Safe way to deal with cat's?

[EM745]

Cats are hunters and it is natural for them to roam.

It's NOT "natural" for them to roam in areas they aren't indigenous to.

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cat/index.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/index.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/states/

[Tarrodemierda]

well.... if id see some one let his dog kill brutally a cat,id let loose my pitbul and let it take care of the animal torturer.
clean kill is ok if the cat is PROOFED to be a homeless.but othervise killing animals for fun or just for being tight minded animal hater,its sadistic,and they should get their head checked before animals arent enough and u climb to the church tower with hunting rifle .

You always seem to say the right thing. I have gotten a mental picture of you as a big tough guy with a good heart and a head that is screwed on straight.

I am old enough to remember the Winter War and what an inspiration the Finnish resistance was to the whole world. I think you are made of the same stuff as those heroes.

It was an Englishman in the 1920s (Eliot Howard) who first formulated the theory that birds sing to establish and defend a territory. No far away expedition to exotic places but just observing in his own backyard with eyes that could see where others could not. This led in time to the recognition that many other species including humans also defend a territory leading to resentment and aggression toward anything that dares to invade that sacred ground.

As an animal lover I welcome any animal that comes onto my property. The skunks dig holes. The moles make tunnels. The deer eat the shrubs. The raccoons trash the bird feeder, and the chipmunks make burrows. The deer mice keep trying to nest in the lawn mower. I would not have it any other way as I feel amply rewarded just to watch them.

I realize that others do not feel as I do. What I would do,is to do what Def suggested, which is to put in a sand box for them to use. At least it would be easier to clean. The cats are probably using your yard because they feel safe there. All animals are at a disadvantage when defecating, so try to find privacy just as we do.

Cats are hunters and it is natural for them to roam. Konrad Lorenze could not bear to restrict his cats even though he realized they would not live as long. He felt that by restricting them they would not be the natural animal he loved. He went on to win a Nobel prize for his animal studies and is known as the father of the science of Ethology. If you would like some insight into human aggression read his book "On Aggression" all derived from his animal studies.

So perhaps Micky D could also win a prize by studying how and why and where cats crap. I think we could all live longer and more peaceful lives by practicing more tolerance toward people and animals.

Richard 

"You always seem to say the right thing. I have gotten a mental picture of you as a big tough guy with a good heart and a head that is screwed on straight.

I am old enough to remember the Winter War and what an inspiration the Finnish resistance was to the whole world. I think you are made of the same stuff as those heroes."

well thank You sir.i donno if youre joking but if not,im taken

i agree that we could all try to understand more,different strokes for different folks,and understand animals situation too.



men are contstantly forgettin about nature &animals,and most of all,we forget that we are animals after all.all of us.the most stupid ever roamed this planet.and most of mens acts aim to make more money and space for us,and we ruin and rape all the natural enviroment thats rounding us,like were being scared of it.and animals take all the suffering,they dont have space to live,and we keep,even here,wondering theres wolwes in our streets at nights,and all we manage to do,is to get this killing spree-attitude,collect the"towns heroes",tens of men hunting it,make it run till it is exhausted and then some"brave"one kills this innocent one,that was only looking for food,from the area where it used to live.and if we can,well follow the wolfs trail to where it came from and kill the rest of the pack,its puppies too,or take em into zoo,to make money from their un natural captivity.its sick man.and cats are mostly some ones pets,and even a small furry fellow like that will make the blood taste on our lips and mind.

get a bow,learn to gut,learn to be quiet,learn to use compass,learn to use all parts of animal u killed,dont kill it for its fur,unless you use it for real need,to protect your self from winter,dont do it to get rich,or for fashion.leave the scope and gun home,give game a change,dont let it suffer.dont kill for fun nor fame,kill for real need.need to live.to feed your family,not the whole town.then its ok.by me.if u care.i do.

