without even handling one so I won't say anything bad until I actually hold one... anyone feel like donating one for... science? 

[Etherealicer]

Under Construction


Here you can see how the scales are attached. The white part has knobs going into the liners (see arrows).


The scales came off easily and were easy to re-attach. Apparently, we have a 4-pin construction. You can also spot the scale attachment points. The white plastic is stiffer and harder, whereas the blue part is rubbery.
So, if the lock button breaks, you can easily replace the scales. Its also super easy, because everything is ONE part, so no fiddling with bits and pieces.


Looking at the construction, I noticed a gap on either side of the blade-spring. The gap is wide enough to push a piece of paper through without problems.


I find the tools sticking out of the frame problematic as it leads to a very uncomfortable grip. Still that might just be me. What I find unforgiving is how badly they use the space...

[Etherealicer]

Wisdom of the Day: Those scales have a great feel to them... I find myself liking them

Maybe when Vic buys these guys out too, they'll use the scale materials on the 91 line. 

On a serious note, the scales seem cool (even though they are obviously not dishwasher safe - Vic's softgrip were kind of sucky), the locking system is cool (if it holds in time), I like replacing the short blade with an inline awl (even if a bit shoddy in design), the longer Philips and the tweezers design (even if they have the awful-awful Wenger grip). So a handful of nice ideas - I'd like to see put in something that oozes quality... be it Swiza or something else...

And yes there are also a zillion bad ideas in it, but I complained a lot about this without even handling one so I won't say anything bad until I actually hold one... anyone feel like donating one for... science? 

Pros
The lock system is cool and scales are easy to replace, I was worried in the beginning but now I think it will hold up and once broken it's easily fixed.
I do like the scales and the frame shape, but wished the tools would not stick out that much.

Cons
That hole in the blade is stupid, you cannot just wipe your blade after food preparation and the like.
The blade did not come sharp.
The back-layer Phillips is very pointy and does not work well on PH2 screws (it is advertised as PH1, but a bit of versatility would be desirable).
Back-spring on the can-opener is too weak

[Mextreme]

Under Construction

(Image removed from quote.)
Here you can see how the scales are attached. The white part has knobs going into the liners (see arrows).

(Image removed from quote.)
The scales came off easily and were easy to re-attach. Apparently, we have a 4-pin construction. You can also spot the scale attachment points. The white plastic is stiffer and harder, whereas the blue part is rubbery.
So, if the lock button breaks, you can easily replace the scales. Its also super easy, because everything is ONE part, so no fiddling with bits and pieces.

(Image removed from quote.)
Looking at the construction, I noticed a gap on either side of the blade-spring. The gap is wide enough to push a piece of paper through without problems.

(Image removed from quote.)
I find the tools sticking out of the frame problematic as it leads to a very uncomfortable grip. Still that might just be me. What I find unforgiving is how badly they use the space...

The ergonomics is a big issue for me. How bad is it when the blade is open? Does the openers cause discomfort? With the blade closed it doesn´t matter much but of course open is a biggie.

About the paper going through I find thats possible on Victorinox as well.

[Etherealicer]

Under Construction

(Image removed from quote.)
Here you can see how the scales are attached. The white part has knobs going into the liners (see arrows).

(Image removed from quote.)
The scales came off easily and were easy to re-attach. Apparently, we have a 4-pin construction. You can also spot the scale attachment points. The white plastic is stiffer and harder, whereas the blue part is rubbery.
So, if the lock button breaks, you can easily replace the scales. Its also super easy, because everything is ONE part, so no fiddling with bits and pieces.

(Image removed from quote.)
Looking at the construction, I noticed a gap on either side of the blade-spring. The gap is wide enough to push a piece of paper through without problems.

(Image removed from quote.)
I find the tools sticking out of the frame problematic as it leads to a very uncomfortable grip. Still that might just be me. What I find unforgiving is how badly they use the space...

The ergonomics is a big issue for me. How bad is it when the blade is open? Does the openers cause discomfort? With the blade closed it doesn´t matter much but of course open is a biggie.

About the paper going through I find thats possible on Victorinox as well.
(Image removed from quote.)