i love animals(in a healthy way ),i dont eat any meat from market,only meat that i hunt or fish by myself,its more fair,since if i cant get a fish or rabbit,so what,theres always the vegetarian way.me and my girlfriend both do voluntary work for homeless,sick,old and injured animals,by sponsoring the helping centres/animal shelters get food to animals,to cover medicines and doctors bills for those mistreated innocent creatures.we are constantly giving home to older dogs and cats,or ones gone thru violence by the all mighty human by playing god,or ones gone thru surgery,and help em anyway we can to give them better end of their life or giving home till some kind man offers a stable,checked safe home for them.i dont believe in violence but i will mistreat the person who i see myself,treating animal wrong way,thats about the only thing that pisses me off and makes my blood boil in normal everyday life.and ive been charged for that,never sentenced.after some one kicked the his old hound,i went and did somethin minor compared to that.and few weeks later the animal protecting officers came,took the dog away,gave it a good medical treatment and it lives nearby now,with older lady,happily but mentally scared forever towards male sex.i got charged,but they were dropped off after witness saying that i only protected animal by this ill minded F--k.
we are even now seeing wars going on,killings that are justified by bit faul reasons,killing for money,killing for religion,killing for land,killing for ethnic bases.and now we are even goin to kill animals on the side.even the ones man took as pet a long long time ago.

i am green minded,against fur,and all that super-over selfish consuming attitude,im guilty to that.i wanted to say all this,although its off topic,but just to tell bit more about me,and why i see things the way i see.not to offend anyone in anyway.

 

[kent ct]

Cats are hunters and it is natural for them to roam.

It's NOT "natural" for them to roam in areas they aren't indigenous to.

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cat/index.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/index.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/states/

And what is natural for man?

Richard

[jzmtl]

And what is natural for man?

Richard

To defend his own territory like any animal would do, and not crap in his neighbor's backyard.

[kent ct]

And what is natural for man?

Richard

To defend his own territory like any animal would do, and not crap in his neighbor's backyard.

Exactly, but the cat does not realize it is not his territory. We don't hold children responsible in the same way we do adults.

Richard

[ringzero]

Cats are hunters and it is natural for them to roam.

It's NOT "natural" for them to roam in areas they aren't indigenous to.

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cat/index.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/index.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/states/

I think this is one of those issues without an easy answer.

I've lived in various urban and suburban environs where people commonly allowed their dogs and cats to roam free, especially at night, even though it can create problems.

On the one hand it's in the nature of the beast (cats and dogs) to crave a little bit of freedom, but on the other hand it's hard to justify allowing animals to roam free in the modern urban environment, even at night.

However, in the past I have allowed dogs and cats to roam free late at night.

If a city/town/incorporated area does have laws against dogs and other animals roaming free, then cats shouldn't be exempt as often seems to be the case.  Seems like dogs - even small unaggresive dogs - often get grabbed and hauled off by animal control, but that cats rarely get caught.

.

[max6166]

I don't think people are disagreeing over whether it is wrong for people to let their dogs and cats roam loose in populated areas.

They are disagreeing over whether this then entitles other people to shoot those animals with air rifles or poison them with anti-freeze.

[jzmtl]

And what is natural for man?

Richard

To defend his own territory like any animal would do, and not crap in his neighbor's backyard.

Exactly, but the cat does not realize it is not his territory. We don't hold children responsible in the same way we do adults.

Richard

So they need to be taught, and removed if they cannot be.

btw low powered airgun with bb doesn't even break skin, just hurt a bit.

[ringzero]

I don't think people are disagreeing over whether it is wrong for people to let their dogs and cats roam loose in populated areas.

They are disagreeing over whether this then entitles other people to shoot those animals with air rifles or poison them with anti-freeze.

Seems to me there is some discussion and disagreement over whether cats should be allowed to roam free, due to excessive feline predation of birds, small mammals, lizards, etc.

Poisoning problem cats is probably excessive IMO.

However, I see nothing wrong with pinging recidivist problem cats with a BB gun.  I have done so a few times and it seems to discourage them from returning.  I've also pinged some problem coons and squirrels that were not discouraged by lesser means.

.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Kent, Mikko, excellent post's

[WhichDawg]

Kent, Mikko, excellent post's

is there a singer/avatar with a pitch fork?

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Kent, Mikko, excellent post's

is there a singer/avatar with a pitch fork?

Probably time you made one mate

[jock1]

Have you tried a super soaker with ice water it works for me 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Have you tried a super soaker with ice water it works for me 

I think I'll be investing soon

[eodtech]

We've had a bit of a problem with cat's craping in my back garden , is there a harmless, enviromentally friendly solution to this
I don't want to harm the little bugger's, but I do want to stop them doing it

Get the book  " 25 ways to WOK a cat"   available at Oriental Grocery stores !

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

We've had a bit of a problem with cat's craping in my back garden , is there a harmless, enviromentally friendly solution to this
I don't want to harm the little bugger's, but I do want to stop them doing it

Get the book  " 25 ways to WOK a cat"   available at Oriental Grocery stores !

Congratulation's you've just won the life time ban from Tim's shop award

[kent ct]

Another suggestion would be to get several metal garbage can covers. If you see the cats, then scale the covers onto some cement where they will make a hell of a racket and scare the cats, or maybe just clanging them together might be enough. Trouble is though, they probably come at night when you are not aware of them.

The real problem is irresponsible people just as it is in gun and knife control. Nobody has the right to inflict their pets or kids or beliefs on you without your permission. It's the innocent animals as well as people that suffer.

Richard 

[DaveK]

The real problem is irresponsible people just as it is in gun and knife control. Nobody has the right to inflict their pets or kids or beliefs on you without your permission. It's the innocent animals as well as people that suffer.

Richard 

Thing is - it's very difficult to control where your cat takes a dump, hardly the same as being reckless with a gun 

[ducktapehero]

get a bow,.....leave the scope and gun home,

I disagree. You assume that just because a hunter uses a gun he's not giving the animal a "fair chance". Up until I became disabled I was a hunter and I sometimes used a scope. I never felt any qualms about it and 95% of the time I walked out of the field empty handed, needless to say it was definitely "fair" for them.  And if you're hunting out in the western US where there's a LOT of open space it's only ethical to hunt with a scope. If you're hunting pronghorn antelope for instance you're probably gonna need a scope.

Plus, if having a scope makes it more certain that your shot kills the animal quickly then it's more humane than wounding it and letting it die a slow painful death.

That said I also have a strong dislike for people who "hunt" just for the sake of killing something.

[kent ct]

The real problem is irresponsible people just as it is in gun and knife control. Nobody has the right to inflict their pets or kids or beliefs on you without your permission. It's the innocent animals as well as people that suffer.

Richard 

Thing is - it's very difficult to control where your cat takes a dump, hardly the same as being reckless with a gun 

Agreed, but I was thinking more along the lines of people who just let their pets breed without any thought of others or the welfare of their animals. I have known of several  cats who have become neighborhood pets and are welcomed all over, but I live in a semi-rural area where plots are 1 acre or more, mostly more, so there is really no problem. It's when there is congestion that problems occur. Even then if a neighbor complained to you, you could try to do something like put out a sand box for the cat to go in. Cats like easy digging and if you provide it they probably will use it. I have had cats that asked to come in to use their litter box and then went right out again. The proof is Micky Ds garden. all nicely spaded up, makes a nice latrine. His neighbors don't even need a litter box.

[jzmtl]

The real problem is irresponsible people just as it is in gun and knife control. Nobody has the right to inflict their pets or kids or beliefs on you without your permission. It's the innocent animals as well as people that suffer.

Richard 

Thing is - it's very difficult to control where your cat takes a dump, hardly the same as being reckless with a gun 

Well, don't let your cat go roaming in other people's yard is a good start.

Agreed, but I was thinking more along the lines of people who just let their pets breed without any thought of others or the welfare of their animals. I have known of several  cats who have become neighborhood pets and are welcomed all over, but I live in a semi-rural area where plots are 1 acre or more, mostly more, so there is really no problem.

I live in city where the "yard" is smaller than your living room, so I really hate cats running all over it and digging/pooping everywhere.

[DaveK]

The real problem is irresponsible people just as it is in gun and knife control. Nobody has the right to inflict their pets or kids or beliefs on you without your permission. It's the innocent animals as well as people that suffer.

Richard 

Thing is - it's very difficult to control where your cat takes a dump, hardly the same as being reckless with a gun 

Well, don't let your cat go roaming in other people's yard is a good start.

Hmm - not sure how serious that comment was, but in case you were.... How would you prevent your cat roaming in someone else's yard?

[jzmtl]

By keeping it inside your house, or inside your yard. Dog owners can do that so why not cat owners?

[ducktapehero]

Maybe something on this page will help.

http://www.cat-repellant.info/html/diy-cat-deterrents.htm

[kent ct]

By keeping it inside your house, or inside your yard. Dog owners can do that so why not cat owners?