I have only a CT41 with me (stored in my office desk), I cannot push paper through at any layers. Anyway, I put the paper in for visualization, because I'm unsure how well one can see the gap on a picture. Please note, that I can push paper through on both sides of the knife-backspring, so the wider gap is really wide! Because of its width, I noticed it in the first place. Its also something that might be unique to my Swiza and not general.

As for the comfort, for me it's the middle finger that lies uncomfortably on the cap-lifter, when using the blade.

[Etherealicer]

I actually can get 3 layers of regular printing paper in (in the large gap). The folded piece is ripped to show that it is double.

I should probably point out that the blade is a liner-lock it technically does not need a back-spring!
So, this is cosmetic and probably a bit of quality/precision point.

[Mextreme]

I actually can get 3 layers of regular printing paper in (in the large gap). The folded piece is ripped to show that it is double.

Wow, Thats a differnt story than Victorinox. You can barely squeeze a paper in on some layers but that is like ventilation vent. That could accumulate a lot of nasty stuff.

[Etherealicer]

I actually can get 3 layers of regular printing paper in (in the large gap). The folded piece is ripped to show that it is double.

Wow, Thats a differnt story than Victorinox. You can barely squeeze a paper in on some layers but that is like ventilation vent. That could accumulate a lot of nasty stuff.

I should have made a new post instead of editing my previous

We should not forget that the blade is a liner-lock, so the spring is not essential, just reporting what I see
But you are probably right, good space for dirt to get comfortable

[Steinar]

Thanks for the pictures, Etherealicer! Frankly, I don't worry too much about those huge gaps. It means water has a way to get out when washing the knife in a dishwasher, which is one of the more unique features they advertise. Also, it is a good guarantee the backspring isn't so wide it causes bladeplay (which I have seen a couple of times in even rather expensive knives). I'm looking forward to testing a Swiza myself, there are several parts of the design I'm a little skeptical about, but I'll hold off judgement till I have a knife I can fiddle around with.

[Etherealicer]

Thanks for the pictures, Etherealicer! Frankly, I don't worry too much about those huge gaps. It means water has a way to get out when washing the knife in a dishwasher, which is one of the more unique features they advertise. Also, it is a good guarantee the backspring isn't so wide it causes bladeplay (which I have seen a couple of times in even rather expensive knives). I'm looking forward to testing a Swiza myself, there are several parts of the design I'm a little skeptical about, but I'll hold off judgement till I have a knife I can fiddle around with.

Yeah, it will also be interesting to hear an other perspective and have a larger sample group (one knife is statistically irrelevant).

I'm a bit torn. Dislike the way they market themselves (kinda playing at the underdog trying to get free of evil Victorinox) but I do like the scales.
Fun fact: It's the only MT I'm aware off where you can OHO the can-opener, but not the blade

[firiki]

The back-layer Phillips is very pointy and does not work well on PH2 screws (it is advertised as PH1, but a bit of versatility would be desirable).

[/quote]




 

[SAK Guy]

Thank you for doing this review Etherealicer!

[Grathr]

A very thurough review!
Keep up the good work!


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[Etherealicer]

Thanks guys, you are the best

I have it from a reliable source that soon a Swiza model with saw should be available.
Anyway, tonight the Swiza will have to face the dreaded can, afterwards it will be time to sharpen.

[Etherealicer]

Yes, if the Classic can do it, every other knife needs to do it too...
O'm pleasant surprised with the knife today. If the grip were more comfortable I could actually like it


The awl punched holes into that can like nothing else, twisting to make the holes big showed that the awl has a good bite. At this task it performed well.


The blade is at an odd angle, but that did not keep it to cut through that can. Sliced very well, no serious damage to the edge. Overall, another success

[Grathr]

Have you tried opening the tools with gloves on? 


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[Etherealicer]

Have you tried opening the tools with gloves on? 


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Nope but I can try that... let me check...
Windstoppers: yes I can open all the tools, but only by engaging my thumbnail though the fabric. I also can open the main blade on my CT, but it's a bit harder...

Will test other gloves...

[Corwyn]

Have you tried opening the tools with gloves on? 


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

Nope but I can try that... let me check...
Windstoppers: yes I can open all the tools, but only by engaging my thumbnail though the fabric. I also can open the main blade on my CT, but it's a bit harder...

Will test other gloves...

Not sure the CT is a fair comparison, as it's too thick. Maybe try a Spartan/Tinker? 