Living in a city is chock full of annoyances and I can understand why one more is just too much.

Building a cat proof fence is a tall order.

As far as keeping the cat indoors, some cats do fine but others just have too strong a hunting instinct and have to go out to remain healthy. You have probably seen the big cats in zoos that endlessly pace in cramped cages. A poor miserable husk of the magnificent beast it should be. Thankfully most modern zoos give the animals some breathing room. There was a court case some years back where the judge ruled that cats have to roam.

And last, how about the instinct in man that causes so many people to feel an affinity with animals and keep them around as pets? It's world wide and prevalent in all races so must have had a very beneficial effect on the survival of our species. It's my opinion that you and I would not be here today if not for that instinct. Hundreds of thousands of years ago those of our ancestors who had that affinity with animals and studied them made the best hunters and so left more progeny. Fast forward to 10 or 15 thousand years ago and they domesticated both animals and plants making civilization and large scale war possible. That instinct is too strong to fade away very quickly so I am afraid we are both blessed and afflicted with it.

Richard 

[jzmtl]

That's exactly what my buddy's girlfriend's family have done, totally enclosed backyard where their three cats can run around without creating any problem for others in the day, and back inside the house at night. Now that's a responsible cat owner.

To me controlling the cat becomes the responsibility of the owner when they chose to have a cat, just like a dog owner, but if they aren't responsible enough to keep their cat from becoming everyone else's problem, they shouldn't be suprised when others decide to do something about it.

[max6166]

I agree 100% with jzmtl on this point, and I admire his friends for going to the trouble to build that fence.

I also happen to believe that 95% of the people with cats and dogs in the city should not be allowed to have them.

My only beef is when these innocent animals are punished for the actions of their irresponsible, inconsiderate owners - which happens daily on a massive scale which few people realize.

[edap617]

There are millions of cats keep as pets and according to a study, in USA alone there are an estimated 60 million pet cats. The study shows that each year cats kill hundreds of millions of migratory birds. More wildlife killed than any oil spill.

Cats are also responsible for killing millions of small mammals.

[DaveK]

By keeping it inside your house, or inside your yard. Dog owners can do that so why not cat owners?

But keeping a cat in your house would be a cruel act - no? And how would you propose that you keep it in your yard? Staple it to something?

Practically, a dog can't scale an average wall or fence, but a cat can - so what you can do with a dog is somewhat irrelevant.

Anyhoo, the reason I'm posting on this thread in the first place is, as you've probably deduced, I have cats - 3 of them. Our cats don't tend to foul the neighbours gardens as they have access to a litter-box, which they seem to prefer. However, most of the houses nearby also have cats that aren't so choosy, and some seem to have taken to using the beautifully manicured borders of the front garden of guy who lives opposite me. I do sympathise with him, but I really had to laugh last week when he tried his latest thing to deter them....

He had bought one of those things that emits a high-frequency beep that is supposed to deter animals, but shouldn't be audible to humans. There were two problems with it though that I could see:

1) Humans could hear the beep - every 3 seconds - all day - jesus was it annoying;

2) The cat's couldn't care less, and it seemed to attract pigeons

Anyway it appears to have gone now, as I heard his wife arrive home the other day and an argument ensued which we could hear. Seems that she didn't get much sleep the night before "because of that f*****g beeping"

I have visions of him sitting by the front door with a gun, bucket of stones or whatever a la the superintendent in the Clueso films......

[DaveK]

That's exactly what my buddy's girlfriend's family have done, totally enclosed backyard where their three cats can run around without creating any problem for others in the day, and back inside the house at night. Now that's a responsible cat owner.

To me controlling the cat becomes the responsibility of the owner when they chose to have a cat, just like a dog owner, but if they aren't responsible enough to keep their cat from becoming everyone else's problem, they shouldn't be suprised when others decide to do something about it.

It really is quite black and white for you isn't it? Anybody that tries to harm an animal simply because it craps on there garden is breaking the law in this country - and rightly so.

And your definition of "a responsible cat owner" is clearly from someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but your post implies that anybody who doesn't build the kind of fence that they have in prisons is irresponsible and that's quite a broad insult to the vast majority of cat owners who probably couldn't build such a fence as they wouldn't get planning permission for it anyway!

We're talking about an animal doing it's business here - not abducting children. And the animals in question do tend to bury what they do - unlike pigeons....