[Etherealicer]

Have you tried opening the tools with gloves on? 


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

Nope but I can try that... let me check...
Windstoppers: yes I can open all the tools, but only by engaging my thumbnail though the fabric. I also can open the main blade on my CT, but it's a bit harder...

Will test other gloves...

Not sure the CT is a fair comparison, as it's too thick. Maybe try a Spartan/Tinker? 

I will, but I doubt that is a problem with the windstoppers, the only question is, can you get your nail into the nick. For example, I can open the small blade with about 5 tries, I can't open the metal file as it is further in. I actually think on a thinner model it will be easier to open the main blade, as it is easier accessible (remember, on Vics the nail-nick for the main blade is on the inside).

[Etherealicer]

Finally got around to sharpen the Doofer...

Ok, my amateur opinion is that it took more work than it should have.

[Etherealicer]

Have you tried opening the tools with gloves on? 


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

Nope but I can try that... let me check...
Windstoppers: yes I can open all the tools, but only by engaging my thumbnail though the fabric. I also can open the main blade on my CT, but it's a bit harder...

Will test other gloves...

Not sure the CT is a fair comparison, as it's too thick. Maybe try a Spartan/Tinker? 

I will, but I doubt that is a problem with the windstoppers, the only question is, can you get your nail into the nick. For example, I can open the small blade with about 5 tries, I can't open the metal file as it is further in. I actually think on a thinner model it will be easier to open the main blade, as it is easier accessible (remember, on Vics the nail-nick for the main blade is on the inside).

Sidenote: thinner SAKs make it easier.

Ok, with thick welding gloves I could not open the Swiza as the awl prevented it (with the open awl I could manage). These are thick gloves but in fairly good condition, often workgloves are stiffer and less grippy at the finger tip, which will make it even harder.

Conglusion:
Opening the tools on the Swiza is much easier than your traditional SAK, but its not built to be opened with thick working gloves.
There are 3 reasons for that for the easier opening:
- large hole for better grip
- tools are sticking way more out of the grip (an advantage for opening, disadvantage for grip comfort.)
- Weaker back-spring (its a liner-lock after all)

[NetsNJ]

Etherealicer, thanks for the posts.  Nice to the Sviza in action for the first time.  These guys have potential, but it doesn't look like they are there quite yet.

[AimlessWanderer]

Finally got around to sharpen the Doofer...

Ok, my amateur opinion is that it took more work than it should have.

That's because you're not sharpening freehand yet  those gizmos only work well if the factory angle is less than the angle on the stones, otherwise you're not just sharpening, you're reprofiling 

[Etherealicer]

Finally got around to sharpen the Doofer...

Ok, my amateur opinion is that it took more work than it should have.

That's because you're not sharpening freehand yet  those gizmos only work well if the factory angle is less than the angle on the stones, otherwise you're not just sharpening, you're reprofiling 

That is what I figured.

[Grathr]

Have you tried opening the tools with gloves on? 


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

Nope but I can try that... let me check...
Windstoppers: yes I can open all the tools, but only by engaging my thumbnail though the fabric. I also can open the main blade on my CT, but it's a bit harder...

Will test other gloves...

Not sure the CT is a fair comparison, as it's too thick. Maybe try a Spartan/Tinker? 

I will, but I doubt that is a problem with the windstoppers, the only question is, can you get your nail into the nick. For example, I can open the small blade with about 5 tries, I can't open the metal file as it is further in. I actually think on a thinner model it will be easier to open the main blade, as it is easier accessible (remember, on Vics the nail-nick for the main blade is on the inside).

Sidenote: thinner SAKs make it easier.

Ok, with thick welding gloves I could not open the Swiza as the awl prevented it (with the open awl I could manage). These are thick gloves but in fairly good condition, often workgloves are stiffer and less grippy at the finger tip, which will make it even harder.

Conglusion:
Opening the tools on the Swiza is much easier than your traditional SAK, but its not built to be opened with thick working gloves.
There are 3 reasons for that for the easier opening:
- large hole for better grip
- tools are sticking way more out of the grip (an advantage for opening, disadvantage for grip comfort.)
- Weaker back-spring (its a liner-lock after all)

Thanks!
Might be a good choise for skiiers then?
I know I struggle a lot with a SAK and gloves in winter.